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Team for Armenia


daviebee
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This is what I think he'll pick:

Gordon
Ralston McTominay Hanley McKenna Robertson
McGinn Christie McGregor Armstrong
Adams

I wouldn't even have McTominay on the plane.  He gave the ball away 14 times on Saturday apparently and that's just unacceptable.  He needs a spell out, knowing he has to fight to get back in.  There'd be an argument for sending McGinn away on an early holiday as well as he's badly out-of-sorts.

Time, or rather, WAY past time, to blood a new goalie.  Got to say as well that Craig Gordon doesn't exactly fill me with confidence these days.  Great shot-stopper but looks lost at cross balls.  Better get someone used to international fitba now rather than waiting until he's maybe injured for a vital qualifier.  In truth this should already have happened in the 2 recent friendlies.

I'd be building the defence around Souttar and giving Campbell the chance to see what he can do protecting a back 4.  I'd give Turnbull a shot as attacking midfielder as well.  Up front we're absolutely honking and there's no getting away from that.  I've no idea what can be done about that.  Maybe Craig Levein was a visionary after all with his 4-6-0!

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22 minutes ago, daviebee said:

This is what I think he'll pick:

Gordon
Ralston McTominay Hanley McKenna Robertson
McGinn Christie McGregor Armstrong
Adams

I wouldn't even have McTominay on the plane.  He gave the ball away 14 times on Saturday apparently and that's just unacceptable.  He needs a spell out, knowing he has to fight to get back in.  There'd be an argument for sending McGinn away on an early holiday as well as he's badly out-of-sorts.

Time, or rather, WAY past time, to blood a new goalie.  Got to say as well that Craig Gordon doesn't exactly fill me with confidence these days.  Great shot-stopper but looks lost at cross balls.  Better get someone used to international fitba now rather than waiting until he's maybe injured for a vital qualifier.  In truth this should already have happened in the 2 recent friendlies.

I'd be building the defence around Souttar and giving Campbell the chance to see what he can do protecting a back 4.  I'd give Turnbull a shot as attacking midfielder as well.  Up front we're absolutely honking and there's no getting away from that.  I've no idea what can be done about that.  Maybe Craig Levein was a visionary after all with his 4-6-0!

I thought gordon should have been off his line quicker for the second ireland goal. Saying that we dont really have any better options than gordon and hes generally done well for us. I was hoping marshall would stick around a few more years as he could give us an extra year or two until a decent option comes through. 

I would defo give souttar a chance and although cooper wasnt great against ukraine i would still give him a chance ahead of the others in the september games.

These games have really exposed our lack of quality centre backs. It was starting to look slightly better with guys like cooper, hanley and souttar starting to look reasonably solid but these NL games have totally changed what i thought was our first choices and who could definitely be trusted. Both souttar and tierney are the only two i trust at the back now. The rest need to try and earn back a regular place. 

I would also rest adams and give stewart and brown a chance v armenia. They both have had good seasons and deserve a proper chance to show what they can do. 

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1 hour ago, daviebee said:

This is what I think he'll pick:

Gordon
Ralston McTominay Hanley McKenna Robertson
McGinn Christie McGregor Armstrong
Adams

I wouldn't even have McTominay on the plane.  He gave the ball away 14 times on Saturday apparently and that's just unacceptable.  He needs a spell out, knowing he has to fight to get back in.  There'd be an argument for sending McGinn away on an early holiday as well as he's badly out-of-sorts.

Time, or rather, WAY past time, to blood a new goalie.  Got to say as well that Craig Gordon doesn't exactly fill me with confidence these days.  Great shot-stopper but looks lost at cross balls.  Better get someone used to international fitba now rather than waiting until he's maybe injured for a vital qualifier.  In truth this should already have happened in the 2 recent friendlies.

I'd be building the defence around Souttar and giving Campbell the chance to see what he can do protecting a back 4.  I'd give Turnbull a shot as attacking midfielder as well.  Up front we're absolutely honking and there's no getting away from that.  I've no idea what can be done about that.  Maybe Craig Levein was a visionary after all with his 4-6-0!

