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Ireland Saturday


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25 minutes ago, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said:

Compared to the time we had the likes of Scott Dobie, Robbie Stockdale, Paul Devlin, yes, this is a much much better generation

Tbf Your pulling out fringe squad members from that era. We had some decent players back then as well but this generations squad are slightly better quality overall.

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Just now, thplinth said:

Gosh who could that be. I am pretty sure he is online right now. (More than one. Both online within the last 20 minutes.)

Thplinth why not send me a PM loaded with all the swearing, threats and insults and get it out of your system ?

I won't report it but I won't reply to it either. We both need to move on like adults eh ?

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Out at home to Ukraine, beat a terrible side Armenia and destroyed by a useless Ireland side, I am sorry but no one even gets pass marks in the team. not sure if they could not be bothered after the season, just not good enough or Clarke fault.

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31 minutes ago, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said:

Yet under Vogts, Burley, Strachan and even Levein, we gave the likes of Germany, Croatia, Spain & the Netherlands (at home) real good games. I don't think Clarke's team could do this

Denmark and england stand out as good performances against top opposition jnder clarke. We have always had good performances against a top nation regardless of manager but clarke has given us a bit of consistency against the lesser teams. 

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4 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Thplinth why not send me a PM loaded with all the swearing, threats and insults and get it out of your system ?

I won't report it but I won't reply to it either. We both need to move on like adults eh ?

Whatever.

Your McLeish posts were particularly vicious and snide I recall. 

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5 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Whatever.

Your McLeish posts were particularly vicious and snide I recall. 

To be fair, McLeish was a mess at time. He seems a million times better now than he was back then. 

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Just now, ParisInAKilt said:

Sure but not sure id describe this team as a talented generation 

Sure, but when you have champions league winners in it, it raises expectations, eh?

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1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Sure but not sure id describe this team as a talented generation 

I'd describe this squad as slightly more talented than the garbage we've been subjected to for two decades.

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24 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I still think we were too quick to get rid of McLeish. He got sacked on the back of that one bad result. Every other manager was given more of a chance than that.

Completely agree. I suspect a lot of the vitriol on here played a part. All the nasty slavering pish about him being an alcoholic was totally over the top. He played to win McLeish, much more aggressive than we are used to. It was high risk but it was a good approach IMHO. This is where I think the fans make it worse... ach well water under the bridge now. 

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Out of interest did Clarke get interviewed and if so we're any excuses made? 

I was happy to let the Mrs ( who is English) switch channels right after the game as we both had suffered enough.

Having said that I am away to take the dog for a walk as England v Italy very uninspiring so far.

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4 minutes ago, thplinth said:

Completely agree. I suspect a lot of the vitriol on here played a part. All the nasty slavering pish about him being an alcoholic was totally over the top. He played to win McLeish, much more aggressive than we are used to. It was high risk but it was a good approach IMHO. This is where I think the fans make it worse... ach well water under the bridge now. 

I was really saddened with his departure the second time round. 2007 was some of the best performances we'd seen in years, the team looked they could take anyone on.

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12 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Anyone else starting to get a nasty feeling we may see someone make a shock retirement or "take a break" from Scotland duty in the next week or so ?

I can't for the life of me explain why, just a bad feeling I've got.

The early signs are there. Clarke can be very defensive in interviews and doesn't like taking criticism or being challenged on decisions. Perhaps he's done as much as he can and just doesn't have the nous to take us to the next level. Marshall retiring and then Cooper and Clark dropping out(would they have arranged weddings at this time if they were both more regular, or in Clark's case just getting a game?) means at least some of that commitment is going. Gilmour and McGinn are not the players they were last year and we definitely need some shooting practice to get more on target. Nothing less than a convincing win will suffice on Tuesday. Not sure where it wil come from but maybe Campbell is worth a shot as a player in form and Brown maybe needs more game time or even a start.

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3 minutes ago, gkm_vancouver said:

The early signs are there. Clarke can be very defensive in interviews and doesn't like taking criticism or being challenged on decisions. Perhaps he's done as much as he can and just doesn't have the nous to take us to the next level. Marshall retiring and then Cooper and Clark dropping out(would they have arranged weddings at this time if they were both more regular, or in Clark's case just getting a game?) means at least some of that commitment is going. Gilmour and McGinn are not the players they were last year and we definitely need some shooting practice to get more on target. Nothing less than a convincing win will suffice on Tuesday. Not sure where it wil come from but maybe Campbell is worth a shot as a player in form and Brown maybe needs more game time or even a start.

