Goodwillie Transfer to Raith

[mccaughey85]

2 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

I think that he should be allowed to earn a living but as a footballer he has a high public profile. His very presence will alienate so many people, not just women but all of us who value our mothers, wives, sisters, daughter's etc.  

He needs to look for another way of earning a living as no club in Scotland will touch him with a barge pole. 

Yes he does need to fit back into society but given the lack of remorse he should not have been so naive (or arrogant?) to think he could just breeze back into his old profession as if nothing had happened.

Why would he show remorse when he insists he is innocent and technically he is?

The situation is strange one in that he's not been convicted but has been made to pay damages in civil court. I might be wrong but there can't be many situations like this. 

Do you think that a person should not be allowed to continue his/her profession based on public opinion or a civil court? If thats the case we might as well get rid of criminal courts and just let the public or civil courts decide guilt. 

[Scotty CTA]

28 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Why would he show remorse when he insists he is innocent and technically he is?

The situation is strange one in that he's not been convicted but has been made to pay damages in civil court. I might be wrong but there can't be many situations like this. 

Do you think that a person should not be allowed to continue his/her profession based on public opinion or a civil court? If thats the case we might as well get rid of criminal courts and just let the public or civil courts decide guilt. 

OJ

[Scotty CTA]

2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

It’s not an easy answer is it?

No, and we have two 'victims'.

 

[ParisInAKilt]

2 hours ago, Scotty CTA said:

No, and we have two 'victims'.

 

In the case of Goodwillie, only as a result of his own actions and his testimony in the civil case was cowardly and snake like. 

[phart]

It's about competing rights.

Society has nothing to do with it in that sense. It's the Raith community that has some folk not willing to be in a community with him. Then the community has to collectively decide what to do. Do they allow someone into their community that then has several people decide to leave. Or do they not allow them into their community.

Sturgeon commenting does muddy the waters in the sense she is a representative of government.

If "society" allows tens of thousands of children to live in abject poverty then it can disallow a potential rapist to play football. Obviously folk can prioritise what failings of society they decide to speak up on. Pick the victims of society they want to champion.

Edited February 4, 2022 by phart

[wee-toon-red]

8 hours ago, Scotty CTA said:

No, and we have two 'victims'.

 

Absolutely no way are there two victims. No way.

[Scotty CTA]

3 hours ago, wee-toon-red said:

Absolutely no way are there two victims. No way.

I didn't say two victims.

I said two 'victims'.

DG is a victim of society playing judge, jury, and executioner with no end in sight (and I get that many are fine with that).

Many don't want him to be able to 'pay his debt' and that his life should forever be a 'hell'.

 

 

[Hertsscot]

12 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Why would he show remorse when he insists he is innocent and technically he is?

The situation is strange one in that he's not been convicted but has been made to pay damages in civil court. I might be wrong but there can't be many situations like this. 

Do you think that a person should not be allowed to continue his/her profession based on public opinion or a civil court? If thats the case we might as well get rid of criminal courts and just let the public or civil courts decide guilt. 

On DG innocence, no human system of justice is infallible but looking at the court transcripts I suspect most juries would have convicted him.

In 2017 the judge didn't use the 'g' word but nonetheless stated, 'I find that...they each raped her' which seems pretty clear cut.

On DG's return to his former career, it is probably the case that there are some professions where that's just not possible, even without a criminal conviction because they've broken a code of professional conduct or because of their public profile (e.g. if DG were a well known TV presenter rather than  a footballer I think there would have been a similar public outcry).

With regard to DG not being contrite or admitting guilt I have seen some comments that suggested there might be legal reasons for so doing. Any legal experts able to clear that one up?

[phart]

I feel the argument is being framed incorrectly

Whatever the case, there are a sizeable group of people that don't want to be at the same club he is at, which is their right.

The club then has to decide whether they want DG or they want the other group.

Unless we're saying DG right to play football means that the other people should be forced to associate with him against their wishes. Which of course is a ridiculous position to take. So we're left with competing interests, the club then has to pick which interest they acede to.

