Are Wales better than us?

[ThistleWhistle]

17 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

Having a look through their squad, I can't see more than 5 or 6 that would actually be called up for Scotland. And, as you say, most of them are probably on the verge of retiring.

Ireland are even worse. With the exception of a fit Coleman and maybe a back up keeper, they don't really have anyone that would make our squad.

As much as I would love a player of Bale's level, I actually don't think we need one. Our depth of squad is so strong right now that all we need is a good poacher. Dykes is a great target man and will bully defenders. Adams, when given space, will finish beautifully. But neither are natural poachers. Maybe Ross Stewart? I'd like to see him given the full 90 versus Armenia.

Yeah agree on a lot of that - we have as great depth as I can remember, more coming through than retiring hopefully (need a keeper though) and a number of this squad would for me easily make it into their Euro 2016 squad.  However, the spine of that side was Bale, Ramsey, Allen at his peak and Ashley Williams and we're a decent chunk away from that.  

I think we need a top class centre back too - if Harry Souttar is the same after his injury it could have been him but unfortunately not to be.  Hopefully King and the lad at Bayern Munich kick on. 

Although, we could already have one in John Souttar if he stays clear of injury and is playing regularly at european level.  Was a season ticket holder the first couple of years at United and what a brain and touch he had on him even at 16! - he just suffered from teams working out to lump it at his head before he'd filled out so got ragdolled at times.  He's only 25 but seems to have been around forever - hopefully stays fit.  Sound like a broken record but would love to have seen him playing alongside his brother. 

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by ThistleWhistle

[ParisInAKilt]

1 hour ago, Tartan blood said:

Having a look through their squad, I can't see more than 5 or 6 that would actually be called up for Scotland. And, as you say, most of them are probably on the verge of retiring.

Ireland are even worse. With the exception of a fit Coleman and maybe a back up keeper, they don't really have anyone that would make our squad.

As much as I would love a player of Bale's level, I actually don't think we need one. Our depth of squad is so strong right now that all we need is a good poacher. Dykes is a great target man and will bully defenders. Adams, when given space, will finish beautifully. But neither are natural poachers. Maybe Ross Stewart? I'd like to see him given the full 90 versus Armenia.

Have you watched us lose to Ukraine, Croatia and the Czech Republic?

Its either arrogance or delusion if you don’t think we need a quality attacking player. 

[weekevie04]

Yes, Wales are better than us the results don't lie. 

[Tartan blood]

1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Have you watched us lose to Ukraine, Croatia and the Czech Republic?

Its either arrogance or delusion if you don’t think we need a quality attacking player. 

Where did I say we don't need a quality attacking player? When I say "poacher", I mean someone that can finish off attacks competently. That requires quality. A quality that neither Adams or Dykes possess. Not so far, at least. 

We created a plethora of chances in all 3 of the games you mentioned. 2 of which didn't have Tierney, who adds even more creativity. If we had a talisman to finish off the moves we create we'd be in a far better position. Obviously I'd love a Bale or a Haaland, but I'd settle for a "quality" poacher at the minute.

 

[Caledonian Craig]

16 minutes ago, weekevie04 said:

Yes, Wales are better than us the results don't lie. 

Agreed.

I don't know why people have great difficulty in admitting it either. Is it because of a dislike of their fans? Or their dislike of Gareth Bale? Is it because people still live in the 1970s and 80s? Facts, stats and results do not lie:-

They are ranked higher than us.

They are seeded higher than us.

They reached the Euro semis in 2016 when we did not even qualify.

They reached the latter stages of Euro 2020 when we bombed out in the First Round.

They have qualified for the 2022 World Cup Finals and we haven't.

Why have they been so much better than us? Well Wales have a legendary player in Gareth Bale who scores and creates goals for fun. Bale is (statistically) better than anything we have produced in our history. I am pretty sure if we had Bale in our side we'd have qualified for much more in the last few years.

[mccaughey85]

3 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

Having a look through their squad, I can't see more than 5 or 6 that would actually be called up for Scotland. And, as you say, most of them are probably on the verge of retiring.

Ireland are even worse. With the exception of a fit Coleman and maybe a back up keeper, they don't really have anyone that would make our squad.

As much as I would love a player of Bale's level, I actually don't think we need one. Our depth of squad is so strong right now that all we need is a good poacher. Dykes is a great target man and will bully defenders. Adams, when given space, will finish beautifully. But neither are natural poachers. Maybe Ross Stewart? I'd like to see him given the full 90 versus Armenia.

Wales have at least 9 or 10 that would make our squad. They have at least 4/5 who would start for us, depending on formation. 

As for ireland they have 5/6 who would make our squad which is really poor considering how strong their squads were in the noughties.

Gotta say the welsh would be pissing themselves laughing at this thread. Euro 2016 semi finalists and have just qualified for a world cup beating the team that put us out. They have been way better than us over the last 10 years. However i do think they peaked in 2016 and if we both played each other tomorrow it would be quite equal with wales having the slight edge due to bale.