McKenna limped off on Saturday so I'd be surprised if he is fit. Bin the three central defenders it doesn't work with the personnel available to us and go with a 4-3-3 or a 4-4-1-1.

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11 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

McKenna limped off on Saturday so I'd be surprised if he is fit. Bin the three central defenders it doesn't work with the personnel available to us and go with a 4-3-3 or a 4-4-1-1.

Did he?  Never saw that cos I was hiding behind the couch most of the second half.

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We need to be careful about making changes for changes sake. 

For example the majority said Hickey was horrible at RWB and shouldnt play there again. Ralston comes in and plays well against a very poor Armenia side and all of a sudden he is the fans favourite. He then costs the 1st 2 goals against better opposition. Theres a reason he doesnt play in Celtics big games as he gets found out. 

Similar to McTomminay at the back. Hendry comes in and again has a really poor game when asked to step up.

All our best players are out of form atm. McGinn has been as poor as ive ever seen the last 3 games. Some guys need a rest but we need to not replace them with guys who are clearly nowhere near the standard required to take us forward.

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2 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

We need to be careful about making changes for changes sake. 

For example the majority said Hickey was horrible at RWB and shouldnt play there again. Ralston comes in and plays well against a very poor Armenia side and all of a sudden he is the fans favourite. He then costs the 1st 2 goals against better opposition. Theres a reason he doesnt play in Celtics big games as he gets found out. 

Similar to McTomminay at the back. Hendry comes in and again has a really poor game when asked to step up.

All our best players are out of form atm. McGinn has been as poor as ive ever seen the last 3 games. Some guys need a rest but we need to not replace them with guys who are clearly nowhere near the standard required to take us forward.

Yes I see what you are saying but for example a knackered out-of-form Adams becomes less effective than a fresher Brown or Stewart. If needs be he can be brought on in the second half. Besides Adams prefers to run onto passes in behind the defence. He is not going to get that against Armenia as they defend so deep and in numbers. I did point out on another thread about how so many of our key players came into these matches on a downer psychologically or in a run of poor form that explains a lot. We named a big squad for these matches and we keep claiming we have strength in depth well that should mean giving chances to fresher players hardly used in these matches so far such as Patterson, Souttar, Turnbull, Taylor, Armstrong, Brown and Stewart.

One thing I would take from these games is that it may spell the end for Stephen O'Donnell - unless he has an unmentioned injury. He made the bench for the Ukraine match but unused then not even on the bench for the Armenia and Ireland matches. That will no doubt delight a lot of people on here.

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12 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

We need to be careful about making changes for changes sake. 

For example the majority said Hickey was horrible at RWB and shouldnt play there again. Ralston comes in and plays well against a very poor Armenia side and all of a sudden he is the fans favourite. He then costs the 1st 2 goals against better opposition. Theres a reason he doesnt play in Celtics big games as he gets found out. 

Similar to McTomminay at the back. Hendry comes in and again has a really poor game when asked to step up.

All our best players are out of form atm. McGinn has been as poor as ive ever seen the last 3 games. Some guys need a rest but we need to not replace them with guys who are clearly nowhere near the standard required to take us forward.

I agree.  That said, I don't think rearranging the deck chairs in order to  show that 'something is being done' is not really Clarke's style.

Clarke's 3-5-2 system has served us quite well and the players, up until very recently, looked very comfortable playing it.  If the formation was indeed designed to accomodate Tierney, then in my opinion we have to find an understudy for Tierney. Earmark someone for the role, who can attend future Scotland training camps to learn everything from KT in order to fulfill the role when needed. (Whether that is McKenna, or Hickey, or someone else, I don't care. But there has to be someone surely? )

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1 minute ago, mcguffin said:

I agree.  That said, I don't think rearranging the deck chairs in order to  show that 'something is being done' is not really Clarke's style.

Clarke's 3-5-2 system has served us quite well and the players, up until very recently, looked very comfortable playing it.  If the formation was indeed designed to accomodate Tierney, then in my opinion we have to find an understudy for Tierney. Earmark someone for the role, who can attend future Scotland training camps to learn everything from KT in order to fulfill the role when needed. (Whether that is McKenna, or Hickey, or someone else, I don't care. But there has to be someone surely? )

There is no one of Tierney's quality that can fill his shoes so that formation should then become redundant. Clarke should surely be able to think out of the box and come up with alternative formations. He created that formation to accommodate Tierney so create another one for a team without Tierney and Saturday showed again we don't have top quality central defenders to fill out our side with three of them. Replace one to bolster the midfield and in turn the attack.

