Are Wales better than us?

[Clyde1998]

20 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Absolutely spot on.

They have built a club team spirit around the national squad with a mix of tried and trusted internationals such as Hennessy, Davies, Allen, Ramsay, Roberts and Bale and integrating up and coming players at an early stage into the squad. It is a system that has been in the making for perhaps 8 years. We have been on a similar path for perhaps a couple of years and we have seen the improvements. We have went from leaking goals and being also rans in qualifying campaigns to being more competitive and secure at the back. My only worry about moving to the next stage is we have no Gareth Bale's.

To be fair, some players can come out of nowhere to become top player - even Bale himself seemed to be a dud until Tottenham started playing him in an attacking position instead of left-back. In two years time, we could be talking about a player no-one is talking about right now.

We've also had the mentality of expecting failure, where we expect something to go wrong at some point; that can become a self-fulfilling prophecy and is something Wales don't have at the moment.

[Tartan blood]

15 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Absolutely spot on.

They have built a club team spirit around the national squad with a mix of tried and trusted internationals such as Hennessy, Davies, Allen, Ramsay, Roberts and Bale and integrating up and coming players at an early stage into the squad. It is a system that has been in the making for perhaps 8 years. We have been on a similar path for perhaps a couple of years and we have seen the improvements. We have went from leaking goals and being also rans in qualifying campaigns to being more competitive and secure at the back. My only worry about moving to the next stage is we have no Gareth Bale's.

Yup. And Wales seem to just replace their superstars with one after another e.g Ian Rush, Mark Hughes, Ryan Giggs, Craig Bellamy, Gareth Bale. With barely any gaps in between. 

I think we have now found a perfect balance between youth and experience. Goalkeepers aside, we have a deep pool of players that can deputise and then replace in almost every position. We already have 3 guys under 21 that have forced their way into our starting 11 lately (Hickey, Patterson and Gilmour). Very few players in our squad aren't regulars for their clubs either. Where as Wales whole squad is filled with bench warmers.

I'm hoping the Ukraine game was a one off, because our upward trajectory has been relentless.

[GaryWood34]

I don’t go down this route normally however.. 

Wales were LUCKY (hate that word) v Ukraine. It was one of the weirdest matches I’ve seen. Ukraine played them off the park and Wales benefitted from an oddball of a goal. The type of goal we could have benefitted from but didn’t.

We are better than Wales and will be for a long time to come. Their better players are crocks and we have a lot of promise coming through. 

[Caledonian Craig]

12 minutes ago, GaryWood34 said:

I don’t go down this route normally however.. 

Wales were LUCKY (hate that word) v Ukraine. It was one of the weirdest matches I’ve seen. Ukraine played them off the park and Wales benefitted from an oddball of a goal. The type of goal we could have benefitted from but didn’t.

We are better than Wales and will be for a long time to come. Their better players are crocks and we have a lot of promise coming through. 

Your first paragraph I agree.

Your second paragraph I disagree. I cannot see how this can be considering Wales reached the Euro semis and got further than us in Euro 2020 and now in this World Cup 

[vanderark14]

7 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Your first paragraph I agree.

Your second paragraph I disagree. I cannot see how this can be considering Wales reached the Euro semis and got further than us in Euro 2020 and now in this World Cup 

In 2016 and 2020 Euros I think we were slightly weaker than Wales, however I believe we are catching them. The smallest margins saw them get to the world cup, as GW says they were unbelievably lucky, something even Dean Saunders admitted. 

 

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, vanderark14 said:

In 2016 and 2020 Euros I think we were slightly weaker than Wales, however I believe we are catching them. The smallest margins saw them get to the world cup, as GW says they were unbelievably lucky, something even Dean Saunders admitted. 

 

Oh defo we are closing them down and once Bale retires we may even be ahead but....they will still get the benefits of easier draws owing to them being in Pot 2. That is where we must strive to reach and that will start with a win tonight followed by a successful Nations League campaign.

[mccaughey85]

2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Oh defo we are closing them down and once Bale retires we may even be ahead but....they will still get the benefits of easier draws owing to them being in Pot 2. That is where we must strive to reach and that will start with a win tonight followed by a successful Nations League campaign.

Do you know what chances we have of being in pot 2 for the euro qualifiers?

