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John McGinn - Where Does He Stand Amongst Past Greats For Scotland?


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John McGinn is, without doubt, the most influential player in our team at present. His value to us is enormous as he offers so much for the team. He has an impressive strike rate for us compared to a lot of our past great strikers and he is merely a midfielder. He also  is racking up the assists too and his renowned arse is used to great effect to shield the ball and hold off opponents leading to him winning countless free-kicks. His link-up play is excellent and he has a great engine on him where his pitch coverage is great.

Taking all that into account where does he stand in Scotland's greatest midfielders stakes? I am merely thinking about in form terms for Scotland and not about his league form or career or titles won. For me he is the most complete midfielder we have had since we stopped qualifying regularly for tournaments in 1998. I'd put him above the likes of Gary McAllister for us as he is consistently great whereas Macca was not. Thinking to the likes of John Collins my memories of him are foggier but already McGinn has scored more goals for us than Collins. I'd put him above Souness who was one who I always felt produced his best at club level rather than international level. Anyway leave your thoughts here and feel free to disagree.

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Apart from his absolutely mesmeric glutes the thing that really really endeared him to me was in a period of abject mediocrity, being kind, for the national team it was obvious he really gave a shit.

 

Having better players has been fundamental to us becoming better but he seemed to be the catalyst for it being more a joy than an onerous burden to play for Scotland again.      

 

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1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

John McGinn is, without doubt, the most influential player in our team at present. His value to us is enormous as he offers so much for the team. He has an impressive strike rate for us compared to a lot of our past great strikers and he is merely a midfielder. He also  is racking up the assists too and his renowned arse is used to great effect to shield the ball and hold off opponents leading to him winning countless free-kicks. His link-up play is excellent and he has a great engine on him where his pitch coverage is great.

Taking all that into account where does he stand in Scotland's greatest midfielders stakes? I am merely thinking about in form terms for Scotland and not about his league form or career or titles won. For me he is the most complete midfielder we have had since we stopped qualifying regularly for tournaments in 1998. I'd put him above the likes of Gary McAllister for us as he is consistently great whereas Macca was not. Thinking to the likes of John Collins my memories of him are foggier but already McGinn has scored more goals for us than Collins. I'd put him above Souness who was one who I always felt produced his best at club level rather than international level. Anyway leave your thoughts here and feel free to disagree.

I can't really comment beyond 1998 because I was too young to remember, but certainly since then I think he has become the most influential midfielder.

James McFadden wasn't quite an out and out striker, so if he is allowed, I'd say he is the closest. McGinn has maybe overtaken him since he has played in a tournament, but there is very little between them.

I think Maloney could have been spoken in the same way if he hadn't had so many injury issues.

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4 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I can't really comment beyond 1998 because I was too young to remember, but certainly since then I think he has become the most influential midfielder.

James McFadden wasn't quite an out and out striker, so if he is allowed, I'd say he is the closest. McGinn has maybe overtaken him since he has played in a tournament, but there is very little between them.

I think Maloney could have been spoken in the same way if he hadn't had so many injury issues.

McFadden is a good shout but was a totally different player. The kind that you'd look for a piece of magic to turn a game but I don't think he ticks as many boxes as McGinn. As for Maloney he was more like a lesser McFadden whose producing of magic was a little less than we saw from McFadden in my opinion.

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3 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

John McGinn is, without doubt, the most influential player in our team at present. His value to us is enormous as he offers so much for the team. He has an impressive strike rate for us compared to a lot of our past great strikers and he is merely a midfielder. He also  is racking up the assists too and his renowned arse is used to great effect to shield the ball and hold off opponents leading to him winning countless free-kicks. His link-up play is excellent and he has a great engine on him where his pitch coverage is great.

Taking all that into account where does he stand in Scotland's greatest midfielders stakes? I am merely thinking about in form terms for Scotland and not about his league form or career or titles won. For me he is the most complete midfielder we have had since we stopped qualifying regularly for tournaments in 1998. I'd put him above the likes of Gary McAllister for us as he is consistently great whereas Macca was not. Thinking to the likes of John Collins my memories of him are foggier but already McGinn has scored more goals for us than Collins. I'd put him above Souness who was one who I always felt produced his best at club level rather than international level. Anyway leave your thoughts here and feel free to disagree.

If you are restricting it to post 1998 then you can't really include Collins or McAllister. Collins only played 5 of his 58 caps after 1998 and Gary McAllister only play once after 1998. And Souness had been retired for 12 years in 1998.

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41 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

If you are restricting it to post 1998 then you can't really include Collins or McAllister. Collins only played 5 of his 58 caps after 1998 and Gary McAllister only play once after 1998. And Souness had been retired for 12 years in 1998.

No I wasn't restricting it to post 1998. Tartan Blood just stating he could not judge any further back than 1998 as he is too young to remember players before that. My original post I was open to all our midfielders across the decades.

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1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

No I wasn't restricting it to post 1998. Tartan Blood just stating he could not judge any further back than 1998 as he is too young to remember players before that. My original post I was open to all our midfielders across the decades.

12 goals from 14 matches from a midfielder. Nothing more to be said.To think StevenThompson nearly finished his career when at St. Mirren by impaling him with a pole used at training.

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53 minutes ago, thesaint said:

12 goals from 14 matches from a midfielder. Nothing more to be said.To think StevenThompson nearly finished his career when at St. Mirren by impaling him with a pole used at training.

Who was that, did I miss something? 

