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Performance schools


Diamond Scot
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There was some chat on one of the other threads that the performance schools might be replaced or scrapped. This would be madness  imo as we are finally seeing players who are comfortable on the ball.

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1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

There was some chat on one of the other threads that the performance schools might be replaced or scrapped. This would be madness  imo as we are finally seeing players who are comfortable on the ball.

I'm a huge fan of the performance schools. Both Celtic and Dundee Utd implemented their own versions of the schools years before, and I don't think it's any coincidence that a large portion of Scottish professionals have come out of those 2 academies the last decade.

It's also not a coincidence that the 4 most highly rated youngsters to come out of Ibrox lately went to the Performance Schools. (Gilmour, Patterson, Lowry, King).

I'd love to know where a lot of the rest are right now. I wonder if Morrison or Hepburn went to the schools as well. Kerr Smith did, apparently. 

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4 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

I'm a huge fan of the performance schools. Both Celtic and Dundee Utd implemented their own versions of the schools years before, and I don't think it's any coincidence that a large portion of Scottish professionals have come out of those 2 academies the last decade.

It's also not a coincidence that the 4 most highly rated youngsters to come out of Ibrox lately went to the Performance Schools. (Gilmour, Patterson, Lowry, King).

I'd love to know where a lot of the rest are right now. I wonder if Morrison or Hepburn went to the schools as well. Kerr Smith did, apparently. 

Morrison went to the Celtic version (would have gone to Grange in Killie same as Gilmour)

 

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There was talk a while back that they wanted to merge a couple of the schools into one so they cover a much larger area, but only after a planned review to take place in the near future.

Given every time they release a squad there is a few "*graduate of performance school" next to quite a few names, there is certainly the benefits there to be seen.

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10 hours ago, wanderer said:

There was talk a while back that they wanted to merge a couple of the schools into one so they cover a much larger area, but only after a planned review to take place in the near future.

Given every time they release a squad there is a few "*graduate of performance school" next to quite a few names, there is certainly the benefits there to be seen.

The fact that 10 cap Gilmour and 6 cap Patterson are still eligible for the under 21s is remarkable. Ramsay and Doig have also both been touted for the senior squad. Just think how many PS* there will be in 7 or 8 years. 

I've noticed a big part of the training is mental preparation as well. That is evident in how unfazed they all seem despite how big the occasions are. Instead of learning through experience, they are getting it through education at a younger age, meaning they are mentally ready, as well as technically long before they otherwise would have been.

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It would be so typically Scottish for these schools to be scrapped just as they're starting to bear fruit. Whenever we find ourselves onto a good thing we always find a way to fuck it up. 🤦‍♂️

Why on earth would we want to get rid of the performance schools at this point in time?? I assume it's for financial reasons.

Edited by scotlad
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No surprise that the performance schools are creating more players.

Quite simply the boys are playing football every day.

  Society has changed now and boys don't play football every day up the park. Most train with their boys club 1 or 2 hours a week and that's it.

I would love it if every secondary school in Scotland had a similar set up with the school team the pinnacle.

There are some great boys clubs around but also some really poor and I would say majority of boys teams are influenced by parents. If the schools were more involved then not only would the boys be playing more there would be less interference. 

Get them playing every day 5 a sides 7 a sides coaching etc all with qualified coaches and our playing pool would also increase drastically. 

Nothing else unites our country or feel good factor like Scotland at a big tournament. 

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Last time this was touted I remember the Alloa chairman, who was a board member of the SFA, talking about how teams wanted to bring youth development back 'in-house'. Basically the lower league teams fancied their 1/42 share of the performance schools budget so they could no doubt spunk it up the wall on glorified junior players and then have a few youth teams training twice a week to justify their payments. 

Be utter madness to scrap them now that they are finally producing the goods. The likelihood is there's better players than Billy Gilmour still to come as the schools, facilities and coaching get better over time.

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2 hours ago, ghorne67 said:

Last time this was touted I remember the Alloa chairman, who was a board member of the SFA, talking about how teams wanted to bring youth development back 'in-house'. Basically the lower league teams fancied their 1/42 share of the performance schools budget so they could no doubt spunk it up the wall on glorified junior players and then have a few youth teams training twice a week to justify their payments. 

