v Armenia

[Malcolm]

 

the question on Wednesday is whether to stick with 5 at the back without tierney or go to 4.  If everyone was fit I would be tempted to play 

                                   Gordon

                   Souttar.   McKenna tierney

patterson.                   Jack.                  Robertson

              Mctominay.     Mcgregor mcginn

                                    Adams

    

[Malcolm]

                             Gordon

patterson.  Souttar.  McKenna.  Tierney

                               Jack

mctominay.     Mcginn.  Mcgregor. Robertson

                               Adams

 

 

[breeks_mctavish]

Last week was horrible. It will only be forgivable if we learn lessons. Like not shitting ourselves when an opponent plays a high press and resorting to booting it upfield when we have good footballers in the middle of the park. And defending with more know how. I’m really thinking that McTominay at the back against better teams is too much of a risk. These are things we can improve in the short term.

We are starting to see some good players coming through the performance schools but if each year produces 2 to 3 good players it will still take a good few years to really see the benefit of the system throughout the squad. Also, as a nation, we need to find our playing style. We should aspire to a play out from the back and press like fuck as a team when we lose possession. it’s what all the best teams do and we should have this in place at all age groups. I still feel that we are mixing the old with the new, with some technical players but often with old fashioned football.

Compared to previous campaigns, we are still moving in the right direction. One thing we’ve had in the last few years is a lot of heart (mixed with skill at times as well). The players are in some ways lucky they have these games to try and atone for the bad performance last week so quickly. 

[kumnio]

McTominay playing in defence because he is comfortable on the ball, im sorry, but he isn't an accomplished ball player, and he certainly isn't a bloody defender. Souttar is better on both issues for me, it was an absolutely ridiculous decision by Clarke to drop Souttar for McTominay.

I think Clarke will do with this on Wednesday, we don't have any wide players to play a 442 or similar.

Gordon

Souttar Hanley McKenna

Ralston Gilmour McGregor Robertson

McGinn Christie

Adam

Personally Id drop captain pisshead as well as a few others.

 

[Diamond Scot]

49 minutes ago, breeks_mctavish said:

Last week was horrible. It will only be forgivable if we learn lessons. Like not shitting ourselves when an opponent plays a high press and resorting to booting it upfield when we have good footballers in the middle of the park. And defending with more know how. I’m really thinking that McTominay at the back against better teams is too much of a risk. These are things we can improve in the short term.

We are starting to see some good players coming through the performance schools but if each year produces 2 to 3 good players it will still take a good few years to really see the benefit of the system throughout the squad. Also, as a nation, we need to find our playing style. We should aspire to a play out from the back and press like fuck as a team when we lose possession. it’s what all the best teams do and we should have this in place at all age groups. I still feel that we are mixing the old with the new, with some technical players but often with old fashioned football.

Compared to previous campaigns, we are still moving in the right direction. One thing we’ve had in the last few years is a lot of heart (mixed with skill at times as well). The players are in some ways lucky they have these games to try and atone for the bad performance last week so quickly. 

Most international teams are doing well to unearth 1 maybe 2 new players every year. We have been doing that or slightly better for the last 2 or 3 years so adding 1 potentially top player every year and we will be in a good position. For example over the past year or so we have found both Patterson and Hickey who can play the RWB role. Both are very young but bags of potential. We now need to invest in them and let them develop. They will both have bad games and drops in form but the manager and us fans need to see the bigger picture and not give them over the top stick and call for them to be dropped for players clearing not as good.

I also think we have had a clear identify over the past couple of years. 3421 with LCB ans RCB who are comfortable on the ball and can move into midfield. A CB who is more of an old school ball winner but comfortable enough to shift it on quickly.

Wing backs who can attack and defend, 2 CMs who are ball players but can also put in a shift (we need to move away from having pigeonhole players who can only do one thing in CM imo. 2 ACM who have high energy and good quality and then a CF who is big and strong, with a bit of pace and decent in front of goal.

We have had all that in recent seasons and have played some really good stuff. The issue seems to be that we shit the bed in big games and move away from that identity rather than doubling down on the belief that we are good enough to not have to change. If we can keep this model and just keep indentifying players who fit into it then we will keep improving.