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55 minutes ago, thesaint said:

12 goals from 14 matches from a midfielder. Nothing more to be said.To think StevenThompson nearly finished his career when at St. Mirren by impaling him with a pole used at training.

Figured it out you meant 44 games not 14.

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2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

No I wasn't restricting it to post 1998. Tartan Blood just stating he could not judge any further back than 1998 as he is too young to remember players before that. My original post I was open to all our midfielders across the decades.

Ah right, got you now.

He isn't really the same style of midfielder that we have had in the past. When he is pushed forward, like he he has been recently, I would say he is more like Dalglish in style. Dalglish was a forward but he played a bit deeper than most. Almost the same position that McGinn does. He was also very good at using his arse. That was in the days when tackling from behind was still allowed. Dalglish didn't get as many fouls as McGinn does, when defenders bounced off his arse.

Edited by Orraloon
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16 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Ah right, got you now.

He isn't really the same style of midfielder that we have had in the past. When he is pushed forward, like he he has been recently, I would say he is more like Dalglish in style. Dalglish was a forward but he played a bit deeper than most. Almost the same position that McGinn does. He was also very good at using his arse. That was in the days when tackling from behind was still allowed. Dalglish didn't get as many fouls as McGinn does, when defenders bounced off his arse.


this is right, dalglish was an inside forward and often listed as a midfielder (rarely wore number 9, often 7/8/10 which were second striker/inside forward role, and I would say Mcginn plays in a similar position for us as when Kenny played in the midfield.  Strachan and Hartford often played as similar.

souness was a totally different player to Mcginn, an enforcer, and one of our best midfielders of all time.  I wouldn’t put Mcginn in that category yet, but certainly up there with best players of last 30 years.

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On 4/1/2022 at 11:04 AM, Caledonian Craig said:

Thinking to the likes of John Collins my memories of him are foggier but already McGinn has scored more goals for us than Collins. 

Not quite, JC also scored 12 times for Scotland. 

I think our current midfield three are our best since Collins, Lambert and McAllister. Are they ahead of them, possibly not yet, those guys played a significant part in title wins in major club competitions. McGinn, McGregor and Gilmour still have a good few years to go (fingers crossed) and hopefully even better things to come for them.

 

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1 hour ago, Toepoke said:

Not quite, JC also scored 12 times for Scotland. 

I think our current midfield three are our best since Collins, Lambert and McAllister. Are they ahead of them, possibly not yet, those guys played a significant part in title wins in major club competitions. McGinn, McGregor and Gilmour still have a good few years to go (fingers crossed) and hopefully even better things to come for them.

 

I prefer judging them purely at international level. It is an irrelevance what they achieved at club level as it bears no connection to international form which we are discussing here and besides top club players often do not reproduce at international level.

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3 hours ago, Malcolm said:


this is right, dalglish was an inside forward and often listed as a midfielder (rarely wore number 9, often 7/8/10 which were second striker/inside forward role, and I would say Mcginn plays in a similar position for us as when Kenny played in the midfield.  Strachan and Hartford often played as similar.

souness was a totally different player to Mcginn, an enforcer, and one of our best midfielders of all time.  I wouldn’t put Mcginn in that category yet, but certainly up there with best players of last 30 years.

I didn't know that about Dalglish. That makes scoring 30 goals even more impressive if he wasn't an out and out Centre Forward.

I think only McFadden is comparable to McGinn right now. In terms of overall importance, of any position, Craig Gordon must be up there. I'd class him, McGinn and McFadden in the same category: players capable of world class performances.

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The other day I read something online which siad that in the last 50 years only 5 players had scored more goals for Scotland than John McGinn - Dalglish, Mo J, Super Ally, Kenny Miller and Faddy.

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I'd like to mention Bruce Rioch circa 1978; great player who could run, pass, tackle and score and was skipper. McGinn is now our most valuable midfielder. Just a pity that he doesn't score regularly in the EPL which would increase his confidence even more. He's a bit like David Healy for NI in that regard - scores regularly for his country but not so much for club.

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No doubt that hat having him in the team is great for his all round play and goal threat.

Looking back a few players not mentioned would be Billy Bremner, Paul McStay and Gordon Strachan who were all excellent players for us.

Also a mention to wee Archie for his all round work rate and that goal v Netherlands.

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37 minutes ago, robbo cop said:

No doubt that hat having him in the team is great for his all round play and goal threat.

Looking back a few players not mentioned would be Billy Bremner, Paul McStay and Gordon Strachan who were all excellent players for us.

Also a mention to wee Archie for his all round work rate and that goal v Netherlands.

Good call with Strachan, I would say that is the bar, and very little between them now. 

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  • 1 month later...
Posted (edited)

McGinn is real quality, but in my opinion is wasted in midfield. As mentioned in previous post, he is reminiscent of Dalglish, As a Livi fc fan, he also reminds me of a better version of David Fernandez, another second striker/ centre forward. 
I will put another name out there who I think he is similar too. Wayne Rooney. 
McGinn needs to be played up front, off a finisher / poacher. I’d go with Ross Stewart. 
But like the names mentioned, Dalglish, Rooney, John McGinn will cause problems for just about any defence, if played further up the park and allowed to roam and pick up pockets of space.

Edited by Scot1
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  • 2 weeks later...
10 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

McGinn offers far more in terms of goals.


he does, but he needs to as we now play with one forward, sometimes two, whereas asa usually had three forwards in his team- a winger (Johnston, Graham or Robertson) Dalglish and Jordan.

I am looking at his achievements more broadly - both play for mid table top division English clubs. Asa was a very good footballer.

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