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English Prem. Squads Scots


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4 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Used to be a saying "the blood is strong". 

Personally prefer the birth line to the birth location one. 

To me it is engrained into you by culture, friends, settings and familiarity. He has lived in England all of his life, mixed with and made English friends, been brought up during World Cups with English interest and excitement, been introduced into football from a very young age in England and represented England at many junior levels. The only connection is his Scottish mother who by all accounts lives in England so I cannot see her banging the drum too much to get him to play for Scotland. He has been representing England for his whole life at six different levels - that speaks volumes.

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4 hours ago, todd said:

Agreed, the birth place is, in many ways, an irrelevance.  My father was born in Germany when his father was stationed there, 6 months later they moved back to Scotland where he lived out the rest of his life.  How that would've made him eligible for Germany is ridiculous 🙄 

Agreed but Tino Livramento has lived in England all of his life and represented England all of his life.

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28 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

To me it is engrained into you by culture, friends, settings and familiarity. He has lived in England all of his life, mixed with and made English friends, been brought up during World Cups with English interest and excitement, been introduced into football from a very young age in England and represented England at many junior levels. The only connection is his Scottish mother who by all accounts lives in England so I cannot see her banging the drum too much to get him to play for Scotland. He has been representing England for his whole life at six different levels - that speaks volumes.

Bring back good old family values.

If you think Scottish blood is diluted that easily fair enough.

I guess you don't have children.

Edited by ceudmilefailte
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5 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Bring back good old family values.

If you think Scottish blood is diluted that easily fair enough.

I guess you don't have children.

What I think is irrelevant here it is what Tino Livramento thinks that is key. As some speccy twat on TV once used to say: 'The clues are there.'

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1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

What I think is irrelevant here it is what Tino Livramento thinks that is key. As some speccy twat on TV once used to say: 'The clues are there.'

Well if I ever start listening to what teenagers think,I'll let you know.

Like it or not the lads Scottish, he just needs a bit of a kick up the arse to realise that.

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2 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Bring back good old family values.

If you think Scottish blood is diluted that easily fair enough.

I guess you don't have children.

I lived in the Black Country for a bit but moved back. I have a son (who has no interest in football so it's a moot point) but if he had been born in England, lived there his formative years, schooled there etc, if he had been an international level footballer, I could hardly tell him to turn his back on everything in his growing-up environment that had made him and pick Scotland over England. I guess everyone is different, but this pish from folk who chose to leave Scotland and then chose to have a family in England then turning round and telling their kids they're Scottish not English doesn't sit easy with me. After how many generations are the kids allowed to be English?

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6 hours ago, duncan II said:

I lived in the Black Country for a bit but moved back. I have a son (who has no interest in football so it's a moot point) but if he had been born in England, lived there his formative years, schooled there etc, if he had been an international level footballer, I could hardly tell him to turn his back on everything in his growing-up environment that had made him and pick Scotland over England. I guess everyone is different, but this pish from folk who chose to leave Scotland and then chose to have a family in England then turning round and telling their kids they're Scottish not English doesn't sit easy with me. After how many generations are the kids allowed to be English?

Good post with a lot of common sense.

Parents forcing their English born or Canadian born or Australian born kids against their will to feel they are Scottish is not a good idea and is morally wrong. Let the kids figure it out for themselves, as Scott McTominay and Lyndon Dykes did.

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On 6/21/2022 at 8:19 PM, ceudmilefailte said:

Probably never will get a call up but I would say he is better than all our options bar Gordon(who cant carry on for ever}

Lets see how he does next year or any of our keepers do for that matter.

Can't see where your enthusiasm for him comes from apart from the fact we are desperate to find a top class keeper. 

   Steer had a stint as first choice at Villa way back in 2013, the fact that apart from a season at Huddersfield in 2016 & few games on loan at various other lower league clubs he has been a back up keeper ever since would tell me he either isn't very ambitious or isn't very good. 

