Ally Bongo Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Malcolm said: Surely we can’t stand by while themrussians actively targeting childrens hospitals Did they ? News just in - Collateral damage happens in all Wars and most is accidental and not planned As does casualties from friendly fire The West cannot play that card as we have been involved in most of these incidents where it happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialisedOutsourcing Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 I predict thplinth and Calton jock lead with the news of a chemical attack on Russian civilians tomorrow: Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 27 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: Did they ? News just in - Collateral damage happens in all Wars and most is accidental and not planned As does casualties from friendly fire The West cannot play that card as we have been involved in most of these incidents where it happens not sure the point you are making here? Are you suggesting that they didn’t target it?  There have been far too many hospitals hit for this to be accidental. War crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialisedOutsourcing Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 The FSB for those unaware, is the post-Soviet name for the KGB.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally Bongo Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Malcolm said: not sure the point you are making here? Are you suggesting that they didn’t target it?  There have been far too many hospitals hit for this to be accidental. War crimes. I (along with many others on twatter) have already been caught out by the propaganda where something that looks cut and dried - wasnt The Russian angle was that Ukranian forces were using the hospital as a strategic position and they warned them that they were going to shell it and to get everyone out As far as i know there are no reports of anyone being killed so go figure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialisedOutsourcing Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: Did they ? News just in - Collateral damage happens in all Wars and most is accidental and not planned As does casualties from friendly fire The West cannot play that card as we have been involved in most of these incidents where it happens Fair point - but they’ve hit 18 now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialisedOutsourcing Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said: I (along with many others on twatter) have already been caught out by the propaganda where something that looks cut and dried - wasnt The Russian angle was that Ukranian forces were using the hospital as a strategic position and they warned them that they were going to shell it and to get everyone out As far as i know there are no reports of anyone being killed so go figure Ok - but the numerous opponents of Putin that have “fallen” out of windows and mysteriously drank poisoned tea give you no cause for concern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialisedOutsourcing Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Could be fake news who knows? still recommend everyone watch on all good streaming services:Â Winter on Fire: Ukraine's Fight for Freedom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialisedOutsourcing Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, SpecialisedOutsourcing said: Could be fake news who knows? still recommend everyone watch on all good streaming services: Winter on Fire: Ukraine's Fight for Freedom The film explains everything as to what is happening in Ukraine now - if you haven’t watched it yet and are posting on this thread, stop and watch it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 5 hours ago, Ally Bongo said: I (along with many others on twatter) have already been caught out by the propaganda where something that looks cut and dried - wasnt The Russian angle was that Ukranian forces were using the hospital as a strategic position and they warned them that they were going to shell it and to get everyone out As far as i know there are no reports of anyone being killed so go figure  well I guess it comes down to what you believe.  The great British media known for its free speech  or the Russian media run by a dictator.  And I don’t just mean the bbc, which for some reason people here get their knickers in a twist over, but channel 4 and sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Nuland confirms the existence of the bio labs. Probably because she knew this had happened... things are already starting to get incredibly dangerous for us all. If this true what the hell is the US doing here. https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/03/breaking-video-russia-tells-us-found-biological-weapons-video/ The Director of the Information and Press Department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, Maria Vladimirovna Zakharova, told the United States on Wednesday, “We have found your biological weapons!” “There was statement made by the Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, leave no doubt, will not give Washington to be silent this time. Their attempts, while spilling blood, to find biological and chemical weapons throughout the world. We have found your own products. We have found your biological material. As it turns out it was all happening in Ukraine,” RT, Russia state-affiliated media  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Another early start in South America. Â You have to admire his commitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamia Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 9 hours ago, Malcolm said: not sure the point you are making here? Are you suggesting that they didn’t target it?  