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Which geographical area would get partitioned in this ludicrous idea? 

What if the area being partitioned has a portion of nationalists in it? Do they get herded into their own little area?  Do they get forced out?

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59 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Tell that to the no voters then. Most of the polls show that half of scots dont want indy. Also we lost the last referendum 55/45, assuming it wasnt rigged(i have my doubts). Its a simple fact that we have a large unionist population who are native scots and have always been native to here.

Would you prefer a slightly smaller independent scotland with long term future(100 or more years) or a scotland(whole) that rejoins the uk after 10/15 years?

 

Tough titties. For a long time almost half of Scotland has wanted independence and been fobbed off. No sections of Scotland given to us. Unionists can either adapt or remain living in a unionist country outwith Scotland.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Tough titties. For a long time almost half of Scotland has wanted independence and been fobbed off. No sections of Scotland given to us. Unionists can either adapt or remain living in a unionist country outwith Scotland.

Exactly this, going by mccaugheys logic the indy supporters should've been given 45% of the country 

Edited by vanderark14
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2 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Tough titties. For a long time almost half of Scotland has wanted independence and been fobbed off. No sections of Scotland given to us. Unionists can either adapt or remain living in a unionist country outwith 

When was that?

Up until recently only a third of scots wanted independence. Sometimes it was even less than a third. Also the snp were not getting into power in the 70s and 80s, even the 90s werent great for the snp. Its only been since devolution that the snp has really become a force. 

Its only in the last 10 or so years that the polls have shown a real desire for independence.

Also you never answered the question.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Which geographical area would get partitioned in this ludicrous idea? 

What if the area being partitioned has a portion of nationalists in it? Do they get herded into their own little area?  Do they get forced out?

Can you not read through the thread?

My proposal would be a border running from somewhere in ayrshire to just south of edinburgh.

The unionists would be encouraged to move to this newly formed state and nationalists to the new indy scotland. It would leave the indy scotland with potentially a 65/35 split and remove any doubts about our longterm future.

 

Edited by mccaughey85
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4 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

When was that?

Up until recently only a third of scots wanted independence. Sometimes it was even less than a third. Also the snp were not getting into power in the 70s and 80s, even the 90s werent great for the snp. Its only been since devolution that the snp has really become a force. 

Its only in the last 10 or so years that the polls have shown a real desire for independence.

Also you never answered the question.

The last full blown referendum usurps any poll. Last time I looked Yes was 44.7% for independence. And what question was that.

End of the day the referendum is on whole of Scotland with no exceptions so your point is irrelevant. With Brexit did Scotland get to remain in the EU as majority wanted to? No.

 

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11 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Exactly this, going by mccaugheys logic the indy supporters should've been given 45% of the country 

Where have i said that? I have never once suggested splitting the country down the lines of percentages. I have suggested a redrawing of the border to allow us to gain a large independence majority and remove doubt on our longterm future of being independent. The border has changed many times in the past albeit not much in recent history.

 

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4 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Can you not read through thread?

My proposal would be a border running from somewhere in ayrshire to just south of edinburgh.

The unionists would be encouraged to move to this newly formed state and nationalists to the new indy scotland. It would leave the indy scotland with potentially a 65/35 split and remove any doubts about our longterm future.

 

That proposal is abhorrent and goes against everything the referendum is about. 

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4 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

The last full blown referendum usurps any poll. Last time I looked Yes was 44.7% for independence. And what question was that.

End of the day the referendum is on whole of Scotland with no exceptions so your point is irrelevant. With Brexit did Scotland get to remain in the EU as majority wanted to? No.

 

Not sure that helps your point. End of the day we lost the last referendum and its clear that we could easily lose the next one. Those are the facts. Trying to use the last referendum as proof we want independence is simply not true when we clearly lost it 55/45.

Not sure the brexit argument helps you either. Part of the reason scotland is pushing for another referendum is because we got dragged out of the eu. We are effectively doing to the uk what i am suggesting doing to scotland. My suggestion is letting the pro unionists stay in the uk meanwhile we go indy and rejoin the eu. 

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7 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

That proposal is abhorrent and goes against everything the referendum is about. 

So whats the solution because its 50/50 that we win the next referendum. If we lose then thats it for about 20 years or more.

Also even if we do win a narrow result do you think it will just be over and the unionists just mysteriously disappear overnight?

What percentage of scotland is unionist? My reckoning is its easily a third and if thats right then we could be looking at an uncertain future if they all band under a unionist party looking to rejoin the union. 