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by mccaughey85

[weekevie04]

Agree, CC.

Alot might say we have a better team on paper etc but even then do we? Tierney is our best player imo, McGinn if on form too and Robertson against lesser sides is dangerous eg Armenia game

[ger intae them]

Obviously wales’ recent record is better than ours by a distance…… maybe it’s because people see so many championship ….. or league1 ….. players in their squad, as well as the old ‘part-timers’ with undoubted star quality. Depending on who bale signs for could make or break his World Cup contribution…… can’t see him training himself for that long and still putting in a performance in Qatar.

[ParisInAKilt]

43 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

Where did I say we don't need a quality attacking player? When I say "poacher", I mean someone that can finish off attacks competently. That requires quality. A quality that neither Adams or Dykes possess. Not so far, at least. 

We created a plethora of chances in all 3 of the games you mentioned. 2 of which didn't have Tierney, who adds even more creativity. If we had a talisman to finish off the moves we create we'd be in a far better position. Obviously I'd love a Bale or a Haaland, but I'd settle for a "quality" poacher at the minute.

 

You said we didn’t need someone of Bale’s level. 

As much as I love McGinn he’s never gonna be at that level and Christie and Armstrong are limited further. 

Maybe I’m watching different games but I don’t think we’ve created a plethora of chances in those games, even last night I thought we struggled to create quality opportunities for Adam against a below average team who played shocking. 

[Orraloon]

2 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

You said we didn’t need someone of Bale’s level. 

As much as I love McGinn he’s never gonna be at that level and Christie and Armstrong are limited further. 

Maybe I’m watching different games but I don’t think we’ve created a plethora of chances in those games, even last night I thought we struggled to create quality opportunities for Adam against a below average team who played shocking. 

I think you must have been watching a different game from me last night. We created loads of chances. We just weren't good enough to take advantage of them.

[ParisInAKilt]

1 minute ago, Orraloon said:

I think you must have been watching a different game from me last night. We created loads of chances. We just weren't good enough to take advantage of them.

Which ones in particular? Granted a better forward than Adams might have made more of his opportunities but even then I can’t remember him missing a great chance. 

[mccaughey85]

3 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

You said we didn’t need someone of Bale’s level. 

As much as I love McGinn he’s never gonna be at that level and Christie and Armstrong are limited further. 

Maybe I’m watching different games but I don’t think we’ve created a plethora of chances in those games, even last night I thought we struggled to create quality opportunities for Adam against a below average team who played shocking. 

Not sure we necessarily need a guy of bales level but 2 or 3 strikers/forwards who can unlock a defence and score goals is needed. Even if we had someone like mitrovic or pukki plus another couple of guys like ryan fraser who actually bother to turn up then we would be looking at a much better team. We seriously lacked cutting edge against armenia in what was a dominant display in terms of shots and possession.

[ParisInAKilt]

I think I’m more focused on the second half. I mind the Armstrong and Robertson chances early in. 

[ParisInAKilt]

2 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Not sure we necessarily need a guy of bales level but 2 or 3 strikers/forwards who can unlock a defence and score goals is needed. Even if we had someone like mitrovic or pukki plus another couple of guys like ryan fraser who actually bother to turn up then we would be looking at a much better team. We seriously lacked cutting edge against armenia in what was a dominant display in terms of shots and possession.

Suppose it depends on what our aspersions are. Winning knockout matches and qualifying regularly has to be the goal but it’s hard to see that happening unless as you say we have better players.

Wish I could be more optimistic but last week was a kick in the baws!

[Orraloon]

8 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Which ones in particular? Granted a better forward than Adams might have made more of his opportunities but even then I can’t remember him missing a great chance. 

We could have been 3-0 up after 10 minutes with better finishing.

[Ally Bongo]

17 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

You said we didn’t need someone of Bale’s level. 

As much as I love McGinn he’s never gonna be at that level and Christie and Armstrong are limited further. 

Maybe I’m watching different games but I don’t think we’ve created a plethora of chances in those games, even last night I thought we struggled to create quality opportunities for Adam against a below average team who played shocking. 

Bale is/was arguably a World Class player  - we havent produced one that was born after me (1967)

 

[mccaughey85]

Just now, ParisInAKilt said:

Suppose it depends on what our aspersions are. Winning knockout matches and qualifying regularly has to be the goal but it’s hard to see that happening unless as you say we have better players.

Wish I could be more optimistic but last week was a kick in the baws!

At the moment we have a team/squad good enough to go to the euros and maybe get out the first round if we are lucky. Obviously alot of that is down to the increase in teams to 24.

I would say qualifying for the world cup with this squad is a tough ask, we dont really have the strength in depth imo to expect it. If we got a goalscorer like mitrovic or someone of that ability and a couple more quality epl level attacking midfielders/forwards then we should be looking at qualifying for both the world cup and the euros.

My expectations is that we qualify for the euros from now on and occasionally get to the world cup. Obviously my realistic hope is that a couple of genuinely class forwards/strikers come through and we get to the world cup more often but its still very tough to expect it will happen.

