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Are Wales better than us?


Malcolm
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12 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

At least they were getting a chance at league level. Looking at last year's Premiership the only Scottish strikers in the top 20 goalscorers were Bruce Anderson, Tony Watt, Nicky Clark, Callum Hendry and Eamonn Brophy, with most of them well down the list. When the pool is so small the chances of international quality emerging are much reduced. 

A frontman as good as Tommy Coyne would absolutely walk into our squad now btw.

 

If Steven Fletcher was a couple of years younger he'd walk into this side and improve it instantly for me.

I still think we should be aiming to overtake Wales short to medium term and it's going to be interesting to see how they do in the World Cup plus Euro Qualifying afterwards.  They could have a shocker as England are one of the favourites, USA have a young side with a lot of potential going under the radar a bit and Iran are essentially at home.  On the otherhand England appear to be hounding out the most successful coach they've had in yonks, the US are inexperienced and I know fuck all about Iranian football so they could get out of the group and play someone favourable from group A.

After the WC it could be a bit like us in 2020 where a tricky qualification group speeds their descent in terms of ranking / points. 

The big thing they have over us is belief - Johnson coming through looks a talent but end of the day he scored 16 goals for a team romping up the league.  Brown scored 13 for a team that was absolutely honking for a massive portion of the season but we're already looking for replacements.  I think Johnson has more potential certainly but there's just something in our mindset that is totally off. 

Every country goes through cycles but if a country smaller than yourself keeps being ahead of you, especially one without a domestic league really, there needs to be questions on how they're doing it because luck only goes so far.        

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55 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

A frontman as good as Tommy Coyne would absolutely walk into our squad now btw.

 

Thats a fact.

I only got to see him up close at the end of his career, but the Cobra was a class act.

Him and Dougie Arnott were a great partnership.

 

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21 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

If Steven Fletcher was a couple of years younger he'd walk into this side and improve it instantly for me.

I still think we should be aiming to overtake Wales short to medium term and it's going to be interesting to see how they do in the World Cup plus Euro Qualifying afterwards.  They could have a shocker as England are one of the favourites, USA have a young side with a lot of potential going under the radar a bit and Iran are essentially at home.  On the otherhand England appear to be hounding out the most successful coach they've had in yonks, the US are inexperienced and I know fuck all about Iranian football so they could get out of the group and play someone favourable from group A.

After the WC it could be a bit like us in 2020 where a tricky qualification group speeds their descent in terms of ranking / points. 

The big thing they have over us is belief - Johnson coming through looks a talent but end of the day he scored 16 goals for a team romping up the league.  Brown scored 13 for a team that was absolutely honking for a massive portion of the season but we're already looking for replacements.  I think Johnson has more potential certainly but there's just something in our mindset that is totally off. 

Every country goes through cycles but if a country smaller than yourself keeps being ahead of you, especially one without a domestic league really, there needs to be questions on how they're doing it because luck only goes so far.        

I think Adams is better than Fletcher ever was. They are different types of players, but I would have Adams over Fletcher any day. Neither of them are in the David Healy category though.

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1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

I think Adams is better than Fletcher ever was. They are different types of players, but I would have Adams over Fletcher any day. Neither of them are in the David Healy category though.

To be honest I hadn't paid a lot of attention to him really until he played for Stoke - he was a bit shit for us really but from what he does at Stoke that was probably down to him not running the channels.  Adams is probably the better finisher but Fletcher is a really clever player who'd work well on the odd occassion our football has flowed - granted I'd take Healy though as he could score out of nothing. 

Fletcher suffered a lot from playing as the lone striker and he just isn't very good at being 50 yards up the pitch in isolation.    

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17 hours ago, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said:

Why can't we produce a Robbie Keane😥

I posted something about this previously.  In the last 10-15 years pretty much every country you would consider on a par with us has produced at least one striker who has scored 25+ goals for them. 

