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September 2022 - Squad discussion thread


romanticscot

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5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

There are players like Neco Williams who was a squad member for Wales and had only played a handful of league games who is now integrated into the squad. There is Ethan Ampadu, Dylan Levitt, Ruben Colwill, Rabbi Matondo, Rhys Norrington-Davies, Brennan Johnson, Daniel James and Harry Wilson and they all got a place in the squad before cracking it at their clubs to any great degree and are now mainstays in the squad.

Harry Wilson and Ethan Ampadu are the only ones that I would say they really apply to (given they both have close to 40 caps each)... Rest not so sure on, as Matondo played a fair amount of games in the Bundesliga, but has hardly endeared himself to the Rangers fans since his move, and is hardly a main stay in the Wales team (21 and only 11 caps....), think you are really scraping the barrel with Norrington-Davies and Daniel James, as both were mainstays in teams playing at Championship Level when they got their debuts (and in James case even get snapped up by Man United a season later and go on to play 50 games)

As I said, yes Wales are probably faster to cap players, but these are players already involved in teams like Swansea and Cardiff City, or have been sent out on loan to the Championship, and have not become main stays in the actual team, when the bulk of the Welsh team are the wrong side of 26.

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16 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Why hasn't he been given 'a fair crack of the whip'? Clarke has had him in enough squads. If he has impressed he'd have got a start or two by now but obviously has not.

Clarke must see something in him, otherwise he would not keep calling him up... but just not at a point where we have had a relaxed enough game that we could put him in without added pressure of the match (this is where UEFA's whole Nations League idea of competitive matches is costing players caps, as managers are finding themselves more reluctant to try out new idea's, as defeat could suddenly mean you cost your place at the next tournament because you relaxed to much in one game.

Also its probably more justified than having Johnny Russell fly in for every game, then feel have to give him a sympathy cap just for showing up.

Edited by wanderer
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1 minute ago, mccaughey85 said:

Thats not really much of a 'fair crack'. It all depends on how well he does for his club as well. Nobodies suggesting he will be a superstar but the idea of replacing him with an epl youth player is daft. Why not call up some scottish championship players or even scottish league1. 

Until a player shows good form at a decent level of football then he shouldnt get called up. U18s epl football is terrible. Even from the clips from youtube you can see its a long way off spl or english chsmpionship.

No it really doesn't all lie in how well players do at club level. Look at how many Scotland players have done great at club level but for Scotland were mince. If a player has potential and is seen as great potential then they should be integrated into the squad. Doak is seen as that and why Liverpool paid a lot of money for a teenager. Craig, also is seen as that and is why he skippers the Tottenham U-19 side in their Champions League. Guaranteed Brown was nowhere near that level at that age.

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Just now, wanderer said:

Clarke must see something in him, otherwise he would not keep calling him up... but just not at a point where we have had a relaxed enough game that we could put him in without added pressure of the match (this is where UEFA's whole Nations League idea of competitive matches is costing players caps, as managers are finding themselves more reluctant to try out new idea's, as defeat could suddenly mean you cost your place at the next tournament because you relaxed to much in one game.

That hasn't stopped him integrating the likes of Patterson, Gilmour and Hickey quickly into the team giving them starts as he spots their potential.

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2 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes I'd have Doak in for Brown. Craig in for Porteous. When fit Lowry in for McLean. Anderson in for Jack.

We will have to agree to disagree on this but one thing I am sure about is that Brown, Porteous, McLean and Jack will never star for us and are destined to be squad fillers.

Thats madness. Even wales wouldnt do that. Nearly all of those guys you listed earlier were either on the fringes of epl first teams or had played championship or league1 football by the time they got called up to welsh squads.

Also you could argue that mclean and jack have starred for us. Ryan jack was excellent in the serbia game. 

I can see the point in maybe getting rid of mclean and jack but not for some epl youth players who have never played any proper football. I could understand if you suggested fiorini and i can maybe undetstand lowry although i think hes injured right now anyways but suggesting guys like doak and craig is just daft.

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3 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Lol those guys were getting gametime at their clubs. They are in no way comparable to doak and craig.

Exactly. The chap has lost the plot. Even Gilmour was starting in the champions league youth league at about 17 but no one was wanting him in the full squad at that time. Skippering an under 19 club team now gets you in the full squad! Absolute nonsense 

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1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

That hasn't stopped him integrating the likes of Patterson, Gilmour and Hickey quickly into the team giving them starts as he spots their potential.

And when you look at our squads these days, its encouraging when you see "*graduate SFA performance school", shows that we are going in the right direction.

I think Stephen Welsh will be in the squad soon enough (and probably would have been in this squad had he been fit), and Anderson will follow (just a case of do England come sniffing first.... which I doubt, but I can see him being called up in coming months)... with Lewis Fiorini not to far behind... 