[mccaughey85]

3 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Bale is/was arguably a World Class player  - we havent produced one that was born after me (1967)

 

Robertson is world class, obviously not anywhere near bales level but he is a world class player.

[ceudmilefailte]

1 hour ago, Tartan blood said:

Where did I say we don't need a quality attacking player? When I say "poacher", I mean someone that can finish off attacks competently. That requires quality. A quality that neither Adams or Dykes possess. Not so far, at least. 

We created a plethora of chances in all 3 of the games you mentioned. 2 of which didn't have Tierney, who adds even more creativity. If we had a talisman to finish off the moves we create we'd be in a far better position. Obviously I'd love a Bale or a Haaland, but I'd settle for a "quality" poacher at the minute.

 

Was going to argue the plethora of chances quotes but looking back at the stats we had 10 or more attempts in all three games the same sort of amount against England.

Maybe if they fell to a quality striker we might score more but then if we played the sort of poacher you are looking for we might create less.

I don't think there is such a thing as a quality poacher anymore, all strikers have to offer a lot more to a team than just the ability to finish chances put on a plate for them.

[scotlad]

26 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Not sure we necessarily need a guy of bales level but 2 or 3 strikers/forwards who can unlock a defence and score goals is needed. Even if we had someone like mitrovic or pukki plus another couple of guys like ryan fraser who actually bother to turn up then we would be looking at a much better team. We seriously lacked cutting edge against armenia in what was a dominant display in terms of shots and possession.

I'd love it if we had a striker like Mitrovic. 27 shots we had last night, apparently, from 72% possession - it's hard to imagine a player like him not benefiting from those kind of statistics.

Looking through our qualifying group, Austria have Arnautovic and Israel have Zahavi, both of whom have over 30 international goals.  Ukraine have Yarmolenko who has scored over 40 times for his country.  None of them are at Bale's level but they are still top performers at a high level who know how to put the ball in the net.  Our lack of a consistent goal-scorer will see us found out more often than not against good opposition.

[mccaughey85]

8 minutes ago, scotlad said:

I'd love it if we had a striker like Mitrovic. 27 shots we had last night, apparently, from 72% possession - it's hard to imagine a player like him not benefiting from those kind of statistics.

Looking through our qualifying group, Austria have Arnautovic and Israel have Zahavi, both of whom have over 30 international goals.  Ukraine have Yarmolenko who has scored over 40 times for his country.  None of them are at Bale's level but they are still top performers at a high level who know how to put the ball in the net.  Our lack of a consistent goal-scorer will see us found out more often than not against good opposition.

Yeh we need a natural goalscorer, we struggle to produce decent strikers and have done for the last 25 years, maybe longer.

[Tartan blood]

27 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Was going to argue the plethora of chances quotes but looking back at the stats we had 10 or more attempts in all three games the same sort of amount against England.

Maybe if they fell to a quality striker we might score more but then if we played the sort of poacher you are looking for we might create less.

I don't think there is such a thing as a quality poacher anymore, all strikers have to offer a lot more to a team than just the ability to finish chances put on a plate for them.

I think maybe "poacher" was the wrong word to use. I guess the connotations are that all they would do is sit in the 6 yard box and stick a body part out. That's not what I meant. As others have said, the likes of Yarmalenko, Arnautovic etc are quality goalscorers. Those are the types of player we can produce. But, for whatever reason, we aren't. 

Bale is very much in the upper echelons. Arguably one of the best players of the last decade. We shouldn't hold our breath waiting for that type of player.

I'm hopeful though. Not so long ago we were crying out for right backs and centre backs. And loads have appeared. Maybe a striker or 2 will emerge unexpectedly.

[Ally Bongo]

33 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Robertson is world class, obviously not anywhere near bales level but he is a world class player.

My category and probably everyone elses for World Class is someone that can be the main difference to any team

Examples of defenders that could do that would be Maldini, Baresi, Roberto Carlos  but even then they are unlikely to be the main difference

Robertson is very good at his position but i wouldnt say World Class and definitely not a game changer

 

 

[Tartan blood]

1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

Wales have at least 9 or 10 that would make our squad. They have at least 4/5 who would start for us, depending on formation. 

As for ireland they have 5/6 who would make our squad which is really poor considering how strong their squads were in the noughties.

Gotta say the welsh would be pissing themselves laughing at this thread. Euro 2016 semi finalists and have just qualified for a world cup beating the team that put us out. They have been way better than us over the last 10 years. However i do think they peaked in 2016 and if we both played each other tomorrow it would be quite equal with wales having the slight edge due to bale.

 

Which 5 players do Wales have that would start for us? Bear in mind I'm talking about if we had all players fit and available.

[Caledonian Craig]

The biggest weapon a team can have is a prolific goalscorer - we do not have one. We have to do the best we can with that handicap unfortunately. That means scratching out 1-0 wins and hoping players can chip in with goals all over the park. Even then you are hamstrung.