Be utter madness to scrap them now that they are finally producing the goods. The likelihood is there's better players than Billy Gilmour still to come as the schools, facilities and coaching get better over time.

If we get a few more successful players from the performance schools we should be looking at increasing them not scrapping them. 

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On 1/23/2022 at 9:05 PM, Squirrelhumper said:

Morrison went to the Celtic version (would have gone to Grange in Killie same as Gilmour)

 

I'm sure Morrison went to the performance schools. He was at Rangers before he joined Celtic and I think he stayed at the PS and was the only Celtic player not to go to their school.

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18 hours ago, ghorne67 said:

Last time this was touted I remember the Alloa chairman, who was a board member of the SFA, talking about how teams wanted to bring youth development back 'in-house'. Basically the lower league teams fancied their 1/42 share of the performance schools budget so they could no doubt spunk it up the wall on glorified junior players and then have a few youth teams training twice a week to justify their payments. 

Be utter madness to scrap them now that they are finally producing the goods. The likelihood is there's better players than Billy Gilmour still to come as the schools, facilities and coaching get better over time.

Madness part time clubs at the very bottom level have the same voting power as those at the top. 

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19 hours ago, ghorne67 said:

Last time this was touted I remember the Alloa chairman, who was a board member of the SFA, talking about how teams wanted to bring youth development back 'in-house'. Basically the lower league teams fancied their 1/42 share of the performance schools budget so they could no doubt spunk it up the wall on glorified junior players and then have a few youth teams training twice a week to justify their payments. 

Be utter madness to scrap them now that they are finally producing the goods. The likelihood is there's better players than Billy Gilmour still to come as the schools, facilities and coaching get better over time.

He's a prat. 

Mind seeing him at a family members graduation , his daughter was in same year. 

Looked like the president of your local bowling club. He's only interested in self interest/gravy train. 

An nonendity like that should be nowhere near the SFA board. 

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10 hours ago, Blantyre_Braveheart said:

I'm sure Morrison went to the performance schools. He was at Rangers before he joined Celtic and I think he stayed at the PS and was the only Celtic player not to go to their school.

I could be wrong, i thought he went to the Celtic one. 

TBF it's a fair trek from Saltcoats to North Glasgow each day for school.  

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On 2/1/2022 at 10:54 PM, Blantyre_Braveheart said:

I'm sure Morrison went to the performance schools. He was at Rangers before he joined Celtic and I think he stayed at the PS and was the only Celtic player not to go to their school.

You are correct, he went to Grange Academy in Kilmarnock:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18004351.former-celtic-kid-liam-morrison-loving-life-miroslav-klose-bayern-munich/

And Morrison credits his time at the SFA Performance School at Grange Academy as being instrumental in his rapid progress.

He said: "The Performance School has been massive in my development. I had a great coach in James Grady, who gave me the tips I needed. Just playing football every day gave me a massive boost."

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Another PS player debut last night at Dundee United in Rory MacLeod, just 16. The list to come out of the system is really starting to grow now. The 2000s were the first group, and we are now starting to see the 2002s and 2003s break through in decent numbers, so years 3 and 4 of the system. The fact that some of the 2004s (currently 17/18), 2005s (16/17) and even 2006s (15/16) are starting to be in and around first team squads is really promising.

The 2000s were the first to start to break through, that group included Zak Rudden (Partick Thistle), Lewis Mayo (Rangers), Logan Chalmers (Dundee United), Stephen Kelly (Rangers) and Jack MacKenzie (Aberdeen).

In the 2001 group you have Dean Campbell (Aberdeen), Billy Gilmour (Chelsea), Dapo Mebude (Watford), Josh McPake (Rangers), Scott Banks (Crystal Palace) and Nathan Patterson (Everton).

In 2002 the standouts so far are probably Jay Henderson (St Mirren), Kai Kennedy (Rangers), Archie Meekison (Dundee United), Adam Montgomery (Celtic) and Stuart McKinstry (Leeds).

Some of the 2003s have already broken through or are well known including Liam Morrison (Bayern Munich), Chris Mochrie (Dundee United), Lewis Neilson (Dundee United), Calvin Ramsay (Aberdeen), Liam Smith (Manchester City), Alex Lowry (Rangers) and Max Johnston (Motherwell). 

From the 2004s, the only 1 I know of that is high profile is Kerr Smith (Aston Villa).

