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Are Wales better than us?


Malcolm
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We obviously struggle for quality strikers but I was frustrated last night at the lack of balls into Adams. I don’t think he touched the ball in the first 20 minutes even though we were attacking. If they don’t play it in and around him, how is he going to score?
I was also frustrated at the wasted short corners. The first time we actually put it in the box, we scored. 
 

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8 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

My category and probably everyone elses for World Class is someone that can be the main difference to any team

Examples of defenders that could do that would be Maldini, Baresi, Roberto Carlos  but even then they are unlikely to be the main difference

Robertson is very good at his position but i wouldnt say World Class and definitely not a game changer

 

 

It depends on what you consider world class. 

Personally my definition is being in the top 10/15 in your position.

I would split the positions into gk,fb,cb,cm,winger,st.

Each of those positions has about 10/15 world class players in it. That means there is about 60 to 90 world class players currently but the full backs are mostly at the bottom of the list if you were to rank them. Full backs tend not to be game changers and tend not to be in the to 10/15 players in the world.

Robertson is world class but he is obviously at the tail end of world class rankings whereas bale was in the top 5. 

Reality is we dont really need a world class full back, what we need is a good(not world class) striker. If i could somehow swap robertson for mitrovic i would. Although robertson is world class and mitrovic isnt, mitrovic is the kind of player a team like us is really missing.

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12 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

Which 5 players do Wales have that would start for us? Bear in mind I'm talking about if we had all players fit and available.

Ben davies, ramsay(based on international past), bale, rodon, hennessy/ward would arguably get a game as much as i like gordon. Dan james would start if we played 442. I did say 4/5 so i would say theres easily 4 who would start for us. Theres a few other guys who could be in contention like amapadu,mepham or johnson. 

Theres alot of guys who are similar level so its hard to tell who would be picked out of the two squads but if you look at the recent qualification records of both countries then its unfair to suggest that they would only have 5 or 6 in our squad. They wouldnt be getting the results they have done if that was the case.

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19 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Ben davies, ramsay(based on international past), bale, rodon, hennessy/ward would arguably get a game as much as i like gordon. Dan james would start if we played 442. I did say 4/5 so i would say theres easily 4 who would start for us. Theres a few other guys who could be in contention like amapadu,mepham or johnson. 

Theres alot of guys who are similar level so its hard to tell who would be picked out of the two squads but if you look at the recent qualification records of both countries then its unfair to suggest that they would only have 5 or 6 in our squad. They wouldnt be getting the results they have done if that was the case.

Ben Davies and Gareth Bale, yes. Rodon doesn't get off Spurs bench very often. So probably a squad player. Ramsay wasn't even a first team player for Rangers, but he'd be in the squad on history. Gordon is better than Hennessy and Ward, but both might be in the squad. Daniel James scored 4 goals this season. He'd definitely be behind Adams.

Maybe saying only 5 or 6 would get in our squad is harsh, but if you did a combined 23 man squad, it would be heavily in favour of Scots. Though I'm obviously bias.

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1 minute ago, Tartan blood said:

Ben Davies and Gareth Bale, yes. Rodon doesn't get off Spurs bench very often. So probably a squad player. Ramsay wasn't even a first team player for Rangers, but he'd be in the squad on history. Gordon is better than Hennessy and Ward, but both might be in the squad. Daniel James scored 4 goals this season. He'd definitely be behind Adams.

Maybe saying only 5 or 6 would get in our squad is harsh, but if you did a combined 23 man squad, it would be heavily in favour of Scots. Though I'm obviously bias.

Ramsay has played for both juve and arsenal and has played well for wales in the past. He would certainly be in contention although hes not been great for rangers. Conor roberts is another who would be in contention as well, especially with patterson not playing any club football. Dan james would start as a winger if we were playing a 451 or a 442. He might get a game in 352 as well. 

Its hard to tell but if you were to ask neutrals to pick a team from both squads i am willing to bet they would include 4/5 wales players. You have to take off the tartan specs and look at it from a wales or neutral viewpoint.

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2 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Ramsay has played for both juve and arsenal and has played well for wales in the past. He would certainly be in contention although hes not been great for rangers. Conor roberts is another who would be in contention as well, especially with patterson not playing any club football. Dan james would start as a winger if we were playing a 451 or a 442. He might get a game in 352 as well. 

