September 2022 - Squad discussion thread

[Caledonian Craig]

11 minutes ago, bigfingers said:

Our defence just isn’t strong enough to compete with anyone half decent. 

On its day it is. Only problem is that day does not come very often.

[mccaughey85]

14 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

I think on the side of picking players in form you prefer past performances.

I could say "McBurnie" he's in form and you would be perfectly entitled to dismiss that on basis of previous performances. But I think if a player is out of form he can't just be picked based on past performances,unless it's something obvious like McGinn. 

We wouldnt have a squad if we didnt pick guys out of form for their clubs. Unless you want to go down the route of picking guys in the scottish championship or english league 1 or 2.

When picking a squad clarke probably does it one 2 main factors. Are they playing well for club at decent level like epl or championship and have they played well for scotland under his management. Dykes very much gets into this squad based on the second criteria. Hes been fairly solid with important goals and assists for scotland. His club form is poor right now so personally i wouldnt start him but hes well worth his place in the squad and deserves some lengthy sub appearances. I am guessing clarke will probably start him in one of the games given we have three.

Also we would never have any continuity with our squads if we always ditched players when they are off form for their club. It would be a crazy merrygo round of players being picked and dropped every international break which isnt good for the squad imo.

 

[Tartan blood]

2 hours ago, csinclair said:

Can't help but feel this squad feels a bit poor. Ryan Jack is past it and the likes of McLean & Porteous should be nowhere near. Would rather have called up Allan Campbell & Stephen Welsh. 

Disagree. I think it is probably one of the most solid squads we've had. We'd be even stronger if it weren't for a few injuries. Right back especially looks wonderful in comparison to 2020 squads.  

Porteous won't play, so he is kind of irrelevant. And obviously wouldn't be there if Souttar and Cooper were fit.

Yes, one or two players are not in great form, but Clarke is not in the business of calling people up due to purple patches, nor is he going to drop people based on temporary lulls.

[wanderer]

I am looking at the team, and while I do feel there is no many out of form players in there... I really do not know who to replace them with.

We all knew once McLaughlin was going to be in the squad once he was No1 at Rangers.... but just his form over last 2 weeks have made that decision questionable.

But who to replace him with? Ideal world it would have been Zander Clark, but he has been all summer without a club and just through the door at Hearts.

Defence is a worry, and just annoying that John Souttar, after looking like he would be in the team for years to come, is back to square one again.... at least no questions on Patterson now, as he is playing, and Taylor has done well went called upon to replace Robbo.

We know Tierney is the shoo-in, and then its two from Hanley, McKenna, Cooper, Hendry and McT for the other spots.... plus Hickey is very versatile across the whole back.

Porteous is simply there as cover at the bottom of the pile, and to call up someone like Kingsley would have left us very lop-sided on the left-side rather heavy with players.

Looks like it was Fraser v Burke for a recall, and Fraser won... had McBurnie not had his off the field issues hanging over his head just now, his recent form would have most certainly saw him recalled and ahead of Dykes.

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by wanderer

[Kirk]

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

That's harsh.  His commitment is questionable but he's been decent for Scotland.  4 goals in 22 caps for a side like ourselves - including a couple of important goals too - is okay.  The only game I can remember him being especially shite was Russia at home.

I canny stand him, thinks he is better than he is and very rarely plays the final ball he is actually capable of. Not the kind of guy you need in a team that doesn't always see a lot of the ball.

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

McLean is at least playing regularly, unlike Lewis Ferguson, which I guess is why he missed out.  

There's a good player in Ryan Porteous but unfortunately the one who takes the field for Hibs is a nutter!  Surprised Ralston is in there, considering he's not featured for Celtic much this season.

Porteous had the potential to be decent I agree, he just needs to screw the nut at times. He is still quite young I think, hopefully being in a squad with more experienced players can maybe help him. He will be there for the experience with a view to the future rather than to start any games.

[er yir macaroon]

I’m confident that after being comprehensively beaten by Ukraine and Ireland that Clarke will go with exactly the same tactics again in the hope that things turns out different.

[Caledonian Craig]

For me we need to think out of the box and have a more dynamic potential packed squad.

If you look at some areas there are quite clearly journeymen squad filler-type players in the squad who are never going to become a first team regular or make their mark for us. In that category I'd put the likes of Ryan Porteous, Kenny McLean, Jacob Brown and even Ryan Jack.

We need to look to the future. We do have talented players waiting in the wings who have the potential to be more than just squad fillers. Players such as Elliot Anderson, Matthew Craig, Ben Doak and (when fit) Alex Lowry. Their inclusion over the squad filler-types make much more sense.

[mccaughey85]

18 minutes ago, wanderer said:

I am looking at the team, and while I do feel there is no many out of form players in there... I really do not know who to replace them with.

We all knew once McLaughlin was going to be in the squad once he was No1 at Rangers.... but just his form over last 2 weeks have made that decision questionable.

