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Pretty obvious after the last four games we won't be able to compete with any half decent team if we continue to defend the way we have done.

Armenia could easily have scored more today, shocking finishing let them down.

If it hadn't been for Gordon the Ukraine score could have been a lot worse.

Anyone know how to fix this, or can Tierney do it all on his own.

 

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12 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Pretty obvious after the last four games we won't be able to compete with any half decent team if we continue to defend the way we have done.

Armenia could easily have scored more today, shocking finishing let them down.

If it hadn't been for Gordon the Ukraine score could have been a lot worse.

Anyone know how to fix this, or can Tierney do it all on his own.

 


start by playing defenders in defence?  We need to get to a preferred centre half pairing and play a defensive shield in front of them.

I would start with souttar and McKenna with jack in front.  4-1-4-1 formation.

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3 minutes ago, Malcolm said:


start by playing defenders in defence?  We need to get to a preferred centre half pairing and play a defensive shield in front of them.

I would start with souttar and McKenna with jack in front.  4-1-4-1 formation.

I agree, play a back 4 with a defensive midfielder in front would make us more solid. I’d try a partnership of McKenna and Souttar with Tierney sitting in front of the back 4, would also be interesting to see Allan Campbell or even Lewis Ferguson there. 
Play a flat back 4, with 4 in midfield and McGinn off the Centre Forward and we will make it difficult for teams to play through us.

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It is that effin stubbornness again though from Clarke. 

He is so obsessed with three at the back he even played it with McTominay in the back three and Hendry out of position on the left and you could see how uncomfortable he was there. Why is he so obsessed with it? Even Hutton and Stewart pre-match picked up on it and wanted four at the back. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Just no communication at all between back three. A ball goes over the top and the backline stop and look at one another as if to say who should pick him up? The goal we conceded was embarrassing for Hanley. What a dumpling.

Exactly this, every defender, on an over the top cross, looks at one of his colleagues as if to say, isn't he your man.  Unbelievably bad defending on every level, any half decent team would've had us dead and buried by half time!  We seriously need to sort this shit out

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12 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

It is that effin stubbornness again though from Clarke. 

He is so obsessed with three at the back he even played it with McTominay in the back three and Hendry out of position on the left and you could see how uncomfortable he was there. Why is he so obsessed with it? Even Hutton and Stewart pre-match picked up on it and wanted four at the back. 

 

How are you ever going to play four at the back with a guy who won a watch playing ten games for Sevco in a five and got picked for Scotland, and then got a mega-money move to Everton where he played his 45 minutes in a five against a non-league team and STILL gets picked for Scotland???

Nathan Patterson has never played in a four at the back at top level - and there's a reason for that.

Get serious please.

Edited by Barney Rubble
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4 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

How are you ever going to play four at the back with a guy who won a watch playing ten games for Sevco in a five and got picked for Scotland, and then got a mega-money move to Everton where he played his 45 minutes in a five against a non-league team???

Get serious please.

I think Patterson will turn out to be a top class full back. A few seasons in the Premiership will be the making of him. We will hopefully have Ramsay following up soon to add depth and competition at right back. 
I have faith in Patterson’s ability, he’s got the physique and pace. He’s made the move down South at a relatively early age, this will hopefully lead to him maturing quicker as he’s left his “comfort zone”. 

Edited by Scot1
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1 minute ago, Scot1 said:

I think Patterson will turn out to be a top class full back. A few seasons in the Premiership will be the making of him. We will hopefully have Ramsay following up soon to add depth and competition at right back. 

Patterson could become a top-class full back, and I sincerely hope he does.

But to suggest he can be a defensive right back in a back four right now is nothing short of ludicrous.

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19 minutes ago, Scot1 said:

I agree, play a back 4 with a defensive midfielder in front would make us more solid. I’d try a partnership of McKenna and Souttar with Tierney sitting in front of the back 4, would also be interesting to see Allan Campbell or even Lewis Ferguson there. 
Play a flat back 4, with 4 in midfield and McGinn off the Centre Forward and we will make it difficult for teams to play through us.

A lot will depend on how much game time Souttar gets at Rangers, and how McKenna performs in the Prem. 