Ireland- Keane 68; Wales - Bale 38; N.Ire - Healy 36; Serbia 46; Bosnia - Dzeko 61; Bulgaria - Berbatov 48; Finland - Pukki 35; Slovakia - Hamsik 26; Slovenia - Novakovic 32; Greece - Gekas 24; Poland - Lewandowski 76; Switzerland - Frei 41; Iceland - Siguroson 25; Austria - Arnautavic 33, Sweden - Ibrahimovic 62; Norway - Haaland 20 (and counting); Denmark - Eriksen 38 and the list goes on.

In that same time the most we have managed is Miller on 18 and then  back to Faddy on 15.  It speaks volumes that our current list of forwards consists of 2 Englishmen and an Australian out of 5.  I'm not sure what the answer is but we need to put our focus on to trying to develop good, young forwards as we'll continue to fail if we don't score goals.

 

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6 minutes ago, Fairbairn said:

I posted something about this previously.  In the last 10-15 years pretty much every country you would consider on a par with us has produced at least one striker who has scored 25+ goals for them. 

Ireland- Keane 68; Wales - Bale 38; N.Ire - Healy 36; Serbia 46; Bosnia - Dzeko 61; Bulgaria - Berbatov 48; Finland - Pukki 35; Slovakia - Hamsik 26; Slovenia - Novakovic 32; Greece - Gekas 24; Poland - Lewandowski 76; Switzerland - Frei 41; Iceland - Siguroson 25; Austria - Arnautavic 33, Sweden - Ibrahimovic 62; Norway - Haaland 20 (and counting); Denmark - Eriksen 38 and the list goes on.

In that same time the most we have managed is Miller on 18 and then  back to Faddy on 15.  It speaks volumes that our current list of forwards consists of 2 Englishmen and an Australian out of 5.  I'm not sure what the answer is but we need to put our focus on to trying to develop good, young forwards as we'll continue to fail if we don't score goals.

 


only two players in our entire history have managed this feat!

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7 minutes ago, Fairbairn said:

I posted something about this previously.  In the last 10-15 years pretty much every country you would consider on a par with us has produced at least one striker who has scored 25+ goals for them. 

Ireland- Keane 68; Wales - Bale 38; N.Ire - Healy 36; Serbia 46; Bosnia - Dzeko 61; Bulgaria - Berbatov 48; Finland - Pukki 35; Slovakia - Hamsik 26; Slovenia - Novakovic 32; Greece - Gekas 24; Poland - Lewandowski 76; Switzerland - Frei 41; Iceland - Siguroson 25; Austria - Arnautavic 33, Sweden - Ibrahimovic 62; Norway - Haaland 20 (and counting); Denmark - Eriksen 38 and the list goes on.

In that same time the most we have managed is Miller on 18 and then  back to Faddy on 15.  It speaks volumes that our current list of forwards consists of 2 Englishmen and an Australian out of 5.  I'm not sure what the answer is but we need to put our focus on to trying to develop good, young forwards as we'll continue to fail if we don't score goals.

 

We are a squad with limitations up front. We have managed to get results by being tight at the back and defenders and midfielders chipping in with goals when the strikers have failed. However, when we stop being tight at the back the house of cards come tumbling down as we have seen in recent matches against Austria, Ukraine and Ireland.

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51 minutes ago, Fairbairn said:

I posted something about this previously.  In the last 10-15 years pretty much every country you would consider on a par with us has produced at least one striker who has scored 25+ goals for them. 

Ireland- Keane 68; Wales - Bale 38; N.Ire - Healy 36; Serbia 46; Bosnia - Dzeko 61; Bulgaria - Berbatov 48; Finland - Pukki 35; Slovakia - Hamsik 26; Slovenia - Novakovic 32; Greece - Gekas 24; Poland - Lewandowski 76; Switzerland - Frei 41; Iceland - Siguroson 25; Austria - Arnautavic 33, Sweden - Ibrahimovic 62; Norway - Haaland 20 (and counting); Denmark - Eriksen 38 and the list goes on.

In that same time the most we have managed is Miller on 18 and then  back to Faddy on 15.  It speaks volumes that our current list of forwards consists of 2 Englishmen and an Australian out of 5.  I'm not sure what the answer is but we need to put our focus on to trying to develop good, young forwards as we'll continue to fail if we don't score goals.