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Just now, Caledonian Craig said:

You just aren't getting it. If we win it will be like 2014 the losers will have to suck it up with absolutely no annexations or concessions whatsoever. We didn't like it....tough shit. Ditto should we win. 

So what happens if we get a pro unionist party in charge of an independent scotland and they want a referendum on rejoining the uk? Technically they should get one if we are going by the democratic rules that gave us two referendums.

What happens if they win that vote which is a real possibility given our country is pretty evenly split on the subject.

I think you and fair few ppl on here dont get it that we have a huge amount of unionists who aint going anywhere and they will undermine our country should it go independent. We also have ppl who will float between being pro union and pro indy. The idea that the problem goes away as soon as we are indy is not realistic unless we get at least 60 percent in favour of independence.

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

So what happens if we get a pro unionist party in charge of an independent scotland and they want a referendum on rejoining the uk? Technically they should get one if we are going by the democratic rules that gave us two referendums.

What happens if they win that vote which is a real possibility given our country is pretty evenly split on the subject.

I think you and fair few ppl on here dont get it that we have a huge amount of unionists who aint going anywhere and they will undermine our country should it go independent. We also have ppl who will float between being pro union and pro indy. The idea that the problem goes away as soon as we are indy is not realistic unless we get at least 60 percent in favour of independence.

You are looking to cross a bridge many miles in the distance and section off portions of Scotland to appease unionists. Let me tell you this that won't satisfy unionists at all - they want it all. That is the type of people you are looking to appease.

An independent Scotland has to be canny and turn the tables on unionism. Pass bills/laws that makes independence water tight and no turning back for say 100 years. And remember Scotland is seeking the rights of 90% of countries around the world - the right to self govern it's own country. Unionism is far different - a concept from the dark ages that is becoming more obsolete every passing year and is unbecoming in this day and age. We need to be leaving unionists in a similar difficult situation that we are in now where it is impossible to have a referendum unless Westminster says so. After all Scotland belongs to Scots not Britain 

Edited by Caledonian Craig
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1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

Can you not read through the thread?

My proposal would be a border running from somewhere in ayrshire to just south of edinburgh.

The unionists would be encouraged to move to this newly formed state and nationalists to the new indy scotland. It would leave the indy scotland with potentially a 65/35 split and remove any doubts about our longterm future.

 

I missed this part, I would apologise for missing but the suggestion is fucking warped it doesn't warrant an apology

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1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

Where have i said that? I have never once suggested splitting the country down the lines of percentages. I have suggested a redrawing of the border to allow us to gain a large independence majority and remove doubt on our longterm future of being independent. The border has changed many times in the past albeit not much in recent history.

 

ok, going with your logic. Us Indy supporters should have been give a portion of the country after the last referendum because support for independence isn't going away

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5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

You are looking to cross a bridge many miles in the distance and section off portions of Scotland to appease unionists. Let me tell you this that won't satisfy unionists at all - they want it all or nothing. That is the type of people you are looking to appease.

An independent Scotland has to be canny and turn the tables on unionism. Pass bills/laws that makes independence water tight and no turning back for day 100 years. A similar difficult situation to leave unionists in that we are in now where it is impossible to have a referendum unless Westminster says so.

Its not many miles in the distance. Its a situation that could be in the very near future.

What kind of bills/laws are you suggesting?

What do we make independence water tight and how do we prevent another referendum to rejoin.

If a unionist party come to power in scotland in the first 10/15 years of independence then i can nearly guarantee westminster wont say no us rejoining and having another referendum.

 

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4 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

ok, going with your logic. Us Indy supporters should have been give a portion of the country after the last referendum because support for independence isn't going away

No i am not suggesting that but its clear that the independence debate is potentially not going away after we get independence. If you want a situation where we go in and out of the uk then fair enough. Its unlikely we get 60 or more percent in favour which means that unionism is something we will struggle to deal with after independence. 

Do you think the unionists will just fade away overnight?

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9 minutes ago, aaid said:

This is a parody thread, right?

Tbf i have said numerous times that its a far out idea and i dont expect it to ever happen or expect scottish nationalists to like it.

As i said its an option i personally would consider over a newly independent scotland being dragged back into the uk by hardline unionists and ppl disillusioned by independence.