The moral relativism of other clubs is irrelevant apart from demonstrating it isn't an absolute that he is banned from making a living. Merely that in one place enough people decided they didn't want to associate and the club picked one side.

[aaid]

1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

 

With regard to DG not being contrite or admitting guilt I have seen some comments that suggested there might be legal reasons for so doing. Any legal experts able to clear that one up?

He could still be charged and an admission of guilt or even contrition could be taken as a form of confession I guess.

I’m sure though that a clever lawyer could come up with a form of words that expressed sufficient remorse but didn’t incriminate him.  Sort of a politician’s “I’m sorry if anyone was offended” response  

However, IMHO, actions and inactions come with consequences and if that’s the reason why he’s keeping quiet then he can’t expect people to look at him favourably. 

Edited February 4, 2022 by aaid

[dan cake]

Back at Clyde

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60576423

 

[Och Aye]

[Tartan_Tonna]

I've read the court transcript of Goodwillie's trial. The judge found on the balance of probability that he was guilty. 

Goodwillie lost the Civil trial, declared himself bankrupt and because of that, the girl hasn't received any compensation for the trauma she says he inflicted.  

I think it's important to have a relevant, and serious discussion around the state of The Scottish Sexual Offenses at Scotland Act. 

The procurator fiscal and the jury, looked at the evidence and made the determination that they could not prove beyond any reasonable doubt that this alleged rape had taken place, by David Goodwillie and his team mate. 

Both players deny it to this day.

Goodwillie denies it to this day, saying it was consensual sex. 

In the case of David Goodwillie and teammate, that Nicola Sturgeon raises. The standard of proof in a criminal action is beyond all reasonable doubt. The procurator fiscal didn't think there was enough evidence.

In the civil trial, its on the balance of probability. 

I've read the transcript from the civil trial. I think it could go either way had it gone to a Jury. It's not for me to give a verdict. 

But i would say that from a justice perspective. Sometimes, men in authority are preyed upon. Let's not pretend it doesn't happen. Like footballers for example. Some women pray upon men - gold diggers as they are labelled. 

Because Goodwillie made himself bankrupt and hasn't paid her any compensation, I think that is why he's experiencing comments that he has shown no remorse. 

That's not a bandwagon I'm prepared to jump on. I am sure Goodwillie has been punished every single day of his life for what he did, and is probably as respectful as the next man, towards any woman who has him! I hope! 

I think its harsh from Nicola Sturgeon to appear to be orchestrating a witch hunt against him, now he's returned to Clyde. Once again today raising his profile. 

The guy doesn't pose a risk to anyone. He's a male footballer, returning to play in a male team, going into a male dressing room. 

I think Sturgeon has a lot of questions to answer on the state of the Sexual Offenses in Scotland Act.

I'm surprised she doesn't have anything to say about the safeguarding concerns of gender self identifying biological males, who commit crimes. Self Identifying as female. 

I don't think that biological males who commit sexual crimes should be housed in female prisons in Scotland. 

I don't think that female victims in court should be galighted - to use a new term - in court, for not validating their attackers gender identity. 

Gaslighting: "A form of intimidation, sometimes called ambient abuse where false information is presented to the victim, making them doubt their own memory, perception and quite often, their sanity." 

What state is the sexual offenses in Scotland Act in, if a man can be housed in a female jail?

I think it's important to recognise that men and women commit different crimes. I don't believe that women commit rape. They don't have a penis. It tends to be a psychological power trip as well. Biologically women are not as strong as men. 

A lot of women in female prisons have a history of sexual abuse. Of male violence towards them. I would argue that it would be retraumatising to some, were they to be locked in a cell for months if not years with a bilogically male sex, offender.  

I think Nicola Sturgeon's comments on this as head of government are alarming. I suspect she's jumping on a bandwagon as her pal is Val McDermid chairman of Raith Rovers. I would also say that her public condemnation of Goodwillie is sending a message to all male sex offenders in female jails. Not to put on a football strip. As Nicola Sturgeon might start talking about you!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Tartan_Tonna

[phart]

Wait it went to a jury trial? I thought he never faced a criminal trial

[Tartan_Tonna]

32 minutes ago, phart said:

Wait it went to a jury trial? I thought he never faced a criminal trial

 

No there wasn't enough evidence. It never went to trial. 