 

it doesn't help that when a natural goal scorer does come along, our managers tend not to play them. Saying stuff like "we need our strikers to do more than just score goals". No we fukin don't. If a striker is scoring goals then it shows that the whole team are doing a good job. For example McCoist got a fair chunk of his caps by coming off the bench. Boyd could hardly get a game. Neither were nearly as good as Lewandowski but they might have been as good as Healy if they had been given the chance?

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3 hours ago, Fairbairn said:

I posted something about this previously.  In the last 10-15 years pretty much every country you would consider on a par with us has produced at least one striker who has scored 25+ goals for them. 

Ireland- Keane 68; Wales - Bale 38; N.Ire - Healy 36; Serbia 46; Bosnia - Dzeko 61; Bulgaria - Berbatov 48; Finland - Pukki 35; Slovakia - Hamsik 26; Slovenia - Novakovic 32; Greece - Gekas 24; Poland - Lewandowski 76; Switzerland - Frei 41; Iceland - Siguroson 25; Austria - Arnautavic 33, Sweden - Ibrahimovic 62; Norway - Haaland 20 (and counting); Denmark - Eriksen 38 and the list goes on.

In that same time the most we have managed is Miller on 18 and then  back to Faddy on 15.  It speaks volumes that our current list of forwards consists of 2 Englishmen and an Australian out of 5.  I'm not sure what the answer is but we need to put our focus on to trying to develop good, young forwards as we'll continue to fail if we don't score goals.

 

Ok, this is going to be ridiculous ‘girly ‘ question but,  from what I remember from school in the olden days, every guy wanted to be a striker. I cant imagine much has changed so assuming this is a popular position why do we produce so few strikers? You would think the demand to play in  that position would produce some talent. I could perhaps  understand if we struggled with goalies, but not strikers. Has something changed ? 

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On 6/9/2022 at 6:56 PM, Ally Bongo said:

Bale is/was arguably a World Class player  - we haven't produced one that was born after me (1967)

 

I would argue that, had McFadden had the pace of Bale he wouldn't be far away from Bales level, you where born in 1967, I was born in 1965,

Think you could probably say a few players around our age where verging on world class, Charlie Nicholas could and should have been, Paul McStay,  & Ian Durrant (barring an horrendous injury)

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22 minutes ago, glasgow jock said:

I would argue that, had McFadden had the pace of Bale he wouldn't be far away from Bales level, you where born in 1967, I was born in 1965,

Think you could probably say a few players around our age where verging on world class, Charlie Nicholas could and should have been, Paul McStay,  & Ian Durrant (barring an horrendous injury)

As much as I love Faddy he's nowhere near the level of player Bale is/was.

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53 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Ok, this is going to be ridiculous ‘girly ‘ question but,  from what I remember from school in the olden days, every guy wanted to be a striker. I cant imagine much has changed so assuming this is a popular position why do we produce so few strikers? You would think the demand to play in  that position would produce some talent. I could perhaps  understand if we struggled with goalies, but not strikers. Has something changed ? 

There was an interesting discussion recently on this subject on Off The Ball of all places.

Can't remember who the guest was but it seems the best kids these days want to play in midfield and get loads of possession of the ball, rather than run around up front and getting fewer touches per game.

Also the performance schools system favours technique and keeping the ball rather than penalty box finishing. 

 

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1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

Ok, this is going to be ridiculous ‘girly ‘ question but,  from what I remember from school in the olden days, every guy wanted to be a striker. I cant imagine much has changed so assuming this is a popular position why do we produce so few strikers? You would think the demand to play in  that position would produce some talent. I could perhaps  understand if we struggled with goalies, but not strikers. Has something changed ? 

I would say that from the early 1970s everybody wanted to be as good as Beckenbauer. Some of us thought we were. 😉

 Der Kaiser was the guy who changed everything, IMO.