Its hard to tell but if you were to ask neutrals to pick a team from both squads i am willing to bet they would include 4/5 wales players. You have to take off the tartan specs and look at it from a wales or neutral viewpoint.

You're probably right. It's hard to be objective with this type of thing. We'd need to find a true neutral. 

Trying to be completely honest, I'd much rather have our current squad than Wales'. Ours has so much potential, with only 1 or 2 jigsaw pieces missing. Wales, in theory, are only going to get weaker. We are very much at the beginning of a new generation that will be together for the next 5-7 years.

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1 minute ago, Tartan blood said:

You're probably right. It's hard to be objective with this type of thing. We'd need to find a true neutral. 

Trying to be completely honest, I'd much rather have our current squad than Wales'. Ours has so much potential, with only 1 or 2 jigsaw pieces missing. Wales, in theory, are only going to get weaker. We are very much at the beginning of a new generation that will be together for the next 5-7 years.

Yeh i would defo take our current squad if you consider the future. Our squad has the potential to overtake wales in the next 4/5 years. Wales will slide a fair bit once bale and ramsay are gone. We are hopefully at the start of our ascendancy with most of our key players being 27 and under. 

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1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

Ben davies, ramsay(based on international past), bale, rodon, hennessy/ward would arguably get a game as much as i like gordon. Dan james would start if we played 442. I did say 4/5 so i would say theres easily 4 who would start for us. Theres a few other guys who could be in contention like amapadu,mepham or johnson. 

Theres alot of guys who are similar level so its hard to tell who would be picked out of the two squads but if you look at the recent qualification records of both countries then its unfair to suggest that they would only have 5 or 6 in our squad. They wouldnt be getting the results they have done if that was the case.

Pretty much that, compare Ward's performance at last euros to Marshall although he hasn't actually started their last two competitive matches.

Kieffer Moore also a better targetman option than Dykes, again based on impact in euros.

Roberts would probably get in as RWB until Patterson gets fit and proves himself at Everton.

It's right overall Wales aren't miles ahead....however they've been playing 3-5-2/5-3-2 since about 2007 so players have grown up playing it and they've always been better at identifying young players coming through in english game, calling them up and then capping them early.

Already given a few starts to Johnson and Sorba Thomas yet Jacob Brown is bench warming in all these games despite hitting double figures comfortably in the championship so that's one example.

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On 6/8/2022 at 12:05 PM, GaryWood34 said:

I don’t go down this route normally however.. 

Wales were LUCKY (hate that word) v Ukraine. It was one of the weirdest matches I’ve seen. Ukraine played them off the park and Wales benefitted from an oddball of a goal. The type of goal we could have benefitted from but didn’t.

We are better than Wales and will be for a long time to come. Their better players are crocks and we have a lot of promise coming through. 

So do Wales.

Brennan Johnson one of most rated young players in UK currently on account of his Nottingham Forest form and they rejected 15m bid from Brentford in January and that was good decision.

Likes of Dan James and Harry Wilson inconsistant at club level but both solid internationals now who can chip in with goals. Both mid 20s.

Most impressive and ironically one thing that Giggs did well before his implosion was trusting the young lads at the back...could've easily stuck with likes of Ashley Williams, James Chester and Neil Taylor for another two years but weeded them out and gave regular game time to Joe Rodon, Mepham and Ampadu who are all early 20s still so that's a very strong unit to continue to build from given many teams can get far in international football by not conceding much.

They will of course miss Bale when he's gone though given the aura he brings. Ramsey less so as he actually barely played much in their euro 2020 qualifiers and is declining force on the pitch now.

Probably a good time to get them in qualifying groups will be 2026 onwards I think but they'll remain competitive with the infrastructure they've put in place over last decade.

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14 minutes ago, Tartan Chris said:

Pretty much that, compare Ward's performance at last euros to Marshall although he hasn't actually started their last two competitive matches.

Kieffer Moore also a better targetman option than Dykes, again based on impact in euros.

Roberts would probably get in as RWB until Patterson gets fit and proves himself at Everton.