Don't ask me why I've read the transcript of the civil case... The stuff that pops up on twitter honestly! 

I think it's like a public prudge! The council are pulling out the sponsorship of the Clyde. It's ridiculous!

This all stems from Val McDermid, crime novelist, friend of Sturgeon and Chairman of Raith Rovers! 

How is he meant to show remorse? Of he must have! Every day of his life! 

He poses no threat to women. He's a male footballer, going into a male dressing room to play against men. 

I'm not speaking on behalf of him. But I suspect he's been taunted in every football match he's played over the last 5 years. And I suspect he's not the same man as he was. That he'll have matured from his inhibited drunken youth. He's now at the centre of a zero tolerance on that lad culture in football, if you can call it that. Its, very unfortunate for him. 

His mental health doesn't matter to the media, as it doesn't suit the agenda. 

 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Tartan_Tonna

[Fairbairn]

North Lanarkshire Council have now banned David Goodwillie from entering Broadwood (which they own and lease to Clyde) and have stated if they he does enter they will treat it as a breach of contract and terminate immediately.  Have also advised Clyde that the lease will not be extended beyond 2023 regardless.

[vanderark14]

22 minutes ago, Fairbairn said:

North Lanarkshire Council have now banned David Goodwillie from entering Broadwood (which they own and lease to Clyde) and have stated if they he does enter they will treat it as a breach of contract and terminate immediately.  Have also advised Clyde that the lease will not be extended beyond 2023 regardless.

The entire women's team has also quit

[kumnio]

Clyde now trying to cancel his loan. Not sure what Clyde thought they were doing when they signed him.

[Scotty CTA]

Why don't they just publicly hang, draw and quarter him, and get it over with?

[aaid]

11 hours ago, kumnio said:

Clyde now trying to cancel his loan. Not sure what Clyde thought they were doing when they signed him.

Originally or recently

[aaid]

I see the board's been infiltrated by one of the Alba ultra-zoomers.

[thplinth]

On 3/1/2022 at 11:39 PM, Tartan_Tonna said:

I've read the court transcript of Goodwillie's trial. The judge found on the balance of probability that he was guilty. 

 

No idea about Goowillie but I read it was Lady Dorrian, if that is correct I would not rate the civil case finding at all.

Calling him guilty but without a proper criminal trial is pretty dodgy in my book. He may well be a scum bag but this is kangaroo court stuff. No surprises really.

[aaid]

A link to the  judgement was posted by phart on the first page of this thread if anyone wants to read it, it’s not very pleasant though.

Lord Armstrong presided so that’s more fake news and disinformation from Thplinth in trying to tie Lady Dorrian into the case.  

I presume that’s bad Lady Dorrian who presided over the Craig Murray case and not good Lady Dorrian who presided over the Alex Salmond one. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by aaid

[thplinth]

To be fair to Lady Dorrian, what I read was that there were three judges sitting / involved and one was Dorrian. I could easily have got it wrong hence my uncertainty above. 

edit: It was the appeal.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-42152358

Edited March 4, 2022 by thplinth

[AlfieMoon]

On 3/1/2022 at 7:19 PM, Och Aye said:

I thought this sounded like made up bullshit when I read it. Turns out I was right.  
 

North Lanarkshire Leisure merged with Culture NL - and subsequently returned to full control of North Lanarkshire Council on 1st April 2021. 
 

David Goodwillie was still playing for Clyde as recently as 29th January 2022, over 9 months since NLC had control to make the decision.  
 

I just wish folk would be honest. NLC should admit that it’s not been on their radar but in light of new, increased public scrutiny they are compelled to act.
 

The ownership status of Broadwood being put up as an excuse is just made up nonsense from NLC. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by AlfieMoon