Starting 11 v Ukraine

[mentalist]

The benefit of having McTominay playing CB in a back 5 is he can play the ball out of defence, link up with the midfield or even be a threat going forward. The problem is because he's not a natural defender he has and will make big mistakes against decent opposition. Thing is Clarke could probably get away with playing him there in the next few games, it'll (hopefully) yield positive results against inferior opposition  and he could make an argument for it making sense. Then we play a team like Ukraine or later in the year, erm Ukraine and it all unravels again. I don't have the answers either though, because any combination of the CB's in the squad that we have tried weren't exactly setting the heather on fire either. 

[ceudmilefailte]

31 minutes ago, mentalist said:

The benefit of having McTominay playing CB in a back 5 is he can play the ball out of defence, link up with the midfield or even be a threat going forward. The problem is because he's not a natural defender he has and will make big mistakes against decent opposition. Thing is Clarke could probably get away with playing him there in the next few games, it'll (hopefully) yield positive results against inferior opposition  and he could make an argument for it making sense. Then we play a team like Ukraine or later in the year, erm Ukraine and it all unravels again. I don't have the answers either though, because any combination of the CB's in the squad that we have tried weren't exactly setting the heather on fire either. 

I agree with what you are saying about McTominay. Tierney missing and an under performing Robertson meant our faults on the right side were easily exploited. Honestly think the reason O'Donnell has got away with it at international level is because we are so strong on the left the game drifts that way with bags of space left on the right (maybe Patterson isn't worth 14 million either for that matter)

I like Cooper and have bigging him up foryears in here, but he will never be able to play on the right of a back 3.I would have started with the same back three but would have realised my mistake before they scored.

It is very easy to change to a back 4 when you have a midfielder starting in defence. 

It was a blatant managerial mistake, much the same as the Croatia game. I'm not a football coach so maybe changing formation when the game is still live is not the done thing and you have to wait until there is 20 minutes left. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by ceudmilefailte

[Guest Scot1]

29 minutes ago, mentalist said:

The benefit of having McTominay playing CB in a back 5 is he can play the ball out of defence, link up with the midfield or even be a threat going forward. The problem is because he's not a natural defender he has and will make big mistakes against decent opposition. Thing is Clarke could probably get away with playing him there in the next few games, it'll (hopefully) yield positive results against inferior opposition  and he could make an argument for it making sense. Then we play a team like Ukraine or later in the year, erm Ukraine and it all unravels again. I don't have the answers either though, because any combination of the CB's in the squad that we have tried weren't exactly setting the heather on fire either. 

I think we should give Hendry and McKenna partnership a try in a back 4. The pair of them are just getting to a decent age  and have good experience. Souttar too is another who, hopefully if he stays injury free, will hopefully be a 1st team regular at Rangers next season and hopefully impress.

[Guest Scot1]

5 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

(maybe Patterson isn't worth 14 million either for that matter

In my opinion Patterson has the potential to be a top class right full back / wing back. If he reaches anywhere near his potential £14 million will seem a bargain 

[ceudmilefailte]

8 minutes ago, Scot1 said:

In my opinion Patterson has the potential to be a top class right full back / wing back. If he reaches anywhere near his potential £14 million will seem a bargain 

It's all very much still potential and looking good for Scotland in a wing back role isn't proving much. O'Donnell looks good there. 

I'm  all for changing to a back 4 if Tierney is missing but there isn't much between all our centre backs. At least Hanley and Cooper have top flight experience. I would have been more than happy if we had switched to a back four when they were on the pitch last night 

[Guest Scot1]

11 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

It's all very much still potential and looking good for Scotland in a wing back role isn't proving much. O'Donnell looks good there. 

I'm  all for changing to a back 4 if Tierney is missing but there isn't much between all our centre backs. At least Hanley and Cooper have top flight experience. I would have been more than happy if we had switched to a back four when they were on the pitch last night 

Well hopefully he will get his chance at Everton in the coming season. I believe in him, I think he will go on to be a fantastic full back / wing back. 
with regard to centre backs. I picked McKenna and Hendry, both are around the same age. I’d be tempted to pick them whenever both are available and try to get them to build an understanding, a partnership. Cooper and Hanley are getting closer to the end of their careers.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Scot1

[Caledonian Craig]

2 hours ago, thesaint said:

Would have been a simple solution to stop those comments. If they had played the way they could they could have won. Nobody to blame but themselves. 