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28 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I would say that from the early 1970s everybody wanted to be as good as Beckenbauer. Some of us thought we were. 😉

 Der Kaiser was the guy who changed everything, IMO.

Even Der Kaiser started off as a CF 😊

Originally a centre forward, he idolised 1954 FIFA World Cup winner Fritz Walter and supported local side 1860 Munich, then the pre-eminent team in the city, despite their relegation from the top league, the Oberliga Süd, in the 1950s. 
 

Tut tut …

In 1963, at the age of 18, Beckenbauer was engulfed by controversy when it was revealed that his then girlfriend was pregnant and that he had no intention of marrying her; he was banned from the West German national youth team by the DFB and only readmitted after the intervention of the side's coach Dettmar Cramer.[12]

 

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53 minutes ago, TDYER63 said:

Even Der Kaiser started off as a CF 😊

He saw the light and realised the glory was in midfield or at sweeper. To be fair, he would have been competing with Gerd Muller for the centre forward position. Obviously not daft either.

 

 

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19 hours ago, TDYER63 said:

Ok, this is going to be ridiculous ‘girly ‘ question but,  from what I remember from school in the olden days, every guy wanted to be a striker. I cant imagine much has changed so assuming this is a popular position why do we produce so few strikers? You would think the demand to play in  that position would produce some talent. I could perhaps  understand if we struggled with goalies, but not strikers. Has something changed ? 

From memory, it was goalie that was the least desirable position to play. Usually the worst player on the team got stuck in goal!

Thinking about it lately though, for me the least interesting position must be centre-half. Essentially your job is to stop other people playing. In midfield you get loads of the ball, create chances and even score the odd goal. Even goalie is at the sharp end of things - and you're first name on the team sheet! But centre-half? It's like playing bass guitar in a band - important - vital even - but it doesn't afford many chances to express yourself.

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22 minutes ago, scotlad said:

From memory, it was goalie that was the least desirable position to play. Usually the worst player on the team got stuck in goal!

Thinking about it lately though, for me the least interesting position must be centre-half. Essentially your job is to stop other people playing. In midfield you get loads of the ball, create chances and even score the odd goal. Even goalie is at the sharp end of things - and you're first name on the team sheet! But centre-half? It's like playing bass guitar in a band - important - vital even - but it doesn't afford many chances to express yourself.

I was in goal purely for those reasons and then got semi-decent at it so was stuck there - big goals ruined me though as no glasses on meant depth perception shot to shit! 

Wee lass was a surprise because she was scoring goals for the u8's but then by herself moved into defence.  Asked her why and it was because she prefers stopping other folk scoring than actually scoring herself - wee psycho but think it stems from playing with the boys at lunchtime where she graduated from goal to playing out and the only way to get the ball was to nick it off of them. 

Causes a few parental discussions though when she rattles into a tackle vs a girl who typically doesn't play vs boys too.  Couple of weeks back ran back full pelt and shouldered a girl off the ball who went absolutely flying who then had to go off shook up.  Asked wee lass if she apologised and swear down said 'Why I got the ball' - blame her mum as the super competitive edge doesn't come from me but she's defo chosen play centre half!  

 

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40 minutes ago, scotlad said:

From memory, it was goalie that was the least desirable position to play. Usually the worst player on the team got stuck in goal!

Thinking about it lately though, for me the least interesting position must be centre-half. Essentially your job is to stop other people playing. In midfield you get loads of the ball, create chances and even score the odd goal. Even goalie is at the sharp end of things - and you're first name on the team sheet! But centre-half? It's like playing bass guitar in a band - important - vital even - but it doesn't afford many chances to express yourself.

😂

My husband played left  back and I remember him moaning about having to take a turn in goal when he played 5 asides , that is until a few years ago when he was desperate to get there ! 
He also had ambitions to play bass guitar but that never amounted to anything either ‘ even though I bought him a bloody guitar and lessons. He never quite became the football come rock star  I thought i was marrying 😁

I think probably what Toepoke said is correct. Midfield seems to be the ‘en vogue ‘ position these days due to its variety  . 

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