That might mean that some eligable players might not get selected. Wingers who cant play ACM for example. Or it might limit opportunities for others due to playing in a position where there is only 1 role. Ie CB or CF but that can be good for competition and squad depth.

What it does mean is that when we have a player out like Tierney then we need to identify and play somebody who can play the same way. People have mentioned Kingsley as a possibility. What we cant do is stick Cooper or McKenna in there. Copper and McKenna should be competing with Hanley for CB imo although maybe thats harsh on McKenna as ive not seen much of him and he might be better on the ball than ive seen.

[breeks_mctavish]

9 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Most international teams are doing well to unearth 1 maybe 2 new players every year. We have been doing that or slightly better for the last 2 or 3 years so adding 1 potentially top player every year and we will be in a good position. For example over the past year or so we have found both Patterson and Hickey who can play the RWB role. Both are very young but bags of potential. We now need to invest in them and let them develop. They will both have bad games and drops in form but the manager and us fans need to see the bigger picture and not give them over the top stick and call for them to be dropped for players clearing not as good.

I also think we have had a clear identify over the past couple of years. 3421 with LCB ans RCB who are comfortable on the ball and can move into midfield. A CB who is more of an old school ball winner but comfortable enough to shift it on quickly.

Wing backs who can attack and defend, 2 CMs who are ball players but can also put in a shift (we need to move away from having pigeonhole players who can only do one thing in CM imo. 2 ACM who have high energy and good quality and then a CF who is big and strong, with a bit of pace and decent in front of goal.

We have had all that in recent seasons and have played some really good stuff. The issue seems to be that we shit the bed in big games and move away from that identity rather than doubling down on the belief that we are good enough to not have to change. If we can keep this model and just keep indentifying players who fit into it then we will keep improving.

That might mean that some eligable players might not get selected. Wingers who cant play ACM for example. Or it might limit opportunities for others due to playing in a position where there is only 1 role. Ie CB or CF but that can be good for competition and squad depth.

What it does mean is that when we have a player out like Tierney then we need to identify and play somebody who can play the same way. People have mentioned Kingsley as a possibility. What we cant do is stick Cooper or McKenna in there. Copper and McKenna should be competing with Hanley for CB imo although maybe thats harsh on McKenna as ive not seen much of him and he might be better on the ball than ive seen.

Good post. Only thing I’d add is that Clarke needs a plan for these big games. There’s a pattern where the better teams  don’t let us play and our heads go down, lose our shape and concede possession too easily. We need to at least find a way to be difficult to play against when the game is going against us - which it always will be for parts of games against better teams.

[vanderark14]

10 hours ago, kumnio said:

McTominay playing in defence because he is comfortable on the ball, im sorry, but he isn't an accomplished ball player, and he certainly isn't a bloody defender. Souttar is better on both issues for me, it was an absolutely ridiculous decision by Clarke to drop Souttar for McTominay.

I think Clarke will do with this on Wednesday, we don't have any wide players to play a 442 or similar.

Gordon

Souttar Hanley McKenna

Ralston Gilmour McGregor Robertson

McGinn Christie

Adam

Personally Id drop captain pisshead as well as a few others.

 

Captain pisshead? 🤣. Get a grip of yourself 

[stitch]

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

Captain pisshead? Get a grip of yourself

I agree it's a total joke when people start having a personal dig at players. He has had an outstanding season and so have a lot of the players. I still think it's the SFA who got it wrong we should never have agreed to play this game when we did for so many reasons.

Edited June 6, 2022 by stitch

[thplinth]

5 minutes ago, stitch said:

I agree it's a total joke when people start having a personal dig at players. He has had an outstanding season and so have a lot of the players. I still think it's the SFA who got it wrong we should never have agreed to play this game when we did for so many reasons.

I can't think of any tangible reason why they did agree.

The war steadily intensified after Russia invaded.

The fighting was relatively 'light' when the game was supposed to be played.

It was never going to be over anytime soon.

The UK government is part of a group of nations flooding the Ukraine with weapons.