But who to replace him with? Ideal world it would have been Zander Clark, but he has been all summer without a club and just through the door at Hearts.

Defence is a worry, and just annoying that John Souttar, after looking like he would be in the team for years to come, is back to square one again.... at least no questions on Patterson now, as he is playing, and Taylor has done well went called upon to replace Robbo.

We know Tierney is the shoo-in, and then its two from Hanley, McKenna, Cooper, Hendry and McT for the other spots.... plus Hickey is very versatile across the whole back.

Porteous is simply there as cover at the bottom of the pile, and to call up someone like Kingsley would have left us very lop-sided on the left-side rather heavy with players.

Looks like it was Fraser v Burke for a recall, and Fraser won... had McBurnie not had his off the field issues hanging over his head just now, his recent form would have most certainly saw him recalled and ahead of Dykes.

 

Mcburnie was terrible for scotland and doesnt deserve to be called up off the back of three goals in the championship. Fair enough if he scores 8 or 9 in the next few months then he will deserve another chance in the squad but until then its a firm no on him coming back.

[mccaughey85]

Disappointed morgan didnt get called up, we need attacking players with flair in our squad and hes very much in form and looking great. Burke probably should be included as well but i can understand why hes not been picked. He needs to put a few months of good performances together before clarke will consider him again.

[wanderer]

11 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Mcburnie was terrible for scotland and doesnt deserve to be called up off the back of three goals in the championship. Fair enough if he scores 8 or 9 in the next few months then he will deserve another chance in the squad but until then its a firm no on him coming back.

Dykes has been called up on the back of 1 goal in 4 for QPR....

Agree, based on Scotland form alone, McBurnie should not be called up, but Dykes Scotland form has also been terrible for a while now also... comparing the two on current form though, McBurnie certainly pips Dykes. 

[ProudScot]

Some of the guys playing abroad surely deserve a look in; Gauld, Morgan. Maybe Henderson.

Seems a lot of out of form favourites which is no surprise.

Surely not 3 at the back & same ‘tactics’ again this time round…? 🤔 

[Caledonian Craig]

5 minutes ago, wanderer said:

Dykes has been called up on the back of 1 goal in 4 for QPR....

Agree, based on Scotland form alone, McBurnie should not be called up, but Dykes Scotland form has also been terrible for a while now also... comparing the two on current form though, McBurnie certainly pips Dykes. 

Massive difference being Dykes has proven he can do a job and score key goals for us (22 caps 6 goals) whilst McBurnie has proved he can't (16 caps 0 goals).

[GHfaeGTA]

26 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

For me we need to think out of the box and have a more dynamic potential packed squad.

If you look at some areas there are quite clearly journeymen squad filler-type players in the squad who are never going to become a first team regular or make their mark for us. In that category I'd put the likes of Ryan Porteous, Kenny McLean, Jacob Brown and even Ryan Jack.

We need to look to the future. We do have talented players waiting in the wings who have the potential to be more than just squad fillers. Players such as Elliot Anderson, Matthew Craig, Ben Doak and (when fit) Alex Lowry. Their inclusion over the squad filler-types make much more sense.

You can’t seriously suggest picking Craig (Spurs under 19s21s no first team game), Doak (Liverpool under 18s) and Lowry (hardly any 1st team games). Anderson is at least getting some minutes for 1st team and could come into contention if that continues 

[ceudmilefailte]

26 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

For me we need to think out of the box and have a more dynamic potential packed squad.

If you look at some areas there are quite clearly journeymen squad filler-type players in the squad who are never going to become a first team regular or make their mark for us. In that category I'd put the likes of Ryan Porteous, Kenny McLean, Jacob Brown and even Ryan Jack.

We need to look to the future. We do have talented players waiting in the wings who have the potential to be more than just squad fillers. Players such as Elliot Anderson, Matthew Craig, Ben Doak and (when fit) Alex Lowry. Their inclusion over the squad filler-types make much more sense.

100%  this. 

We will end up in a Craig Brown situation with no experienced younger players and a new manager having to call up half the country to find out who's any good. 

[GHfaeGTA]

3 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Some of the guys playing abroad surely deserve a look in; Gauld, Morgan. Maybe Henderson.

Seems a lot of out of form favourites which is no surprise.

Surely not 3 at the back & same ‘tactics’ again this time round…? 🤔 

Agree re Gauld and Morgan but big problem we have these days is total lack of friendlies and so Clarke afraid to call up any ‘newbies’ 

[ceudmilefailte]

4 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Some of the guys playing abroad surely deserve a look in; Gauld, Morgan. Maybe Henderson.

Seems a lot of out of form favourites which is no surprise.

Surely not 3 at the back & same ‘tactics’ again this time round…? 🤔 

Henderson isn't very good. 

[wanderer]

1 minute ago, ProudScot said:

Some of the guys playing abroad surely deserve a look in; Gauld, Morgan. Maybe Henderson.