From the 2005s you have Craig Moore (Dundee United) and Dylan Reid (St Mirren).

From the 2006s you have Rory Macleod (Dundee United) and Rory Wilson (Rangers) who is yet to debut but there seems to be some buzz around.

The group there forms a large part of the whos who of Scottish youth football. 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Scots_Wha_Hae said:

Another PS player debut last night at Dundee United in Rory MacLeod, just 16. The list to come out of the system is really starting to grow now. The 2000s were the first group, and we are now starting to see the 2002s and 2003s break through in decent numbers, so years 3 and 4 of the system. The fact that some of the 2004s (currently 17/18), 2005s (16/17) and even 2006s (15/16) are starting to be in and around first team squads is really promising.

The 2000s were the first to start to break through, that group included Zak Rudden (Partick Thistle), Lewis Mayo (Rangers), Logan Chalmers (Dundee United), Stephen Kelly (Rangers) and Jack MacKenzie (Aberdeen).

In the 2001 group you have Dean Campbell (Aberdeen), Billy Gilmour (Chelsea), Dapo Mebude (Watford), Josh McPake (Rangers), Scott Banks (Crystal Palace) and Nathan Patterson (Everton).

In 2002 the standouts so far are probably Jay Henderson (St Mirren), Kai Kennedy (Rangers), Archie Meekison (Dundee United), Adam Montgomery (Celtic) and Stuart McKinstry (Leeds).

Some of the 2003s have already broken through or are well known including Liam Morrison (Bayern Munich), Chris Mochrie (Dundee United), Lewis Neilson (Dundee United), Calvin Ramsay (Aberdeen), Liam Smith (Manchester City), Alex Lowry (Rangers) and Max Johnston (Motherwell). 

From the 2004s, the only 1 I know of that is high profile is Kerr Smith (Aston Villa).

From the 2005s you have Craig Moore (Dundee United) and Dylan Reid (St Mirren).

From the 2006s you have Rory Macleod (Dundee United) and Rory Wilson (Rangers) who is yet to debut but there seems to be some buzz around.

The group there forms a large part of the whos who of Scottish youth football. 

 

 

I thought Billy Gilmour was in the first PS class. But you clearly have more knowledge than I do. Any more updates on the Performance Schools is very much appreciated.

The success really isn't up for debate anymore (I hope). Considering even the oldest graduates are still only 21, there are probably more to come out of those years. Despite the fact you'd assume there would have been teething issues and trial and error. Now it'll be more streamlined.

I reckon it'll eventually get to the stage where the majority (over 50%) of the national team squad will be made up of these graduates. 

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My understanding, and I'm not sure I have any more knowledge than anyone else, is that Gilmour was in the first year to complete the full programme. Earlier years had players who were in the system for fewer than 6 years, because they had already started high school when the programme started. So, you are broadly right, Gilmour was in the first 'real' batch of PS players.

Happy to be corrected though.

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The encouraging things for me are PS school players are either getting 1st team football at a very young age or the standard of teams they are signed to seems to be improving.

Its been a long time since we had young players dotted around europe and in most academies in England.

The other positive for me is just a perception thing and that is that the PS school players appear to have much better tactical awareness (maybe why they get into the 1st team sooner) and also appear to be able to use both feet much more than previous generations non PS players.

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4 hours ago, Scots_Wha_Hae said:

Another PS player debut last night at Dundee United in Rory MacLeod, just 16. The list to come out of the system is really starting to grow now. The 2000s were the first group, and we are now starting to see the 2002s and 2003s break through in decent numbers, so years 3 and 4 of the system. The fact that some of the 2004s (currently 17/18), 2005s (16/17) and even 2006s (15/16) are starting to be in and around first team squads is really promising.

The 2000s were the first to start to break through, that group included Zak Rudden (Partick Thistle), Lewis Mayo (Rangers), Logan Chalmers (Dundee United), Stephen Kelly (Rangers) and Jack MacKenzie (Aberdeen).

In the 2001 group you have Dean Campbell (Aberdeen), Billy Gilmour (Chelsea), Dapo Mebude (Watford), Josh McPake (Rangers), Scott Banks (Crystal Palace) and Nathan Patterson (Everton).

In 2002 the standouts so far are probably Jay Henderson (St Mirren), Kai Kennedy (Rangers), Archie Meekison (Dundee United), Adam Montgomery (Celtic) and Stuart McKinstry (Leeds).