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What I reckon he'll pick:

Gordon

Souttar - Hanley - McT

Patterson - McGinn - McGregor - Gilmour - Robertson

Armstrong - Adams

I'd personally change a few things

  • Hanley should be nowhere near the team. For me he was the root cause of a lot of the problems on Saturday.
  • Adams is running on fumes so I'd freshen things up there, it would be good to give Brown/Stewart a full game. 
  • I'd start Hickey as Robertson is knackered, but I recognise the captain isn't getting dropped.
  • Freshen things up in the middle, Turnbull in for Armstrong maybe.
  • Ideally you'd have a 'keeper with a few caps here to give a run but that's a wider problem that should've been addressed earlier in the year.
Edited by Johnnyshaker
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12 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

There is no one of Tierney's quality that can fill his shoes so that formation should then become redundant. Clarke should surely be able to think out of the box and come up with alternative formations. He created that formation to accommodate Tierney so create another one for a team without Tierney and Saturday showed again we don't have top quality central defenders to fill out our side with three of them. Replace one to bolster the midfield and in turn the attack.

I agree that Tierney is a top-quality player. (Maybe even our best player?). But the likes of McKenna and Hickey themselves are quality players, and I would like to see them given a chance in that role in the medium-term. (But I'll admit I'm probably dreaming. Clarke's leeway for experimentation is probably exhausted after Saturday.)

My worry is, if don't have three 'top quality defenders' as you point out (and I fear you may be right) and we instead picked two, who would those two be?

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19 minutes ago, mcguffin said:

I agree.  That said, I don't think rearranging the deck chairs in order to  show that 'something is being done' is not really Clarke's style.

Clarke's 3-5-2 system has served us quite well and the players, up until very recently, looked very comfortable playing it.  If the formation was indeed designed to accomodate Tierney, then in my opinion we have to find an understudy for Tierney. Earmark someone for the role, who can attend future Scotland training camps to learn everything from KT in order to fulfill the role when needed. (Whether that is McKenna, or Hickey, or someone else, I don't care. But there has to be someone surely? )

Totally agree and with what Cal Craig said. No idea how to double qoute.

Kingsley at Hearts has been mentioned. Ive not seen enough of him to rate his quality but he plays in a similar way. 1 thing we have seen from Interntional football is that structure is almost as important as quality so playing a "lesser" player to keep the same shape and style of play might be the way forward. I think most agree that theres no point playing the likes of Cooper or McKenna as an attacking, ball playing LCB.

One thing ive been very disappointed in these games is how slowly our "best" centre backs are at shifting the ball. Hendry and Soutter in particular are labelled as ball playing CBs however even with zero pressure on them they have no idea of the picture around them until they receive the pass, take a touch and look up. Then the pace of the pass they do play is very slow rather than the more crisp passing you see from better players. I wonder if thats partly because of the standard they play in at club football.

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4 minutes ago, mcguffin said:

I agree that Tierney is a top-quality player. (Maybe even our best player?). But the likes of McKenna and Hickey themselves are quality players, and I would like to see them given a chance in that role in the medium-term. (But I'll admit I'm probably dreaming. Clarke's leeway for experimentation is probably exhausted after Saturday.)

My worry is, if don't have three 'top quality defenders' as you point out (and I fear you may be right) and we instead picked two, who would those two be?

McKenna and Hickey's strengths lie elsewhere and it isn't dovetailing attacks with Robertson - no way. 

As for the centre-backs I'd start with (barring injuries) it would be Souttar and McKenna.

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4 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Totally agree and with what Cal Craig said. No idea how to double qoute.

Kingsley at Hearts has been mentioned. Ive not seen enough of him to rate his quality but he plays in a similar way. 1 thing we have seen from Interntional football is that structure is almost as important as quality so playing a "lesser" player to keep the same shape and style of play might be the way forward. I think most agree that theres no point playing the likes of Cooper or McKenna as an attacking, ball playing LCB.