So what did it achieve? Other than to rob us of our momentum and psychologically put us on the back foot when the game was eventually played.

We were on a real roll at the time but you would not know it watching that game the other night. I stopped watching after an hour... we barely landed a blow. It is hard to say why exactly looking from the outside. 

[ThistleWhistle]

I think it's fair enough having a dig at Robertson for prioritising a runners up parade over joining camp.

Maldini, Lahm, Ramos etc wouldn't be on a runners up piss up if they were captaining their nation 3 days later in a massive game - I'd bet their arses would be on the first flight available and into camp leading from the front.

Just another example of our mental deficiencies for me.

[stitch]

ThistleWhistle the fact that he was/had the chance that he was playing a few days before the most important game in 20 odd years and others should of been enough for the SFA not to play this game. We had players fighting relegation promotions playoff finals. Robertson and his team mates were 2 results off winning all 4 competitions for him to relax a bit is not out of order. You can also say SC got his tactics wrong. We missed 2 big players and then had what I call our other 3 great players out on there feet.

[kumnio]

2 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Captain pisshead? 🤣. Get a grip of yourself 

What, he is the captain, and he is a pisshead, he is also bang average for us without Tierney by his side. 

[vanderark14]

34 minutes ago, kumnio said:

What, he is the captain, and he is a pisshead, he is also bang average for us without Tierney by his side. 

ok

[Caledonian Craig]

So do you feel comfortable having 'Captain Pisshead' in our side then? And you are giving him this name because you saw him drinking on TV days before the match? I'd hazard a guess you'd be in for a big shock if you think all footballers are teetotal in run up to or aftermath of matches. I'd say vast majority of professional footballers drink alcohol in between matches. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Caledonian Craig

[Malcolm]

Brian clough had the Forrest team swigging from a bottle of whisky before they ran up the tunnel and they did alright!

[kumnio]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

So do you feel comfortable having 'Captain Pisshead' in our side then? And you are giving him this name because you saw him drinking on TV days before the match? I'd hazard a guess you'd be in for a big shock if you think all footballers are teetotal in run up to or aftermath of matches. I'd say vast majority of professional footballers drink alcohol in between matches. 

Wind your neck in 😂😂

Heaven forbid someone calls Robertson a disparaging comment on here 😯. 

[Orraloon]

2 hours ago, ThistleWhistle said:

I think it's fair enough having a dig at Robertson for prioritising a runners up parade over joining camp.

Maldini, Lahm, Ramos etc wouldn't be on a runners up piss up if they were captaining their nation 3 days later in a massive game - I'd bet their arses would be on the first flight available and into camp leading from the front.

Just another example of our mental deficiencies for me.

I think being Captain Pisshead isn't quite as bad as when he totally missed a hugely important game because his maw had to take him to the dentist. But these two incidents show why he shouldn't be captain of Scotland. Plus he often doesn't play very well for us. A strong manager would drop him (although Robbo might not be too unhappy about that) and make somebody else captain on Wednesday. If we win the game the new captain retains the captaincy. The manager shouldn't make any of this public, just keep it in house. Nobody would be surprised if Robbo doesn't play on Wednesday. Folk will just assume that he needs a rest. I don't think being captain is good for his game. Some players just can't handle the pressure of being captain.

[kumnio]

3 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I think being Captain Pisshead isn't quite as bad as when he totally missed a hugely important game because his maw had to take him to the dentist. But these two incidents show why he shouldn't be captain of Scotland. Plus he often doesn't play very well for us. A strong manager would drop him (although Robbo might not be too unhappy about that) and make somebody else captain on Wednesday. If we win the game the new captain retains the captaincy. The manager shouldn't make any of this public, just keep it in house. Nobody would be surprised if Robbo doesn't play on Wednesday. Folk will just assume that he needs a rest. I don't think being captain is good for his game. Some players just can't handle the pressure of being captain.

👍 +1

Bring back the whatever the hell the reaction thingys are called. 