     Villa have just signed Swedish international Robin Olsen, he will be their 2nd choice keeper so Steer needs to get out of Villa & play some football at a decent level before he is worth even mentioning here. 

   

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15 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Well if I ever start listening to what teenagers think,I'll let you know.

Like it or not the lads Scottish, he just needs a bit of a kick up the arse to realise that.

That is not what his career stats tell us so far:- 

Represented England at six levels. With no representation, or any evidence of interest in representing Scotland. I would not expect any different from someone born in Croydon in London and lived in England all of his life. Heck we have no evidence he has even walked on Scottish soil either. The only connection with Scotland is his mother who lives in England. And lets remember he has the Portugese blood of his father too with his dad, by all accounts nipping his ear to represent Portugal but he has chosen England.

 

Edited by Caledonian Craig
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There are loads of reasons a player may pick a particular nation, most of which we never will know and don't have any right to anyway. David Weir's son Jensen plays for England, for instance, and it is hard to imagine an upbringing outside of Scotland with more clear links to being Scottish/a Scottish footballer than that. Obviously he feels that England is the right choice for him right now - that might change and it might not.

I'd certainly be disappointed if an excellent player decided to play for another nation over ours, but that is for my own selfish reasons. I certainly wouldn't grudge them their choice though.

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14 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

Fine, but it’s not for you to assess his eligibility. 

Where have I done that? All I have done is stated facts with all the evidence we have in front of us. The way of international football rules is now anyway we could open a thread on so many players in world football born outwith Scotland about eligibility to play for Scotland that is how loose it is becoming.

Edited by Caledonian Craig
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  • 4 months later...

Personally, I think its down to how the player feels. My nephews are both born in England. English father, scottish mother. Nobody celebrates a Scotland goal more fervently than they do. You cant make your kids feel Scottish. It happens naturally due to personal experience.

That said Im not a fan of those that choose Scotland to further their professional career because they werent good enough for England, but I can live with it if they are eligible, give their all and improve the team. Che Adams springs immediately to mind.

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Said it before that the simple way to resolve this is that you nominate your nationality (from within the eligibility rules) when you sign your first professional contract at 16.  If you are English and have a Scottish granny at that point but have always wanted to play for Scotland then great, but if you put down England on that form there is no going back when you realise you are not going to cut it for England.

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14 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

Said it before that the simple way to resolve this is that you nominate your nationality (from within the eligibility rules) when you sign your first professional contract at 16.  If you are English and have a Scottish granny at that point but have always wanted to play for Scotland then great, but if you put down England on that form there is no going back when you realise you are not going to cut it for England.

How grounded were you as a 16 year old? Imagine you had to make all your big life choices at 16. What a farce that would turn out to be.

Now

im sure some might say that by 16 you should know what nationality you feel but I know ppl in later life who still feel mixed nationality. Others who felt one thing when younger and as they got older started to get into their roots more etc.

Theres loads of daft wee kids at 16 who love Man City, Barca etc but when they get older start attending local football. Should they not be allowed to switch?

 

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7 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

How grounded were you as a 16 year old? Imagine you had to make all your big life choices at 16. What a farce that would turn out to be.

Now

im sure some might say that by 16 you should know what nationality you feel but I know ppl in later life who still feel mixed nationality. Others who felt one thing when younger and as they got older started to get into their roots more etc.

Theres loads of daft wee kids at 16 who love Man City, Barca etc but when they get older start attending local football. Should they not be allowed to switch?

 


absolutely not.  This is nothing to do with your club side, it’s about nationality.  Yes, I get that is some cases where people have moved about a lot and have parents from different countries they feel affiliation to more than one country, but these cases are small.   At 16 you can make a lot of life choices - it’s up to you with guidance from your parents to make good ones.  The vast majority of people identify their nationality by 16 and would put an end to the sham of folk playing for countries as not good enough for their actual identified nationality.