One thing ive been very disappointed in these games is how slowly our "best" centre backs are at shifting the ball. Hendry and Soutter in particular are labelled as ball playing CBs however even with zero pressure on them they have no idea of the picture around them until they receive the pass, take a touch and look up. Then the pace of the pass they do play is very slow rather than the more crisp passing you see from better players. I wonder if thats partly because of the standard they play in at club football.

I've heard good things about Kingsley too, but like you not seen enough of him. Will keep an eye out for him.

And I agree with your other observations re the CBs and the speed they move the ball.

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1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

McKenna and Hickey's strengths lie elsewhere and it isn't dovetailing attacks with Robertson - no way. 

As for the centre-backs I'd start with (barring injuries) it would be Souttar and McKenna.

Yep, Souttar and McKenna could make a pretty good pairing. That could be interesting.

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I think we’ll see a far different approach from Armenia than we did at Hampden, they may actually venture forward this time.

I’d like to see Allan Campbell and somebody like Turnbull to see if a more attacking minded midfielder can make a difference.

Souttar is also a must for me now aswell going forward so long as he’s fit, feel like he may be our most competent defender.

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5 hours ago, daviebee said:

This is what I think he'll pick:

Gordon
Ralston McTominay Hanley McKenna Robertson
McGinn Christie McGregor Armstrong
Adams

I wouldn't even have McTominay on the plane.  He gave the ball away 14 times on Saturday apparently and that's just unacceptable.  He needs a spell out, knowing he has to fight to get back in.  There'd be an argument for sending McGinn away on an early holiday as well as he's badly out-of-sorts.

Time, or rather, WAY past time, to blood a new goalie.  Got to say as well that Craig Gordon doesn't exactly fill me with confidence these days.  Great shot-stopper but looks lost at cross balls.  Better get someone used to international fitba now rather than waiting until he's maybe injured for a vital qualifier.  In truth this should already have happened in the 2 recent friendlies.

I'd be building the defence around Souttar and giving Campbell the chance to see what he can do protecting a back 4.  I'd give Turnbull a shot as attacking midfielder as well.  Up front we're absolutely honking and there's no getting away from that.  I've no idea what can be done about that.  Maybe Craig Levein was a visionary after all with his 4-6-0!

Dealing with cross balls has always been the weakest part of Gordon's game, which is strange for someone of his stature.

Clarke had the ideal opportunity to give another goalie some minutes against Austria or Poland and I'm slightly surprised he didn't. Then again, it is in keeping with some of the other bizarre decisions he's made lately.

3 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

McKenna limped off on Saturday so I'd be surprised if he is fit. Bin the three central defenders it doesn't work with the personnel available to us and go with a 4-3-3 or a 4-4-1-1.

Fingers crossed it was just a knock, especially as our only other left-sided central defender has been allowed to leave the camp to go and get married.

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35 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Get the 3 at the back to fuck.

Change a lot of the team.

Start Patterson.

Play Gilmour cm from the start.

Those are very obvious changes to make. 


gilmour looks terrible just now. I was barely aware he was on the pitch.

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I'd pick the youngest possible player in each position to combat the heat. 

Can't be arsed working out the team, but is as good a method as any. 

If it works try alphabetically for the next game. 

Puts me in a par with our current manager I think. 

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3 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

I'd pick the youngest possible player in each position to combat the heat. 

Can't be arsed working out the team, but is as good a method as any. 

If it works try alphabetically for the next game. 

Puts me in a par with our current manager I think. 

Yeah it’s fairly obvious Clarke doesn’t know his best team and following Ukraine & Ireland debacles, the players aren’t listening to him anymore for whatever reason. 

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                         Gordon

              Soutar.   Hanley.   Hickey

Patterson. McTominay. McGinn   Robbo

                Brown.       Turnbull

                         Stewart

Think there definitely needs to be a rethink of forward players for next squad. Adams and Christie been very poor. We are back to looking so powder puff in attack without Tierney which is crazy in itself. 

Ryan Fraser, Scott Wright, Alex Lowry and Elliott Anderson should be considered. 

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