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Scotland Ukraine. Will it go head?….


Malcolm

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5 hours ago, jailender said:

Seriously, with what's going on just now, does anyone really care about a game of football when people are dying!

Agree with this totally, the lack of empathy from some is eye opening 

The way people are putting a game of football ahead of the war crimes that have been going on is astounding 

Im a massive fan i've been like a kid on Christmas day since the Danish game excitedly waiting for these playoffs and very hopefully we could do it, however in all reality playing a game of football to try and get to the world cup has suddenly become of little interest in the great scheme 

The ones who are moaning that they will be left out of pocket or will experience some inconvenience - well i hope you never have to experience what the Ukrainians are going through now  

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2 hours ago, Bristolhibby said:

Not being funny, but do Scotland not have a say in this? We surely must be consulted. I would like the SFA to take the great expense that fans would have gone to. As has been said, if not now then when. Field a team or 3-0 Scotland.

J

Could you imagine the SFA coming out with "I know Ukraine have been invaded by one of the world's great super powers and their cities are getting reduced to rubble but Jimmy from Elgin has spent £34 on a non-refundable train ticket so stick your postponement request" 

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14 minutes ago, borojock said:

Agree with this totally, the lack of empathy from some is eye opening 

The way people are putting a game of football ahead of the war crimes that have been going on is astounding 

Im a massive fan i've been like a kid on Christmas day since the Danish game excitedly waiting for these playoffs and very hopefully we could do it, however in all reality playing a game of football to try and get to the world cup has suddenly become of little interest in the great scheme 

The ones who are moaning that they will be left out of pocket or will experience some inconvenience - well i hope you never have to experience what the Ukrainians are going through now  

Where has anyone suggested that a football game is more important than the current situation in Ukraine?

There are always a million things  more important than football happening in the world but it doesn't stop people from caring about football. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Dodger said:

Could you imagine the SFA coming out with "I know Ukraine have been invaded by one of the world's great super powers and their cities are getting reduced to rubble but Jimmy from Elgin has spent £34 on a non-refundable train ticket so stick your postponement request" 

The game will have to be played or it won’t be played. Don’t see why we have to delay that decision.

The impact to the football calendar will affect 6 FAs.

Us, Ukrainians, Welsh, Austrians, Irish and Armenians. 
 

If the game can’t be played now I’ll bet your house it don’t be played in June. Males over 18 can’t leave the country, it will be the same in June.

There are enough Ukrainians outside the Ukraine to put a team together, if they can’t then 3-0 Scotland.

J

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19 minutes ago, loanhead-tartan said:

Now that a humanitarian corridor has been agreed , can the 6/8 Ukraine based players not be safely evacuated in order for them to have a full strength squad ? 

Males over 18 can’t leave and have been conscripted. Being a footballer wouldn’t cut it as an excuse.

J

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8 minutes ago, Dodger said:

Where has anyone suggested that a football game is more important than the current situation in Ukraine?

 

 

There are people on the board moaning that if the match is rearranged for June they'll be out of pocket for travel they have booked for NL games.

Thousands are dying, families split up & people are packing their lives up into a small bag. People need to take a look at themselves.

If we had any morals we'd be boycotting the WC in Qatar anyway.

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4 minutes ago, scottincarlisle said:

There are people on the board moaning that if the match is rearranged for June they'll be out of pocket for travel they have booked for NL games.

Thousands are dying, families split up & people are packing their lives up into a small bag. People need to take a look at themselves.

If we had any morals we'd be boycotting the WC in Qatar anyway.

The point is and I admit out of pocket is just one of them. 
 

They won’t be able to play the game in two months if they can’t play now.

The absolute worst (and I think this will happen) is they post pone it then have to inevitably cancel it.

It’s just kicking the decision can down the road.

J

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16 minutes ago, Dodger said:

Where has anyone suggested that a football game is more important than the current situation in Ukraine?

There are always a million things  more important than football happening in the world but it doesn't stop people from caring about football. 

 

We’re all football daft. The argument is with the play now or stand aside brigade. Sure there eventually has to be a cutoff for the World Cup to go ahead. That cutoff is not March. Even if the war is still going in a few months, Ukraine might find a path to field a team, maybe not. They should at least be given the chance to do so. We owe them that at the very least.

I would not like to count on a lot of the people on here in a crisis, that’s for sure! Show a wee bit of patience and compassion. We will get our shot at this. Ukraine might not.