It would certainly help us avoid getting 2 heavyweight nations if we are in pot2.

 

[Templeton_Peck]

To be in pot 2 we either have to win our nations league group or be the best placed team to finish 2nd. 

Even if we do then would be some difficult teams in pot 3 including Ukraine. 

[Caledonian Craig]

11 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Do you know what chances we have of being in pot 2 for the euro qualifiers?

It would certainly help us avoid getting 2 heavyweight nations if we are in pot2.

 

Not exactly sure but win our Nation's League group and hope that Finland and Norway do not win theirs and we would stand a very good chance. 

[mccaughey85]

30 minutes ago, Templeton_Peck said:

To be in pot 2 we either have to win our nations league group or be the best placed team to finish 2nd. 

Even if we do then would be some difficult teams in pot 3 including Ukraine. 

Sounds like a tough ask. 

[er yir macaroon]

33 minutes ago, Templeton_Peck said:

To be in pot 2 we either have to win our nations league group or be the best placed team to finish 2nd. 

Even if we do then would be some difficult teams in pot 3 including Ukraine. 

We need to be winning our NL group. 

[mccaughey85]

27 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Not exactly sure but win our Nation's League group and hope that Finland and Norway do not win theirs and we would stand a very good chance. 

Norway and finland have both made excellent starts in the nations league. Especially norway.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

Norway and finland have both made excellent starts in the nations league. Especially norway.

All we can do is try. And there are other scenarios that come into lay such as results of those currently just in Pot 2.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Caledonian Craig

[Orraloon]

12 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

All we can do is try. And there are other scenarios that come into lay such as results of those currently just in Pot 2.

It’s very straight forward. TP explained it very simply a couple of posts above. Do you not believe him?

[JECK]

Just my opinion but Wales would still never have qualified for any tournament since 1958 or whatever it is without Bale. Check out their results in qualifying for euro 2016, Bale scored in almost every game (7 goals) and dug them out against Azerbaijan and Croatia to qualify in 2nd place by a point for euro 2020. Another 3 goals in the last qualifiers and they got 2nd by a point, plus an albeit deflected free kick on Sunday.

Good luck to them but once he goes they will struggle, no question about it.

[mccaughey85]

1 minute ago, JECK said:

Just my opinion but Wales would still never have qualified for any tournament since 1958 or whatever it is without Bale. Check out their results in qualifying for euro 2016, Bale scored in almost every game (7 goals) and dug them out against Azerbaijan and Croatia to qualify in 2nd place by a point for euro 2020. Another 3 goals in the last qualifiers and they got 2nd by a point, plus an albeit deflected free kick on Sunday.

Good luck to them but once he goes they will struggle, no question about it.

Hes a massive game changer for them. They have other good players but your right that once he goes they wont be nearly as good. Unless of course another superstar whos just as good comes along or a 3/4 slightly lesser stars come along.

I think they peaked in 2016 and its been a slight downhill trajectory since. By the sounds of it ukraine were the better side and wales fluked the win.

 

[DAVIDB46]

8 hours ago, GaryWood34 said:

I don’t go down this route normally however.. 

Wales were LUCKY (hate that word) v Ukraine. It was one of the weirdest matches I’ve seen. Ukraine played them off the park and Wales benefitted from an oddball of a goal. The type of goal we could have benefitted from but didn’t.

We are better than Wales and will be for a long time to come. Their better players are crocks and we have a lot of promise coming through. 

We are not better than wales though as they managed much better than us and everyone player knows his role unlike ourselves

[ParisInAKilt]

Still don’t get what criteria we’re better than Wales? Because it can’t be based on results.

As cringe worthy as England saying they’re better than Croatia or something similar a few years ago. 

[JECK]

They have been, and are better than us because of Bale. That’s all anyone needs to know, end of argument I’m afraid. Once he’s gone different story.

[Caledonian Craig]

5 hours ago, Orraloon said:

It’s very straight forward. TP explained it very simply a couple of posts above. Do you not believe him?

Where exactly did I disagree with him?

[GaryWood34]

12 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Your first paragraph I agree.

Your second paragraph I disagree. I cannot see how this can be considering Wales reached the Euro semis and got further than us in Euro 2020 and now in this World Cup 

Fair. 
 

very fair

[mccaughey85]

Imo wales are slightly better than us, 5/6 years ago they were alot better than us. As soon as bale goes i think we will overtake them. We have some good young players and they will lose ramsay and bale. 