There have been far too many hospitals hit for this to be accidental. War crimes.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParisInAKilt Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 https://scheerpost.com/2022/02/27/hedges-the-greatest-evil-is-war/ Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 16 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said: https://scheerpost.com/2022/02/27/hedges-the-greatest-evil-is-war/ Â thats a good article. Â Only a moron would not agree that war is terrible. Â Perhaps the only thing worse is a dictator walking in to a sovereign nation and taking it without democracy. That is the terrible dilemma of this. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 https://greenwald.substack.com/p/victoria-nuland-ukraine-has-biological?s=w Self-anointed "fact-checkers” in the U.S. corporate press have spent two weeks mocking as disinformation and a false conspiracy theory the claim that Ukraine has biological weapons labs, either alone or with U.S. support. They never presented any evidence for their ruling — how could they possibly know? and how could they prove the negative? — but nonetheless they invoked their characteristically authoritative, above-it-all tone of self-assurance and self-arrogated right to decree the truth and label such claims false. This is from RT via another site. Very disturbing claims. https://williambowles.info/2022/03/07/russia-makes-new-claims-on-us-financed-biolabs-in-ukraine/ The US has “covered” Ukraine with a network of biolaboratories linked to the Pentagon, the Russian Defense Ministry says The Ukrainian authorities have been urgently destroying pathogens studied at its laboratories linked to the US Department of Defense, the Russian military claimed on Monday, adding that such activities hint at the military purposes of these studies. As many as 30 biological laboratories have been established in Ukraine that are actively cooperating with the US military, the commander of the Russian radiological, chemical and biological defense force, Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov, said at a news briefing on Monday. The list of these laboratories’ partners includes the Pentagon’s Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) and the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research (WRAIR) – the largest biomedical research facility administered by the US military; the general added. Many of these laboratories have been active since the 2014 coup d’état in Ukraine and their emergence in the country has coincided with a spike in infectious diseases in the region, including German measles, diphtheria and tuberculosis, the Russian military said.  You have to assume this stuff is already in the hands of the neo-nazis. And they will use them for sure and try to frame the Russians. It is almost a certainty at this point. The only hope is that they somehow managed to keep them out of their hands. The idea that Russia would use them is utter bollocks. If Russia wanted to use these weapons they could have just made their own. This is really grim news. It is making me feel a bit sick just reading about it. Just got a terrible feeling something really bad will happen now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 This will cheer you up though... might even give one of you in particular a stauner. How did we just kill a billion people?” Over just three days, as I have done countless times over the last several years, a group of past and present senior U.S. government officials from both sides of the aisle gathered to wage a NATO-Russia war in a simulation at the end of 2019. In the course of what we called the NATO-Russia War of 2019, we estimated one billion people died. And if we aren’t careful, what happened in a simulation could happen if a NATO-Russia war erupts over Ukraine. In fact, in the simulation I mentioned above from 2019, in which Russia invades Ukraine in a similar way as it did over the last week or so, not only does NATO get sucked in unintentionally, but Russia eventually releases nuclear weapons in its desperation. The result is an eventual escalation of bigger and more dangerous nuclear weapons whereby over one billion lives are lost. But before we start staring into the abyss, allow me to explain the goal of such simulations. NATO clearly would have a massive conventional advantage in any war with Moscow, ensuring that in a straight-up fight Putin would lose. However, Russia has stated time and time again it will use nuclear weapons to defend its territory and its regime if it feels mortally threatened. Our simulation always seems to ask: Can we ever defeat Russian President Vladamir Putin in an armed conflict over Ukraine or the Baltics and not start a nuclear war in the process? So far, over at least several years, and with at least 100 different participants that all held different ideas about war and political allegiances, the answer is a flat out no. https://thefederalist.com/2022/03/04/nato-involvement-in-ukraine-could-spark-nuclear-genocide-heres-how-it-could-happen/  Every fucking time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) Putin has said it clearly. They believe this is an existential battle. i.e. a battle for their very existence. Whatever you believe is irrelevant, what is important is that the Russians believe it, and I think they really do. We are dancing really close to the edge now where this thing can go out of control. As was quoted above, The US (and Israel, because make no mistake this is another neocon driven war) are prepared to defend Ukraine down to the last European life. Edited March 10, 2022 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hertsscot Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 Abramovich has just joined the list of oligarchs getting sanctioned. Bit of a dumb question so forgive me. Are these guys primarily getting sanctioned as punishment for their links to Putin or so that they can put pressure on Putin? If these oligarchs are so dodgy then why weren't these sanctions imposed years ago. Is it as simple as saying they were funding Tory coffers and Tories turned a blind eye? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhumper Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 13 minutes ago, Hertsscot said: Abramovich has just joined the list of oligarchs getting sanctioned. Bit of a dumb question so forgive me. Are these guys primarily getting sanctioned as punishment for their links to Putin or so that they can put pressure on Putin? If these oligarchs are so dodgy then why weren't these sanctions imposed years ago. Is it as simple as saying they were funding Tory coffers and Tories turned a blind eye? I'm guessing 1) they have funded/fund him 2) are close to him. If they start to see their wealth drop like a stone then they might just well put pressure on him to the extent he has to change tact. One thing is for sure, all these billionaires won't be friends with him for long if this keeps up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, thplinth said: Putin has said it clearly. They believe this is an existential battle. i.e. a battle for their very existence. Whatever you believe is irrelevant, what is important is that the Russians believe it, and I think they really do. We are dancing really close to the edge now where this thing can go out of control. As was quoted above, The US (and Israel, because make no mistake this is another neocon driven war) are prepared to defend Ukraine down to the last European life. I don’t agree with you on much, but I kind of agree with you on this.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Abramovich is another Yeltsin era character who acquired enormous stakes in shady circumstances. When Putin showed up he told all of them they could keep their ill gotten wealth but to stay out of politics. Abramovich was one who took the deal. He bought Chelsea to get out of Russia and to signal his intent to pursue other interests, it also gave him a much higher profile which I think was to make it harder for Putin to asset strip him and jail him if it came to it. But Abramovich is one of the few Yeltsin era ones to have actually cultured a good relationship with Putin. I think he decided to make Putin an ally, probably because he agreed with what he was doing in Russia but who knows... So ironically he fled to London to protect his wealth from Putin and now has seen chunks of it frozen by London for making-up with Putin. Pretty unlucky really! Abramovich is a multibillionaire and will have money all over the world. He will hire a fleet of extremely good lawyers, QCs whatever he needs and he will eventually get it all back. He had nothing to do with any of this and is being punished solely for being friends with Putin. Will likely take years to get it all back though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) Remember Boris? He is a really shady one. Also tied into Abramovich and of course the Litvinenko affair... Ended up broke, in debt and hanging himself in a bathroom in his mansion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Berezovsky_(businessman) A lot of them fled Putin to the UK. Very shady characters. Abramovich was unusual in that he seems to have rehabilitated himself with Putin. Interestingly Boris asked Abramovich to hand deliver a written apology to Putin, which he did. Seems it was not accepted as he never got home to Russia. If he was killed it was probably by our side for doing that but more likely (IMHO) it was just a suicide by someone out of options. Edited March 10, 2022 by thplinth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaid Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 15 minutes ago, thplinth said: Remember Boris? He is a really shady one. Also tied into Abramovich and of course the Litvinenko affair... Ended up broke, in debt and hanging himself in a bathroom in his mansion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Berezovsky_(businessman) A lot of them fled Putin to the UK. Very shady characters. Abramovich was unusual in that he seems to have rehabilitated himself with Putin. Interestingly Boris asked Abramovich to hand deliver a written apology to Putin, which he did. Seems it was not accepted as he never got home to Russia. If he was killed it was probably by our side for doing that but more likely (IMHO) it was just a suicide by someone out of options. "our side" - so Putin then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 The Litvnenko affair (2006) was a propaganda operation and so are the Skripals (2018). 'They' have been running endless Putin / Russia propaganda stories continually for years to maintain this 'Putin / Russia is evil narrative' in people's minds in what now looks like a prelude to a planned war in Ukraine, engineering 'consent' for the war. A war that was likely originally planned for 5 or 6 years ago and was only delayed by the surprise win of Trump. The whole Russia - Trump collusion hoax was to make it impossible for Trump to become friendly with Putin and back the conflict down and make peace. (Which is exactly what Trump was talking about when he first started campaigning). That is why they went absolutely mental at Trump's win. I think the propaganda has been very successful as it seems that most of the UK public think Putin is evil, mad, demonic. Propaganda works. When companies do it it is called advertising. They would not be spending all that money for nothing if it did not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.