[BraveheartGordon]

5 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

I think being Captain Pisshead isn't quite as bad as when he totally missed a hugely important game because his maw had to take him to the dentist. But these two incidents show why he shouldn't be captain of Scotland. Plus he often doesn't play very well for us. A strong manager would drop him (although Robbo might not be too unhappy about that) and make somebody else captain on Wednesday. If we win the game the new captain retains the captaincy. The manager shouldn't make any of this public, just keep it in house. Nobody would be surprised if Robbo doesn't play on Wednesday. Folk will just assume that he needs a rest. I don't think being captain is good for his game. Some players just can't handle the pressure of being captain.

You’re not supposed to fly with an abscessed tooth due to the pressure changes, if you’ve ever had a severe abscess you wouldn’t be downplaying the severity of it, I’d rather break my arm than have another tooth abscess.

I believe that was the first camp that Robertson missed in his time with Scotland, he’s always available and reliable and he’s the best player in the world in his position in my opinion.

His performance last week had nothing to do with the the previous weekend and everything to do with KT not being available to combine with on the left hand side.

[daviebee]

13 minutes ago, BraveheartGordon said:

You’re not supposed to fly with an abscessed tooth due to the pressure changes, if you’ve ever had a severe abscess you wouldn’t be downplaying the severity of it, I’d rather break my arm than have another tooth abscess.

I believe that was the first camp that Robertson missed in his time with Scotland, he’s always available and reliable and he’s the best player in the world in his position in my opinion.

His performance last week had nothing to do with the the previous weekend and everything to do with KT not being available to combine with on the left hand side.

👍 +1

Bring back the whatever the hell the reaction thingys are called. 

[Templeton_Peck]

Been in quite a few discussions since the game about Robbo drinking on the bus. I have to admit I was very surprised he was even on the bus and not back up the road since we had such a huge game 3 days later and him being captain.

I cant help but think the Ukrainians would have got a nice wee confidence boost seeing him swigging away with Calvin Harris. 

Do i think it was the deciding factor though? No chance. The first goal was key and we gave it away with criminal defending and it was definitely coming by that point as we were chasing shadows in midfield. 

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Templeton_Peck

[ThistleWhistle]

Bergkamp played in WC94 despite a fear of flying he developed at Inter including transfers between Washington, Orlando and Dallas. 

He'd often drive and take trains to big games still managing to wrack up 80 caps in 10 years.

Pretty sure Robertson could have postponed the dentist 

 

[ThistleWhistle]

5 minutes ago, Templeton_Peck said:

Been in quite a few discussions since the game about Robbo drinking on the bus. I have to admit I was very surprised he was even on the bus and not back up the road since we had such a huge game 3 days later and him being captain.

I cant help but think the Ukrainians would have got a nice wee confidence boost seeing him swigging away with Calvin Harris. 

Do i think it was the deciding factor though? No chance. The first goal was key and we gave it away with criminal defending and it was definitely coming by that point as we we were chasing shadows in midfield. 

 

I think mentally it contributes - if your captain is swanning in from a jolly that has potential to rub off on the team especially the ones who bothered their arse to turn up early 

 

[Texas Pete]

2 hours ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Bergkamp played in WC94 despite a fear of flying he developed at Inter including transfers between Washington, Orlando and Dallas. 

He'd often drive and take trains to big games still managing to wrack up 80 caps in 10 years.

Pretty sure Robertson could have postponed the dentist 

 

Are you suggesting Robertson should have cancelled the dentist and drove to Kazakhstan? You don’t half read some amount of pish on here but this is right up there with the best. 

If you mean he should have cancelled the dentist and flew to Kazakhstan he couldn’t fly as others have said. I’m sure you would have defied medical advice and flew with an abscess though as excruciating pain should be put to one side to play for Scotland, right? 

[Orraloon]

2 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

Are you suggesting Robertson should have cancelled the dentist and drove to Kazakhstan? You don’t half read some amount of pish on here but this is right up there with the best. 

If you mean he should have cancelled the dentist and flew to Kazakhstan he couldn’t fly as others have said. I’m sure you would have defied medical advice and flew with an abscess though as excruciating pain should be put to one side to play for Scotland, right? 

Do you think he would have missed the Champions League final in similar circumstances if was being played in Baku or Moscow?