Fair play to them, they have had a golden period/generation and have probably made the most out of it which is what i hope we do with our squad in the next ten years.

[ParisInAKilt]

Rather than overtake them, they’ll come down to our level and might stop qualifying for tournaments. 

[ThistleWhistle]

Undoubted Wales have achieved more than us in the last decade but they do seem a team, if not on the decline already, it is rapidly approaching on the horizon.   The schadenfreude would have been delicious if we’d knocked them out in the playoff because they basically surpassed us when Bale roasted Adam and we’ve been in their wing mirrors ever since but we seem to be ascending at a decent pace just now as they’re dropping off.  If we had them in this Nations League I’d be slightly disappointed if across both games we didn’t breakeven.

 

They seem to be like where we were at the turn of the century where there didn’t seem enough talent coming through to replace the talent that’s on the cusp of retiring.  Bale and Ramsey are the obvious ones but Joe Allen too who has been pretty crap all season doesn’t appear to have a replacement waiting in the wings.  Think their youth set-up now is better than ours was back then so likely their fall won’t be as dramatic and prolonged as ours but wouldn’t be surprised if this World Cup marked the end of an era for them.

 

Be interesting to see how the lad from Forrest gets on next season but from the team last night they’ve possibly got some troubles ahead.  Their first choice keeper is retiring, second choice has barely played much in a decade and the third choice who came in last night is third choice at Stoke so they’ve similar worries to us there.  In midfield Levitt on loan at Dundee United and a 25 year old playing league 1 with Portsmouth played so when Allen retires it doesn’t look like there is much waiting to replace him.

 

Have they got much coming through because at the moment we seem to have as many exciting youngsters as I can remember?  We'll likely need a superstar like Bale to come through for us to replicate what Wales have done recently but genuinely at the moment feel we are on the cusp of something exciting  (it's the hope that gets you everytime!!) 

Edited June 9, 2022 by ThistleWhistle

[Tartan blood]

4 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Undoubted Wales have achieved more than us in the last decade but they do seem a team, if not on the decline already, it is rapidly approaching on the horizon.   The schadenfreude would have been delicious if we’d knocked them out in the playoff because they basically surpassed us when Bale roasted Adam and we’ve been in their wing mirrors ever since but we seem to be ascending at a decent pace just now as they’re dropping off.  If we had them in this Nations League I’d be slightly disappointed if across both games we didn’t breakeven.

 

They seem to be like where we were at the turn of the century where there didn’t seem enough talent coming through to replace the talent that’s on the cusp of retiring.  Bale and Ramsey are the obvious ones but Joe Allen too who has been pretty crap all season doesn’t appear to have a replacement waiting in the wings.  Think their youth set-up now is better than ours was back then so likely their fall won’t be as dramatic and prolonged as ours but wouldn’t be surprised if this World Cup marked the end of an era for them.

 

Be interesting to see how the lad from Forrest gets on next season but from the team last night they’ve possibly got some troubles ahead.  Their first choice keeper is retiring, second choice has barely played much in a decade and the third choice who came in last night is third choice at Stoke so they’ve similar worries to us there.  In midfield Levitt on loan at Dundee United and a 25 year old playing league 1 with Portsmouth played so when Allen retires it doesn’t look like there is much waiting to replace him.

 

Have they got much coming through because at the moment we seem to have as many exciting youngsters as I can remember?  We'll likely need a superstar like Bale to come through for us to replicate what Wales have done recently but genuinely at the moment feel we are on the cusp of something exciting  (it's the hope that gets you everytime!!) 

Having a look through their squad, I can't see more than 5 or 6 that would actually be called up for Scotland. And, as you say, most of them are probably on the verge of retiring.

Ireland are even worse. With the exception of a fit Coleman and maybe a back up keeper, they don't really have anyone that would make our squad.

As much as I would love a player of Bale's level, I actually don't think we need one. Our depth of squad is so strong right now that all we need is a good poacher. Dykes is a great target man and will bully defenders. Adams, when given space, will finish beautifully. But neither are natural poachers. Maybe Ross Stewart? I'd like to see him given the full 90 versus Armenia.