It's right overall Wales aren't miles ahead....however they've been playing 3-5-2/5-3-2 since about 2007 so players have grown up playing it and they've always been better at identifying young players coming through in english game, calling them up and then capping them early.

Already given a few starts to Johnson and Sorba Thomas yet Jacob Brown is bench warming in all these games despite hitting double figures comfortably in the championship so that's one example.

Looking at brennan johnson stats. 19 goals last season and hes only just turned 21. Could be a decent striker for them in the future. 

 

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Of course we're better than Wales.  We just beat Armenia who beat Macedonia who beat Italy.  Ergo, we're better than Italy, who are certainly better than Wales.  It's not rocket surgery!

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57 minutes ago, todd said:

Of course we're better than Wales.  We just beat Armenia who beat Macedonia who beat Italy.  Ergo, we're better than Italy, who are certainly better than Wales.  It's not rocket surgery!

Except Wales are going to the World Cup and Italy aren't. So that would make us on a par with Italy and slightly behind Wales and Ukraine. 😂

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IMHO the biggest thing we have missed for the last 30 odd years is a striker who can score goals, makes such a hufe difference

Wales had Bale, Sweden had Zlatan, Poland had the Bayern guy im not even going to try and spell etc - if we had a striker who was very good we would be a totally different team 

Wales over the last 30 years have had Bale, Bellamy, Rush, Hughes, Hartson, Saunders, Earnshaw, all who have done well, while we really havent had any Miller with 18 goals 

Concerning thing is there is no real class strikers in the current pool or the U21, U19 

With a fit Bale and ramsey i would say they currently are better then us, however i think our trajectory looks better than there's over next 10 years 

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2 hours ago, borojock said:

IMHO the biggest thing we have missed for the last 30 odd years is a striker who can score goals, makes such a hufe difference

Wales had Bale, Sweden had Zlatan, Poland had the Bayern guy im not even going to try and spell etc - if we had a striker who was very good we would be a totally different team 

Wales over the last 30 years have had Bale, Bellamy, Rush, Hughes, Hartson, Saunders, Earnshaw, all who have done well, while we really havent had any Miller with 18 goals 

Concerning thing is there is no real class strikers in the current pool or the U21, U19 

With a fit Bale and ramsey i would say they currently are better then us, however i think our trajectory looks better than there's over next 10 years 

Sadly more because they’ll come down to our level, rather than us overtaking them, unless we somehow produce better attacking players. 

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1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

Do we need a new thread for Ireland?

😃

The last team to lose in Dublin (apart from us) in a competitive game was Gibraltar (who ironically scored their first ever 'proper' goal against us).

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We have a mentality problem - our squad as it is vs Wales should be looking to overtake them going forward. In six months time their best players are Dan James, Ben Davies and Harry Wilson.

If it isn't translating from paper to grass shows the manager needs a Plan B (he's needed one since Israel worked us out by the second episode of that horrendous series) instead of us being miles off Wales.

Genuinely don't understand how anyone could revel in this shambles of a performance being categoric proof we're a lot worse than them.

Our inferiority complex is baffling at times.

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1 minute ago, ThistleWhistle said:

We have a mentality problem - our squad as it is vs Wales should be looking to overtake them going forward. In six months time their best players are Dan James, Ben Davies and Harry Wilson.

If it isn't translating from paper to grass shows the manager needs a Plan B (he's needed one since Israel worked us out by the second episode of that horrendous series) instead of us being miles off Wales.

Genuinely don't understand how anyone could revel in this shambles of a performance being categoric proof we're a lot worse than them.

Our inferiority complex is baffling at times.

Is it really though?

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1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

Is it really though?

I lived down south for 20 years and back up here 20 years and genuinely find it weird - it's like it is embedded into our culture. 

Wales played 5 Soke players or former players who were varying degrees of toss for us and Ireland had Hogan who again was an absolute cart horse.

Brown on the other hand is our player of the season and would run through walls for us barely broke into a jog.

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37 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

While we were getting ragdolled by Ireland, Wales were drawing with the second best team in the world.

Oh, I wouldn't read too much into the Wales result. Belgium are managed by an overrated bald buffoon who can't get the most out of the players at his disposal.

Actually, they remind me of another team....

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