I want the whole of scotland to go independent with a 60+ majority and a secure future as an independent country but the polls consistently show that we are not in that position and its probably unlikely we ever hit 60+ consistently. Therefore we are looking a unpredictable future as an independent country.

Are you happy to go forward with 48 percent of the country not wanting indy and a possibility of going back into the uk in the near future?

 

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12 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

No i am not suggesting that but its clear that the independence debate is potentially not going away after we get independence. If you want a situation where we go in and out of the uk then fair enough. Its unlikely we get 60 or more percent in favour which means that unionism is something we will struggle to deal with after independence. 

Do you think the unionists will just fade away overnight?

Since when was that the only option? you seems to be narrowing down the choices people have just so you can prove a point

Unionists won;t dissapear, the way forward is to show them independence was the right choice not offer them their own part of country. I doubt most unionists would be happy to up sticks and fuck off to the south of the country just because they are not part of the UK, you may get some deluded staunch as fuck morons who would love it but most won;t because its lunacy

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1 minute ago, mccaughey85 said:

Tbf i have said numerous times that its a far out idea and i dont expect it to ever happen or expect scottish nationalists to like it.

As i said its an option i personally would consider over a newly independent scotland being dragged back into the uk by hardline unionists and ppl disillusioned by independence.

I want the whole of scotland to go independent with a 60+ majority and a secure future as an independent country but the polls consistently show that we are not in that position and its probably unlikely we ever hit 60+ consistently. Therefore we are looking a unpredictable future as an independent country.

Are you happy to go forward with 48 percent of the country not wanting indy and a possibility of going back into the uk in the near future?

 

In the UK, 48% of the electorate voted to Remain in the UK.  They’ve now largely shut up about it, other than moaning and complaining and all the British parties now do not advocate rejoining.  That’s Brexit which to date has been an absolute shambles but is now accepted as being unchangeable.

 

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7 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Tbf i have said numerous times that its a far out idea and i dont expect it to ever happen or expect scottish nationalists to like it.

As i said its an option i personally would consider over a newly independent scotland being dragged back into the uk by hardline unionists and ppl disillusioned by independence.

I want the whole of scotland to go independent with a 60+ majority and a secure future as an independent country but the polls consistently show that we are not in that position and its probably unlikely we ever hit 60+ consistently. Therefore we are looking a unpredictable future as an independent country.

Are you happy to go forward with 48 percent of the country not wanting indy and a possibility of going back into the uk in the near future?

 

you are doing it again, these are not the only choices. I would be over the moon if we won with 52% of the vote, at that point its up to indy supporters and the new government to show the no voters they were wrong to vote no by showing them we can thrive as an independent nation

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1 minute ago, aaid said:

In the UK, 48% of the electorate voted to Remain in the UK.  They’ve now largely shut up about it, other than moaning and complaining and all the British parties now do not advocate rejoining.  That’s Brexit which to date has been an absolute shambles but is now accepted as being unchangeable.

 

Brexit is a world away from our situation. We are looking at forming new military's of army, navy and raf. Then we have new passports and embassies to set up in foreign  countries. We have currency situation that could prove tricky if the uk decides to be cunts. Its a huge step for the scottish ppl and if its not done right or if its not an instant success then we are easily looking at a majority wanting back into the uk. Brexit is nothing like scottish independence. We are breaking something much deeper and essentially it comes down more to self identity than just being in a union. 

Failing to recognise this is worrying because i think alot of indy supporters assume its going to be plain sailing even if we get a slim majority. Simply it wont be. Its a situation thats deep rooted and we will struggle with unless we have a big majority in favour of independence.

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9 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

you are doing it again, these are not the only choices. I would be over the moon if we won with 52% of the vote, at that point its up to indy supporters and the new government to show the no voters they were wrong to vote no by showing them we can thrive as an independent nation

So if its not an instant success will you be willing to accept us rejoining the uk if the majority want to?

Theres a real chance that it wont be an instant success. We have huge changes to make and alot could go wrong. Currency is one that worries me, as soon as any problems arise when it comes to money alot of ppl instantly panick. If the uk say there will be no shared currency then suddenly the unionists have a majority again. Thats the problem with making such a huge change with nearly half the country against it. 

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17 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

you are doing it again, these are not the only choices. I would be over the moon if we won with 52% of the vote, at that point its up to indy supporters and the new government to show the no voters they were wrong to vote no by showing them we can thrive as an independent nation

Doing it again? I am giving you simple questions that are easy to answer. They are questions that i am happy to answer myself.

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