Seems a lot of out of form favourites which is no surprise.

Surely not 3 at the back & same ‘tactics’ again this time round…? 🤔 

Henderson is playing for a Empoli team who have have yet to win a game, and drawn 4 of their 6 games  (and only big team they have played was Roma, and they lost 2-1), so I do not think he is on form or sticking out enough to justify a call up (Hickey at least was making headlines in Italy that saw him fast tracked).

I think Clarke's fear is a trip to the States would be a waste to watch a player and decide that he is not for him.... yet there is 3 or 4 eligible players in the MLS, and he could easily take a week to go out there and see each one to decide if they are worth it or not).

 

[wanderer]

5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Massive difference being Dykes has proven he can do a job and score key goals for us (22 caps 6 goals) whilst McBurnie has proved he can't (16 caps 0 goals).

Again, that is based on Scotland form alone...

Adams clearly has the shirt at the moment, and its really a case of has Clarke finally leaned that Adams and Dykes do not gel, and that Dykes up top on his own see's us play a lot better than trying to force those two together.

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, GHfaeGTA said:

You can’t seriously suggest picking Craig (Spurs under 19s21s no first team game), Doak (Liverpool under 18s) and Lowry (hardly any 1st team games). Anderson is at least getting some minutes for 1st team and could come into contention if that continues 

Yes I am serious.

Take a look at Wales in recent years. They have quite often included players with next to no experience at club level but that has quickly followed after impressing for Wales. We should be doing the same. Cut out the dead wood squad fillers and introduce youngsters with real potential NOW.

[syecosse]

5 minutes ago, GHfaeGTA said:

Agree re Gauld and Morgan but big problem we have these days is total lack of friendlies and so Clarke afraid to call up any ‘newbies’ 

With the above named and Jack Elliot has been outstanding in the MLS, Dom Hyam excellent in the Champ, also if he had not been injured Fiorini excellent start to loan at Blackpool and best performing u21 player, Anderson on the fringes at Newcastle, I think these are the guys that maybe should start to get a look in now, with the other youngsters hopefully progressing also just hope Clarke starts getting one or two involved soon.

Edited September 13, 2022 by syecosse

[mccaughey85]

10 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

100%  this. 

We will end up in a Craig Brown situation with no experienced younger players and a new manager having to call up half the country to find out who's any good. 

Eh? Theres two 20 year olds, a 21 year old and a 22 year old in that squad. Cant just call up epl youth players for the sake of having young players in the squad.

We also have loads of guys who are 27 and under in the squad.  

This squad is nothing like the old stagnant squads of the late 90s.

Edited September 13, 2022 by mccaughey85

[Caledonian Craig]

18 minutes ago, wanderer said:

Again, that is based on Scotland form alone...

Adams clearly has the shirt at the moment, and its really a case of has Clarke finally leaned that Adams and Dykes do not gel, and that Dykes up top on his own see's us play a lot better than trying to force those two together.

And, for us as Scotland fans, that form is all that matters is it not?

We have had many players win many caps based on club form but have been dog crap for Scotland. We can do without that. I am only interested in their returns and performances for us.

[mccaughey85]

14 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes I am serious.

Take a look at Wales in recent years. They have quite often included players with next to no experience at club level but that has quickly followed after impressing for Wales. We should be doing the same. Cut out the dead wood squad fillers and introduce youngsters with real potential NOW.

Yeh its all very good introducing guys who are on the fringes of an epl first team like anderson but guys like doak and craig shouldnt be in squads just because they play well at u18s level. If guys like burke and morgan cant get in then doak really shouldnt be ahead of them. Burkes scoringand winning pens in the bundesliga and morgan has 14 goals as a winger in the mls. Doak looks great but hes a long way off our squads.

[Caledonian Craig]

15 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Eh? Theres two 20 year olds, a 21 year old and a 22 year old in that squad. Cant just call up epl youth players for the sake of having young players in the squad.

We also have loads of guys who are 27 and under in the squad.  

This squad is nothing like the old stagnant squads of the late 90s.

Like I said it has paid dividends for Wales. There have been a lot of young Wales players integrated into their full squad without league experience of note but have done a job for Wales and impressed and it has seen their league careers take off and so a win-win for all concerned. Are you suggesting it is better to persist with players who are NEVER going to make it for us or make a mark such as McLean, Porteus, Brown and even Jack. They are mere squad fillers with no future.

[Caledonian Craig]

5 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Yeh its all very good introducing guys who are on the fringes of an epl first team like anderson but guys like doak and craig shouldnt be in squads just because they play well at u18s level. If guys like burke and morgan cant get in then doak really shouldnt be ahead of them. Burkes scoringand winning pens in the bundesliga and morgan has 14 goals as a winger in the mls. Doak looks great but hes a long way off our squads.

Doak potential-wise is way above Morgan and Burke as is Craig and is showing that for Spurs at youth Champions League level where I'd bet he is playing against other greatly talented youngsters and impressing.