Turnbull too 

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I'd put this defeat down to us sticking to a formation that just doesn't work with Tierney missing and refusing to freshen up the team with fresh legs. Look at the starting line-up and we had Gordon, Robertson, McGinn, McGregor and Adams playing their third game in 10 days. Those are players we have relied on heavily in our recent good run. Clarke should have realised they were running on empty (especially Robertson) and changed it up. He could have rested all but Gordon replacing them with Hickey (for Robertson), Armstrong (for McGinn), Gilmour (for McGregor) and Brown or Stewart (for Adams). It may have given us more zest and life in their with fresh legs. Formation-wise it ain't rocket science - Tierney is pivotal to making the three centre-backs work and it is pointless playing it if he is injured as there is no like-for-like replacement. It results in us getting pushed back too deep with midfield getting over-run and out-manned. 

The same thing applies on Tuesday night but I'll bet he still plays the old faithfuls even though they are burnt out. We need change - that should be the motto for Tuesday. Change of formation. Change of personnel. Change of attitude.

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16 minutes ago, robbo cop said:

Out of interest did Clarke get interviewed and if so we're any excuses made? 

I was happy to let the Mrs ( who is English) switch channels right after the game as we both had suffered enough.

Having said that I am away to take the dog for a walk as England v Italy very uninspiring so far.

Robertson was pretty frank TBF and Clarke was a bit less abrupt than usual but would not criticise players or the team and put off detiled analysis until tomorrow. Also  understood booing from fans at the end. Could not explain why we were poorer in all departments. Reckon he's relied on the same plan too often and cannot adjust quick enough when things go wrong - the difference between an average team and a good team......and manager.

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4 minutes ago, gkm_vancouver said:

The early signs are there. Clarke can be very defensive in interviews and doesn't like taking criticism or being challenged on decisions. Perhaps he's done as much as he can and just doesn't have the nous to take us to the next level. Marshall retiring and then Cooper and Clark dropping out(would they have arranged weddings at this time if they were both more regular, or in Clark's case just getting a game?) means at least some of that commitment is going. Gilmour and McGinn are not the players they were last year and we definitely need some shooting practice to get more on target. Nothing less than a convincing win will suffice on Tuesday. Not sure where it wil come from but maybe Campbell is worth a shot as a player in form and Brown maybe needs more game time or even a start.

Agree about giving other lads a chance against Armenia, it's risky but I'd still go for it.

You make two good points:

Marshall's sudden retirement despite turning up for the squad was quite an odd thing to do. Did Marshall perhaps genuinely expect to start one of the games and have an argument with Clarke resulting in a walk out?

Did Clarke and Cooper being granted leave to go and get married cause any kind of discontent among the other players ?

I think that is worth considering.

 

 

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1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Is it a talented generation though? 

Well, it's not exactly Brazil c.1970 but it's the best collection of players we've had in 20 years. I doubt those EPL clubs they play for would fork out such huge wages to substandard players.

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Another thing that pisses me off - Clarke talking up Ireland pre-match. FFS they had not won a Nations League game until tonight yet Clarke was painting them as the invincibles. If that is his style in team talks then is it any wonder we play with such fear.

The merit points Clarke had are all but gone now. I'd say we are back where we were two years ago. Scratching around for hope and positivity but no sign of it around.

They all do that, to be fair. Stephen Kenny described us as a magnificent teame (or words to that effect) before the match, which we clearly aren't!

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1 hour ago, syecosse said:

Out at home to Ukraine, beat a terrible side Armenia and destroyed by a useless Ireland side, I am sorry but no one even gets pass marks in the team. not sure if they could not be bothered after the season, just not good enough or Clarke fault.

Armenia must be wondering how they managed to play so poorly against us. All of a sudden, I'm not looking forward to playing them again.

26 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Agree about giving other lads a chance against Armenia, it's risky but I'd still go for it.

You make two good points:

Marshall's sudden retirement despite turning up for the squad was quite an odd thing to do. Did Marshall perhaps genuinely expect to start one of the games and have an argument with Clarke resulting in a walk out?

Did Clarke and Cooper being granted leave to go and get married cause any kind of discontent among the other players ?

I think that is worth considering.

 

 

It's also a stupid decision, seeing as Scott McKenna limped off injured.

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

It was definitely the worst performance under Clarke but I don't feel as bad after this compared to Kazakhstan. I still think this team has something with this manager

Hopefully it's more like the 2016 defeat to Slovakia, which led to an upturn in performances and results the following year, than Kazakhstan, which was the end of something with a full stop.

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