My point was that, even though I was desperately disappointed with us last night, I don't judge them on one match especially when the performance was a one off terrible performance and maybe our worst in a couple of years. These fair weather fans are the type waiting for us to lose and then they pipe up but you won't hear them when we are winning.

[thesaint]

1 hour ago, Scot1 said:

I don’t believe that Clarke meant to deliberately set up his team to play route one football. But they are so imbalanced and against good opposition, we end up pinned back in our own half and the long ball is very often the only option.

If anything he had too many attack minded players on the pitch. 

You got to ask why he is putting out a team that is unbalanced.Down to him and no one else.He is starting to get on my wick a bit when i see him in interviews.How he can fire the players up is beyond me.Then again,after that shit last night maybe it explains a lot.

[thesaint]

3 minutes ago, thesaint said:

You got to ask why he is putting out a team that is unbalanced.Down to him and no one else.He is starting to get on my wick a bit when i see him in interviews.How he can fire the players up is beyond me.Then again,after that shit last night maybe it explains a lot.

I meant imbalanced not unbalanced,although now that i think about it.

[thesaint]

22 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

My point was that, even though I was desperately disappointed with us last night, I don't judge them on one match especially when the performance was a one off terrible performance and maybe our worst in a couple of years. These fair weather fans are the type waiting for us to lose and then they pipe up but you won't hear them when we are winning.

Well,i'm not a fair weather fan and i'm not happy with that level of performance in such a big game.If they can't be up for that sort of match we would be as well chucking it.Absolutely no bravery on the ball.There was a point in the second half where nobody was wanting to receive the ball.That's not the Scotland i want to see.

[Guest Scot1]

8 minutes ago, thesaint said:

You got to ask why he is putting out a team that is unbalanced.Down to him and no one else.He is starting to get on my wick a bit when i see him in interviews.How he can fire the players up is beyond me.Then again,after that shit last night maybe it explains a lot.

I agree, I wasn’t defending him. But I do think that we reverted to playing the long ball because we were pushed back and it was the only “out” ball. 
Id like to think Clarke and his staff will look at the performance of Ukraine as try to emulate how the dominated the game through possession of the ball. That’s what we need to aim at. 

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, thesaint said:

Well,i'm not a fair weather fan and i'm not happy with that level of performance in such a big game.If they can't be up for that sort of match we would be as well chucking it.Absolutely no bravery on the ball.There was a point in the second half where nobody was wanting to receive the ball.That's not the Scotland i want to see.

No I am talking about cretins like Souness and people on social media

[thesaint]

The only thing Souness is a fan of is....Souness.

[bigfingers]

We always used to raise our game at hampden against opposition of higher ranking, now it seems the opposite. We might actually do better away to Ukraine in the nations league. It will probably suit  our game better. 

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, bigfingers said:

We always used to raise our game at hampden against opposition of higher ranking, now it seems the opposite. We might actually do better away to Ukraine in the nations league. It will probably suit  our game better. 

Yes but conversely we used to be prone to slip-ups against lesser opposition. We need to find a balance. No doubting tactics/formation was all wrong last night. We need to be more flexible with a variety of formations to suit the players on the pitch.

[Stockholm 1980]

We looked like a tired team at the end of a long season. Ukraine looked like a “Tournament Ready” team after their 6 week training camp in the Slovenian Alps, Can’t help feel we got the shit end of the stick how this all planned out.

We weren’t set up right last night and looked like a team who hadn’t been advised how the opposition might play. Our right side Defence / Midfield was non existent and Ukraine looked a threat every time they moved down the left.

Robertson looks burnt out and I’m not sure if we’ll see him next Wednesday. 

The good feeling from the Autumn has evaporated but we need to get on track these next three games

 

 

[Diamond Scot]

5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Clarke's problem is he tries to create formations to allow him to accommodate what he sees as his best players on the pitch. Tierney is one example and McTominay being another. It may get him to play his best players but if they are played out of position you are diminishing their worth. This results from us being strong in certain positions where with  certain formations one or two of his preferred players would otherwise have to be left out.

Clarke has spoken about discussing the formation and the way we ppay with the players and they wanted to keep it like we have been with ball players either side of a more traditional CB. 

People are attacking McTom however by far and away or worst defender last night was Cooper who is a traditional CB.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 hour ago, Stockholm 1980 said:

We looked like a tired team at the end of a long season. Ukraine looked like a “Tournament Ready” team after their 6 week training camp in the Slovenian Alps, Can’t help feel we got the shit end of the stick how this all planned out.