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37 minutes ago, breeks_mctavish said:

We’re all football daft. The argument is with the play now or stand aside brigade. Sure there eventually has to be a cutoff for the World Cup to go ahead. That cutoff is not March. Even if the war is still going in a few months, Ukraine might find a path to field a team, maybe not. They should at least be given the chance to do so. We owe them that at the very least.

I would not like to count on a lot of the people on here in a crisis, that’s for sure! Show a wee bit of patience and compassion. We will get our shot at this. Ukraine might not.

Well said. A bit of compassion for their situation isn't very hard for us to do. 

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33 minutes ago, Grim Jim said:

Can see us playing the June game for both competitions, then only the final vs Wales/Austria needs re-arranged.   No extra time though, or we're disadvantaged vs Ireland  a few days later.

 

They won’t play the game for both competitions as they’re under different jurisdictions.  What might be more likely is that if the June game can go ahead then it’s the playoff rather than the Nations League and that game gets shunted until later in the season.

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There’s not much point in debating it anymore IMO. It’s going to be moved to June and a couple of nations league games punted back to November. I expect we’ll probably play a friendly at Hampden v Poland this month.  A good idea would have been to play the Armenia nations league game at Hampden on the 24th but they’ve got a friendly lined up v Montenegro. 

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If Fifa/Uefa decide to delay the playoffs, even if just for a couple of months, there is a very serious ramification for any fans of Wales, Ukraine, Austria or Scotland who would like to attend the World Cup. They will have big problems trying to find anywhere to stay in Qatar. There is an acute shortage of hotel rooms in the country. Reports suggest there will be at best 70,000 hotel rooms available. Even if you add in the 4,000 extra rooms being proposed on a cruise ship and the 10,000 that was being suggested for a tented village in the dessert (that will be fun?), it’s a woeful number. Going by past FIFA practices the actual number will likely actually be even less, as FIFA always block book loads of rooms for all the officials, teams and invited guests. 

 
You still can’t actually book any rooms at the moment because the Qatar ‘committee’ in charge (!) hasn’t yet sanctioned their release via the single web site that will look after all hotel reservations. When they are eventually made available (likely immediately after the draw has been made in early April), there will be a minimum stay requirement of 2 nights and it has been reported that these rooms will be made available on a first come, first served basis.
 
For the group stages there will be fans from 31 countries chasing these rooms. If you assume 3 fans per room (?), then the room supply runs out if on average each team has a travelling support of 8,000 fans. Admittedly some of the minnow teams won’t take that many, but the South American teams in particular and the big name European teams typically take a lot more.
 
Airbnb might take up some of the slack, but Qatar is a tiny country and I haven’t seen any suggestions on how many extra rooms that sector might generate.
 
My point is this. If our playoff game(s) are delayed, by the time we know who will have qualified from our 4 team group, all the hotel accommodation will likely have long since evaporated.
 
This will be the 11th World Cup I will have attended. I’ve only seen Scotland in four of these, but I’ve happily got into the habit of still enjoying the tournaments, attending as a neutral. However I’ll be honest, I’m not looking forward to this one. Because of the likely accommodation shortage, we’ve only applied for tickets for 2 games, the last 2 quarterfinals, when there should in theory be a lot less fans chasing hotel rooms. The results of the 1st FIFA ticket application ballot will be announced next week, so we’ll know then whether we’ve secured any tickets. We’ll likely fail, but past experience says if we persevere online, we should get them in the later ticket phase sales.
 
My original plan was not to stay in Qatar (I’ve been there, there is nothing to see), we were going to commute in and out for individual games. However Qatar Airways have made that difficult, raising their prices by about 4 times. All other airlines have followed suit. A day return flight from any nearby country typically costs about £1,000!
 
If Scotland so qualify, then all of the Supporters Club members will likely be guaranteed tickets for the 3 group games. But be prepared to fork out big time to actually get there and see those games.

 

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9 hours ago, Rich NATA said:

 

Ukraine have enough players outwith Ukraine to collate a squad - Almost all from top flight European clubs.

Can they though? From what I've heard, this is the equivalent of if all UK based Scottish players couldn't play and we had to field a team of oveseas based players. We could get a few from the US, a handful dotted around Europe and I'm guessing some in Australia. Yes, we could field a team, but a team that would get dismantled. I don't think anyone would want that to go ahead.

Granted, some of Ukraine's best players play outside Ukraine, but would that be enough to field a strong enough 11 plus subs, to make it worth playing? I genuinely don't know the answer to this, but I'd imagine not.