I would say that is a pretty satisfactory roll out if even 2 of them can get capped in next 6 months or so.

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5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

No it really doesn't all lie in how well players do at club level. Look at how many Scotland players have done great at club level but for Scotland were mince. If a player has potential and is seen as great potential then they should be integrated into the squad. Doak is seen as that and why Liverpool paid a lot of money for a teenager. Craig, also is seen as that and is why he skippers the Tottenham U-19 side in their Champions League. Guaranteed Brown was nowhere near that level at that age.

U19s football. Jesus. Try watching these u18/19s youth games. They are terrible. Its great doak is doing well at that level but fuck me its a long way off championship or even league1 football. Loads of young players look great at that level but never step up. We have had dozens of young players over the last 15 years who never made it to a decent level from epl youth setups. 

Lets wait until doak or craig goes on loan and see how they get on. They need to actually prove they can play at a decent level before we start calljng them up otherwise we might as well call up scottish championship players or league2 in england.

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2 minutes ago, GHfaeGTA said:

Exactly. The chap has lost the plot. Even Gilmour was starting in the champions league youth league at about 17 but no one was wanting him in the full squad at that time. Skippering an under 19 club team now gets you in the full squad! Absolute nonsense 

Yeh i can understand someone like lowry or anderson but guys who are nowhere near first team football shouldnt be called up.

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1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

What??? Doak plays u18s football. He could be at arbroath or northampton town in 4/5years. Loads of youth players look great at 16 and then end up barely making it at professional level. Just look at karamoko dembele or islam feruz or the countless other scottish wonderkids that never made it at a decent level. Same applies with craig.

Speaking of Feruz, he turned 27 the other day!

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9 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

And Jon McLaughlin promptly gets injured in training tonight.

Probably a blessing given how he’s been playing!

Not many options though - will probably be replaced in the squad by McCrorie who’s 3rd choice. Bizarre he hasn’t gone out on loan. 

Edited by ProudScot
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One thing I dont believe Clarke can be criticised for is not moving players on / introducing younger players. In fact its probably his main strength as a Scotland manager.

Look at the number of guys who have came in and done a turn who arent there anymore. Look at the number of younger players who are not only in the squad but have started big matches. Guys like Turnbull and Ferguson are squad regulars now despite not always being the best options in the position. 

Gilmour, Patterson, Hickey, Brown, Ralston etc etc

At International level you have to be very measured. Take Odonnell for example. He did a solid job for Scotland but everybody knew his time would come, however Clarke has kept him in the squad (played him when neccesary) until he was sure that the "potential" right backs were going to fulfil that potential. Now that Patterson and Hickey are playing reguarly at a high level its ok to drop ODonnell and take a risk on somebody like Ralston who many believe wont ever be first choice RB at Celtic and who very well might lose his place to Ramsey further down the line. Drop ODonnell too early and all it would have taken was for Patterson to contunie to not play (as he was last year, Hickey to not play RB (which he only really started doing late last year) or Ralston to lost his place (which happened as soon as others were fit) and suddenly we would have been in a position of going back to Odonnell and trying to somehow install confidence in him that he has the managers trust.

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4 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

Speaking of Feruz, he turned 27 the other day!

I'd love to know whatever happened to him - i imagine he earnt a fortune at Chelsea (in relation to the everyday man) wonder if he spent it all and gone bust - would also love to know if he regrets his attitude and work effort 

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Squad along usual lines but full of players out of form, not playing, Championship diddies etc. 

I get we can’t pick squads on players in form as we would have no players, but wouid be surprised if it’s not three defeats in these games 

Ukraine will take us apart home and away I feel 

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38 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

One thing I dont believe Clarke can be criticised for is not moving players on / introducing younger players. In fact its probably his main strength as a Scotland manager.

Look at the number of guys who have came in and done a turn who arent there anymore. Look at the number of younger players who are not only in the squad but have started big matches. Guys like Turnbull and Ferguson are squad regulars now despite not always being the best options in the position. 

Gilmour, Patterson, Hickey, Brown, Ralston etc etc

At International level you have to be very measured. Take Odonnell for example. He did a solid job for Scotland but everybody knew his time would come, however Clarke has kept him in the squad (played him when neccesary) until he was sure that the "potential" right backs were going to fulfil that potential. Now that Patterson and Hickey are playing reguarly at a high level its ok to drop ODonnell and take a risk on somebody like Ralston who many believe wont ever be first choice RB at Celtic and who very well might lose his place to Ramsey further down the line. Drop ODonnell too early and all it would have taken was for Patterson to contunie to not play (as he was last year, Hickey to not play RB (which he only really started doing late last year) or Ralston to lost his place (which happened as soon as others were fit) and suddenly we would have been in a position of going back to Odonnell and trying to somehow install confidence in him that he has the managers trust.