We weren’t set up right last night and looked like a team who hadn’t been advised how the opposition might play. Our right side Defence / Midfield was non existent and Ukraine looked a threat every time they moved down the left.

Robertson looks burnt out and I’m not sure if we’ll see him next Wednesday. 

The good feeling from the Autumn has evaporated but we need to get on track these next three games

 

 

Totally agree 100%. Look how UEFA insisted on friendly slots to be taken up a few days before play-off to ensure both teams had equal schedule. Well where was Ukraine's international friendly a few days ago?

Edited June 2, 2022 by Caledonian Craig

[mccaughey85]

6 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

My patience is wearing very thin for Clarke. People say “look at where we were”, the bottom line is he has far better players at his disposal than previous managers. We’ve been negative and shite in the big games and I believe tactics and stubbornness are to blame. Overrun again, the players must be fuming with him for making them look shite. 

Lol you obviously dont have alot of patience. Clarke has improved us massively. Do you want him sacked and who do you think we could get that is better? 

I find the massive criticism of clarke by some ppl on here as utterly bizarre. Clarkes done well to get us to the play offs. Its disappointing that we couldnt qualify but the world cup is tough tournament for a squad of our ability to qualify for. Clarke should be judged on euro qualification. If he fails to get us to the next euros then we should be pissed off but so far hes done a great job.

[mccaughey85]

12 hours ago, Scot1 said:

The progress we have made, in my opinion is mostly due to the improvement in the class of player available in the squad. In my opinion this is the best group of players we’ve had in a long time. 
As far as replacement goes, I’m not sure, I don’t know a lot of managers except those in Scotland and a few down South. 

So whats the options here. We sack clarke and try and get someone better. Personally i dont think we would get someone alot better than clarke. I think clarke is a good fit for us. He gets the best out of average players as shown at wba and kilmarnock. Our current squad isnt particulary strong. Its slightly better than our previous squads but we still rely on average players who play in the championship or average spl teams. Guys like hanley and cooper are championship level centre backs,  european teams dont usuallly qualify for world cups with that level of players. Its a cold hard fact that its unlikely we will qualify for the world cup with a squad of our quality regardless of the manager in charge.

[Ally Bongo]

The "Class" of player in the Scotland squad, in the main, is mediocre 

Saying it's the best group of players we have had in a while isnt that much of a compliment

Our qualification record and performances do not lie

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

3 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

The "Class" of player in the Scotland squad, in the main, is mediocre 

Saying it's the best group of players we have had in a while isnt that much of a compliment

Our qualification record and performances do not lie

Ive thought for a few years we’ve had half a team of really decent players ; typically robbo/tierney/mcginn/gilmour/mcgregor/a n other/keeper decent

problem being our 2 centre forwards are minging ;out of depth against decent teams -che adams spent 45mins v ukraine in his arse looking for fouls - dykes nodding it on whilst checking out his tats

rest of defence is bombscarish too

Clarke is prob best we have ; but wish he change things around quicker when we re getting horsed

the fall of lee Griffiths has not been kind to our chances either

[Orraloon]

7 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Totally agree 100%. Look how UEFA insisted on friendly slots to be taken up a few days before play-off to ensure both teams had equal schedule. Well where was Ukraine's international friendly a few days ago?

Did Scotland have a friendly a few days before the semi final? I must have missed it.

It was nothing to do with making things equal, it was about filling TV slots.

[Orraloon]

2 hours ago, Auchinyell Sox Change said:

Ive thought for a few years we’ve had half a team of really decent players ; typically robbo/tierney/mcginn/gilmour/mcgregor/a n other/keeper decent

 

I would agree with that and probably add McTominay to that list. But against Ukraine only McGregor, out of that list, came through with pass marks. He was our best player by a mile, although the bar wasn't set very high. Robbo was awful. Tierney wasn't there. McGinn had his worst game for a long time, possibly ever. The game just passed by Gilmour because the ball was hardly ever less than three feet above his head. We were playing a team 12 places above us in the rankings and it showed. But we were so bad that it made us look like we could have been 30 places below them. 

[vanderark14]

We may have a better squad than we've had for a while but we don't have huge strength in depth. 

We were without two of our biggest threats in Patterson and Tierney. This was a bigger set back than I initially thought, I was hoping hickey could fill the void left by Patterson but he didn't. Robertson didn't get his usual support

Arguably our talisman Mcginn had a very poor match by his standards, as did the rest of the team. Even the captain says they never turned up.

All of the above and some want Clarke sacked for getting knocked our first playoff in years 🤣🤣🤣