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37 minutes ago, tartanb said:

 

If Fifa/Uefa decide to delay the playoffs, even if just for a couple of months, there is a very serious ramification for any fans of Wales, Ukraine, Austria or Scotland who would like to attend the World Cup. They will have big problems trying to find anywhere to stay in Qatar. There is an acute shortage of hotel rooms in the country. Reports suggest there will be at best 70,000 hotel rooms available. Even if you add in the 4,000 extra rooms being proposed on a cruise ship and the 10,000 that was being suggested for a tented village in the dessert (that will be fun?), it’s a woeful number. Going by past FIFA practices the actual number will likely actually be even less, as FIFA always block book loads of rooms for all the officials, teams and invited guests. 

 
You still can’t actually book any rooms at the moment because the Qatar ‘committee’ in charge (!) hasn’t yet sanctioned their release via the single web site that will look after all hotel reservations. When they are eventually made available (likely immediately after the draw has been made in early April), there will be a minimum stay requirement of 2 nights and it has been reported that these rooms will be made available on a first come, first served basis.
 
For the group stages there will be fans from 31 countries chasing these rooms. If you assume 3 fans per room (?), then the room supply runs out if on average each team has a travelling support of 8,000 fans. Admittedly some of the minnow teams won’t take that many, but the South American teams in particular and the big name European teams typically take a lot more.
 
Airbnb might take up some of the slack, but Qatar is a tiny country and I haven’t seen any suggestions on how many extra rooms that sector might generate.
 
My point is this. If our playoff game(s) are delayed, by the time we know who will have qualified from our 4 team group, all the hotel accommodation will likely have long since evaporated.
 
This will be the 11th World Cup I will have attended. I’ve only seen Scotland in four of these, but I’ve happily got into the habit of still enjoying the tournaments, attending as a neutral. However I’ll be honest, I’m not looking forward to this one. Because of the likely accommodation shortage, we’ve only applied for tickets for 2 games, the last 2 quarterfinals, when there should in theory be a lot less fans chasing hotel rooms. The results of the 1st FIFA ticket application ballot will be announced next week, so we’ll know then whether we’ve secured any tickets. We’ll likely fail, but past experience says if we persevere online, we should get them in the later ticket phase sales.
 
My original plan was not to stay in Qatar (I’ve been there, there is nothing to see), we were going to commute in and out for individual games. However Qatar Airways have made that difficult, raising their prices by about 4 times. All other airlines have followed suit. A day return flight from any nearby country typically costs about £1,000!
 
If Scotland so qualify, then all of the Supporters Club members will likely be guaranteed tickets for the 3 group games. But be prepared to fork out big time to actually get there and see those games.

 

£1k return from Dubai and Bahrain? I read a while back that consideration was being given to put on free day return flights from Dubai for anyone with a match ticket? 

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Plenty of folk are getting on their high horse complaining that this is all inconsequential in relation to the war in Ukraine. Does everything have to be black and white, either / or? Is it not possible to recognise the magnitude of the situation in Ukraine while also still caring about football and having an opinion on how this situation is resolved? I mean, the folk at FIFA / UEFA / SFA will be wracking their brains about what to do. What's wrong with us doing that? Doesn't necessarily mean we're insensitive. There may be one or two who are, but I imagine most folk are horrified by what's happening over there. Lets not forget that this is a football forum, and the beauty of football is that, in the grand scheme of things, it's utterly meaningless and can be a good distraction from the horrors of life.

My view is that if Ukraine want to go ahead with the fixture then great. And if they would like a postponement then we should respect that as it's a hellish situation at present. But of course there will have to be a cut off.

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1 hour ago, Tartan blood said:

Can they though? From what I've heard, this is the equivalent of if all UK based Scottish players couldn't play and we had to field a team of oveseas based players. We could get a few from the US, a handful dotted around Europe and I'm guessing some in Australia. Yes, we could field a team, but a team that would get dismantled. I don't think anyone would want that to go ahead.

Granted, some of Ukraine's best players play outside Ukraine, but would that be enough to field a strong enough 11 plus subs, to make it worth playing? I genuinely don't know the answer to this, but I'd imagine not.

Ukraine would appear to have far more players playing in top-tier foreign leagues than Scotland have ever had.

According to Wikipedia, recent Ukraine squads have included players from: ANDERLECHT, CLUB BRUGGE, SLAVIA PRAGUE, EVERTON, WEST HAM UNITED, MANCHESTER CITY, ATALANTA, LEGIA WARSAW, CRACOVIA, FERENCVAROS, BENFICA, REAL MADRID, ATHLETICO PARANAENSE.