I really wish Ralston and Welsh would leave Celtic so we can find out what there ceiling is. Both are still young enough to fully develop as players but it won't happen on the Parkhead bench.

I'm a big fan of teenage players joining the highest level clubs that are interested, but if they can't break through after two or three years  they really need to move on.

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16 minutes ago, DAVIDB46 said:

Squad along usual lines but full of players out of form, not playing, Championship diddies etc. 

I get we can’t pick squads on players in form as we would have no players, but wouid be surprised if it’s not three defeats in these games 

Ukraine will take us apart home and away I feel 

If we lose all three matches then clarke should probably get fired or he would certainly be under huge pressure. 

We shouldnt really be losing to such a poor ireland team at home and we should be able to get a draw out of either of the ukraine games.

Who would you pick that should be in clarkes squad?

I am disappointed at morgan and burke not getting in but overall the squad is what i mostly expected. 

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31 minutes ago, DAVIDB46 said:

Squad along usual lines but full of players out of form, not playing, Championship diddies etc. 

I get we can’t pick squads on players in form as we would have no players, but wouid be surprised if it’s not three defeats in these games 

Ukraine will take us apart home and away I feel 

That would be an absolute disgrace if that happened.At least we wouldn't need to question Clarkes squad selections anymore.

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52 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

If we lose all three matches then clarke should probably get fired or he would certainly be under huge pressure. 

We shouldnt really be losing to such a poor ireland team at home and we should be able to get a draw out of either of the ukraine games.

Who would you pick that should be in clarkes squad?

I am disappointed at morgan and burke not getting in but overall the squad is what i mostly expected. 

I get that about Ireland but they will probably feel the same way about us
 

it is tricky as there is no one tearing any trees up that aren’t playing the shankland “form” quickly dieddown I know.

i am happy that the squad has a much younger age now from the days of strachans dads army , but is worrying that the likes of dykes and brown are still included 

Edited by DAVIDB46
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1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

If we lose all three matches then clarke should probably get fired or he would certainly be under huge pressure. 

We shouldnt really be losing to such a poor ireland team at home and we should be able to get a draw out of either of the ukraine games.

Who would you pick that should be in clarkes squad?

I am disappointed at morgan and burke not getting in but overall the squad is what i mostly expected. 

Yes I think Burke could make an impact from the bench. That's how he made an impact with Forest and how he's being used in Germany. Maybe Fraser could have a similar impact as I doubt he will start, maybe Clarke thinks they're too alike in that respect.

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1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

I really wish Ralston and Welsh would leave Celtic so we can find out what there ceiling is. Both are still young enough to fully develop as players but it won't happen on the Parkhead bench.

I'm a big fan of teenage players joining the highest level clubs that are interested, but if they can't break through after two or three years  they really need to move on.

Ralston could really find himself way down the pecking order for RB if Ramsey, Ashby and Devine for example kick on, especially with Patterson and Hickey doing so well. 

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I'm not going to moan about who's in the squad bar Jon McLaughlin, the lad has conceded EIGHT GOALS in TWO MATCHES ffs but he was never getting on the match field anyway as both Gordon and Kelly are way ahead of him I'm the pecking order.

Regarding defence, I think Steve us waiting for friendlies or next Nations League (where he gradually picks new caps in one or 2 squads like he did with Ross Stewart and Jake Brown) so I hope that players like Dominic Hyam are still in his thoughts.

And Regarding the Strikers, I have one question, what has happened regarding Sam Gallagher and Karlan Grant, have they been asked about their feelings on pledging allegiance to us because I recall an article earlier this year which basically stated that Sam was committed and on the verge of a call up yet nothing has happened since?

 

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41 minutes ago, ICT fan Shaun said:

I'm not going to moan about who's in the squad bar Jon McLaughlin, the lad has conceded EIGHT GOALS in TWO MATCHES ffs but he was never getting on the match field anyway as both Gordon and Kelly are way ahead of him I'm the pecking order.

Regarding defence, I think Steve us waiting for friendlies or next Nations League (where he gradually picks new caps in one or 2 squads like he did with Ross Stewart and Jake Brown) so I hope that players like Dominic Hyam are still in his thoughts.

And Regarding the Strikers, I have one question, what has happened regarding Sam Gallagher and Karlan Grant, have they been asked about their feelings on pledging allegiance to us because I recall an article earlier this year which basically stated that Sam was committed and on the verge of a call up yet nothing has happened since?

 

Sam gallagher isnt worth the bother imo. Hes not any better than what we have already. Karlan grant is a natural goalscorer and might be worth a shout but hes also not significantly better than anything we have especially considering stewart has emerged from pretty much nowhere. 

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