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57 minutes ago, Malcolm said:


absolutely not.  This is nothing to do with your club side, it’s about nationality.  Yes, I get that is some cases where people have moved about a lot and have parents from different countries they feel affiliation to more than one country, but these cases are small.   At 16 you can make a lot of life choices - it’s up to you with guidance from your parents to make good ones.  The vast majority of people identify their nationality by 16 and would put an end to the sham of folk playing for countries as not good enough for their actual identified nationality.

What you are proposing is about making a huge life decision at 16 that cant be reversed. You are correct, loads of people make life choices at 16, some with the guidance of parents but how many of those end up sticking by those choices for the rest of their lives?

Who is doing the same career they chose if they went to Uni, who thinks the same way about world issues, politics etc etc.

You say that there are people who feel an affinity to more than oje country but those cases are small. Even if thats correct, is it ok that they would have to choose 1 over another at such a young age.

You mention parents, how many 16 year olds make decisions heavily influenced by parents. Its not really what they want but its what their parents tell them. 

I understand why it frustrates you and others but its not actually that big a deal. I disagree with the new rules and think they have gone too far. I think once a competitive game is played then that should be it but its hardly ruining international football.

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13 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

What you are proposing is about making a huge life decision at 16 that cant be reversed. You are correct, loads of people make life choices at 16, some with the guidance of parents but how many of those end up sticking by those choices for the rest of their lives?

Who is doing the same career they chose if they went to Uni, who thinks the same way about world issues, politics etc etc.

You say that there are people who feel an affinity to more than oje country but those cases are small. Even if thats correct, is it ok that they would have to choose 1 over another at such a young age.

You mention parents, how many 16 year olds make decisions heavily influenced by parents. Its not really what they want but its what their parents tell them. 

I understand why it frustrates you and others but its not actually that big a deal. I disagree with the new rules and think they have gone too far. I think once a competitive game is played then that should be it but its hardly ruining international football.

 

yeah, but a competitive game at what age and what level?  You could have a situation where someone is English, supports England all the way through their 20s at major tournaments,hits 30, realises they are never going to make it for England then plays for Scotland.  it’s a nonsense.

a compromise would be nominate at age 21, but if you have played a fixture before then you are committed.


 

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14 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

 

yeah, but a competitive game at what age and what level?  You could have a situation where someone is English, supports England all the way through their 20s at major tournaments,hits 30, realises they are never going to make it for England then plays for Scotland.  it’s a nonsense.

a compromise would be nominate at age 21, but if you have played a fixture before then you are committed.


 

Looking at from another angle is that you have countries like Wales handing out senior caps to 17 year olds to trap them into a decision. It's a good thing that that won't happen as often now. Though, you're right, 21 could be a good cutoff age.

Cummings going to the world cup having played twice for us is hard to swallow.

Edited by Tartan blood
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Just now, Tartan blood said:

Looking at from another angle is that you have countries like Wales handing out senior caps to 17 year olds to trap them into a decision. It's a good thing that won't happen as often now. Though, you're right, 21 could be a good cutoff age.

Cummings going to the world cup having played twice for us is hard to swallow.

I won't be losing any sleep over that wanker Cummings. He'll get found out soon enough.

Playing for two countries is nothing new. Go back nearly ninety years ago and it was happening then.

Barney Battles Jnr represented the USA (1925) and then Scotland (1930). Joe Kennaway represented Canada (1926) and Scotland (1933).

 

 

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44 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

I won't be losing any sleep over that wanker Cummings. He'll get found out soon enough.

Playing for two countries is nothing new. Go back nearly ninety years ago and it was happening then.

Barney Battles Jnr represented the USA (1925) and then Scotland (1930). Joe Kennaway represented Canada (1926) and Scotland (1933).

 

 

Yeah, I'm not saying I wish he was playing for us, just that it is a bit of a farce that he has switched countries. Gauld playing for Canada just because he's lived there long enough will be harder to take.

I'm not against playing for more than 2 countries. Especially in a modern world with globalisation. But obviously there will be the odd person that is exploiting the system.

Edited by Tartan blood
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