These are all top flight clubs; some (like Anderlecht, Legia, Benfica, Ferencvaros) are the biggest clubs in their countries and some like Atalanta and Cracovia may not be famously 'big' clubs, but they are flying high in the Italian and Polish leagues this season.

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8 minutes ago, Dogbiscuit said:

Plenty of folk are getting on their high horse complaining that this is all inconsequential in relation to the war in Ukraine. Does everything have to be black and white, either / or? Is it not possible to recognise the magnitude of the situation in Ukraine while also still caring about football and having an opinion on how this situation is resolved? I mean, the folk at FIFA / UEFA / SFA will be wracking their brains about what to do. What's wrong with us doing that? Doesn't necessarily mean we're insensitive. There may be one or two who are, but I imagine most folk are horrified by what's happening over there. Lets not forget that this is a football forum, and the beauty of football is that, in the grand scheme of things, it's utterly meaningless and can be a good distraction from the horrors of life.

My view is that if Ukraine want to go ahead with the fixture then great. And if they would like a postponement then we should respect that as it's a hellish situation at present. But of course there will have to be a cut off.

Agree with all of this. Postponement is the only realistic option now, but if Ukraine can't play when the rescheduled date comes around then unfortunately that needs to be it.

Indefinite postponement is not an option, assuming the world cup goes ahead as planned in November. 

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4 hours ago, Bristolhibby said:

The game will have to be played or it won’t be played. Don’t see why we have to delay that decision.

The impact to the football calendar will affect 6 FAs.

Us, Ukrainians, Welsh, Austrians, Irish and Armenians. 
 

If the game can’t be played now I’ll bet your house it don’t be played in June. Males over 18 can’t leave the country, it will be the same in June.

There are enough Ukrainians outside the Ukraine to put a team together, if they can’t then 3-0 Scotland.

J

You don't know the future. Let the Ukrainians have some more time to see how this situation unfolds. It could be over quickly or it could be ongoing for years. The least we can do is give them a few extra months to cope with all the mayhem. 

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4 hours ago, borojock said:

Agree with this totally, the lack of empathy from some is eye opening 

The way people are putting a game of football ahead of the war crimes that have been going on is astounding

10 hours ago, jailender said:

Seriously, with what's going on just now, does anyone really care about a game of football when people are dying!

 

It's not a lack of empathy and nobody is saying a game of football is more important than the dreadful situation unfolding in Ukraine. 

I know football is NOT important, but we like watching it and talking about it (despite - as someone else posted - there being dreadful things happening in the world every single day; in Yemen; in Afghanistan; in Africa; in China; in South America and even in Scotland. Every single day.

We are just discussing something, which - by the way - the UAF, SFA, FIFA and UEFA are all discussing.

If the FA's and federations are discussing the situation, so too can the fans.

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5 hours ago, Dodger said:

... but Jimmy from Elgin has spent £34 on a non-refundable train ticket so stick your postponement request" 

Many fans have already paid out many, many, many hundreds of pounds for travel and hotels for the matches throughout the year; especially in June.

Five nights in a Glasgow hotel because we have 2 home matches; expensive.

Hotels in Dublin; extortionate (!)

Flights to Armenia: expensive. 

It's not about the Ukraine play-off being cancelled per se. It's about that play-off being moved and affecting other matches.

What if they move the Dublin and Yerevan matches to accommodate the play-off final?

Many fans have already committed to these trips.

 

Ukraine appear to have a good chunk of foreign based players (playing in top-tier leagues) who they can select from.

As I said yesterday, FIFA/UEFA need to be clear eyed. See things as they are; not as they would like things to be. 

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, scottincarlisle said:

There are people on the board moaning that if the match is rearranged for June they'll be out of pocket for travel they have booked for NL games.

Not moaning. Just discussing.

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21 minutes ago, saintsparky said:

If the Scotland game is postponed, why cant the Wales v Austria go ahead. I don't understand why it should also be delayed...

At least we would know who we would be playing if we win, and would make logistics for the final a bit easier..

I guess it gives an arguably slight advantage to either Scotland or Ukraine, as they will know who they will play well before Wales/Austria will know who they are playing.

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24 minutes ago, saintsparky said:

If the Scotland game is postponed, why cant the Wales v Austria go ahead. I don't understand why it should also be delayed...

At least we would know who we would be playing if we win, and would make logistics for the final a bit easier..

If our game is held back, they should play theirs as its one less fixture to find room for. It does give the winner an advantage over the winner over ours but I understand why that would be. 

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