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6 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

How are you ever going to play four at the back with a guy who won a watch playing ten games for Sevco in a five and got picked for Scotland, and then got a mega-money move to Everton where he played his 45 minutes in a five against a non-league team and STILL gets picked for Scotland???

Nathan Patterson has never played in a four at the back at top level - and there's a reason for that.

Get serious please.

Aww come on eh? Right wing-back to right-back is hardly asking the impossible. He is starting from the same position on the pitch and only difference would be more circumspect with kamikaze runs forward. Not rocket science.

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Just now, Barney Rubble said:

Patterson could become a top-class full back, and I sincerely hope he does.

But to suggest he can be a defensive right back in a back four right now is nothing short of ludicrous.

Unfortunately we don’t have any really experienced “veteran” right back available to us at this moment, unless we go back to O’Donnell. But, given the choice, I’d rather play Patterson when available and let him get experience, even in a back 4.

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1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I said it on the other thread the other day. Last four games now that Hanley has played we have conceded nine goals. Last three games we have not played Hanley - three clean sheets.

Worst of it is he's still better than Hendry or Mctominay in defence. Basically had our worst possible back three starting tonight.

If he is going to stick with the back three Cooper should be in the middle, Tierney on the left and someone on the right.

Most of us  agree that if Tierney isn't available we have to play a back four or would it be easier to play that way all the time.

 

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Just now, Caledonian Craig said:

Aww come on eh? Right wing-back to right-back is hardly asking the impossible. He is starting from the same position on the pitch and only difference would be more circumspect with kamikaze runs forward. Not rocket science.

Respectfully Craig, I disagree.

There's a wheen of difference playing full back in a five to playing full back in a four.

 

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2 minutes ago, The Black Bra said:

A lot will depend on how much game time Souttar gets at Rangers, and how McKenna performs in the Prem. 

Both are around 25 and making steps up at a good time. So it would be a good time to try to get them playing as often together as possible at international level and see if a good partnership emerges. I think they’d compliment each other well. 

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2 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

Respectfully Craig, I disagree.

There's a wheen of difference playing full back in a five to playing full back in a four.

 

Especially against the better sides. 

Also don’t see much width in our team apart from the full backs. 

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1 minute ago, Barney Rubble said:

Respectfully Craig, I disagree.

There's a wheen of difference playing full back in a five to playing full back in a four.

 

Be interesting to see how he gets on at Everton this season, pretty sure Lampard will set up with a back 4. 

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2 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Aww come on eh? Right wing-back to right-back is hardly asking the impossible. He is starting from the same position on the pitch and only difference would be more circumspect with kamikaze runs forward. Not rocket science.

I think the true is a lot more different than you may be giving credit for. Most wing backs get in their team due to their athletic and crossing ability, with their defensive attributes coming second - the reverse is true for traditional full backs. If anything, modern wing-backs are more akin to wide midfielders in terms of responsibilities from the early 00s than full backs from the same time.

That's before taking into account the impact of the differing number of centre backs on your positioning and freedom to attack.

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7 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

Patterson could become a top-class full back, and I sincerely hope he does.

But to suggest he can be a defensive right back in a back four right now is nothing short of ludicrous.

Got  to agree,your asking a 20 year old with no top flight experience to play a totally different game.

Despite a lot of right backs playing as right wing back they are not the same position. That is however an argument for moving to a back four and letting our captain play in his natural position.

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4 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Especially against the better sides. 

Also don’t see much width in our team apart from the full backs. 

If the team is set up correctly the full backs will provide enough width. Just means the defensive midfielder and at times other central midfielders covering the gap behind the full back when he’s forward, in an attacking position 

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42 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Aww come on eh? Right wing-back to right-back is hardly asking the impossible. He is starting from the same position on the pitch and only difference would be more circumspect with kamikaze runs forward. Not rocket science.

At this point in time Paterson’s key attributes are going forwards, defensively less so, largely through inexperience although his pace does help him recover.  Having three at the back doesn’t absolve him from defensive work but provides him with a bit more cover.  I’m not suggesting he can never play at right back at a high level, but not now. 

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