Some of the 2003s have already broken through or are well known including Liam Morrison (Bayern Munich), Chris Mochrie (Dundee United), Lewis Neilson (Dundee United), Calvin Ramsay (Aberdeen), Liam Smith (Manchester City), Alex Lowry (Rangers) and Max Johnston (Motherwell). 

From the 2004s, the only 1 I know of that is high profile is Kerr Smith (Aston Villa).

From the 2005s you have Craig Moore (Dundee United) and Dylan Reid (St Mirren).

From the 2006s you have Rory Macleod (Dundee United) and Rory Wilson (Rangers) who is yet to debut but there seems to be some buzz around.

The group there forms a large part of the whos who of Scottish youth football. 

 

 

Brilliant post, thanks for the info. If only the SFA could be bothered to update their website and promote the good things taking place

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15 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

The encouraging things for me are PS school players are either getting 1st team football at a very young age or the standard of teams they are signed to seems to be improving.

Its been a long time since we had young players dotted around europe and in most academies in England.

The other positive for me is just a perception thing and that is that the PS school players appear to have much better tactical awareness (maybe why they get into the 1st team sooner) and also appear to be able to use both feet much more than previous generations non PS players.

One thing i would also hope these PS created were young players who are professional, with the right mindset, attitude and habits. I dont know these players so wouldnt be able to say its producing this but in a more structured and perhaps regimented environment it creates players who live the rigtht way to give them the best chance to be successful in the long run 

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18 hours ago, Scots_Wha_Hae said:

Another PS player debut last night at Dundee United in Rory MacLeod, just 16. The list to come out of the system is really starting to grow now. The 2000s were the first group, and we are now starting to see the 2002s and 2003s break through in decent numbers, so years 3 and 4 of the system. The fact that some of the 2004s (currently 17/18), 2005s (16/17) and even 2006s (15/16) are starting to be in and around first team squads is really promising.

The 2000s were the first to start to break through, that group included Zak Rudden (Partick Thistle), Lewis Mayo (Rangers), Logan Chalmers (Dundee United), Stephen Kelly (Rangers) and Jack MacKenzie (Aberdeen).

In the 2001 group you have Dean Campbell (Aberdeen), Billy Gilmour (Chelsea), Dapo Mebude (Watford), Josh McPake (Rangers), Scott Banks (Crystal Palace) and Nathan Patterson (Everton).

In 2002 the standouts so far are probably Jay Henderson (St Mirren), Kai Kennedy (Rangers), Archie Meekison (Dundee United), Adam Montgomery (Celtic) and Stuart McKinstry (Leeds).

Some of the 2003s have already broken through or are well known including Liam Morrison (Bayern Munich), Chris Mochrie (Dundee United), Lewis Neilson (Dundee United), Calvin Ramsay (Aberdeen), Liam Smith (Manchester City), Alex Lowry (Rangers) and Max Johnston (Motherwell). 

From the 2004s, the only 1 I know of that is high profile is Kerr Smith (Aston Villa).

From the 2005s you have Craig Moore (Dundee United) and Dylan Reid (St Mirren).

From the 2006s you have Rory Macleod (Dundee United) and Rory Wilson (Rangers) who is yet to debut but there seems to be some buzz around.

The group there forms a large part of the whos who of Scottish youth football. 

 

 

Great post 👍🏾

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5 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

How much performance schools are there? I am guessing all the major cities have?  Has the inverness area have one? 

7 according to SFA website but not sure how accurate it is. It still refers to St Johns in Dundee (which was used by both Dundee clubs). United have more recently set up their own school at Baldragon High in Dundee and also have one at Wallace High I think in Stirling. 
 

there is not one in In Inverness

  • Hazlehead Academy – Aberdeen.
  • St John's RC High School – Dundee.
  • Broughton High School – Edinburgh.
  • Graeme High School – Falkirk.
  • Holyrood Secondary School – Glasgow.
  • Grange Academy – Kilmarnock.
  • Braidhurst High School – Motherwell.

Hazlehead Academy, AberdeenDUNDEE

St John's RC High School, DundeeEDINBURGH

Broughton High School, EdinburghFALKIRK

Graeme High School, FalkirkGLASGOW

Holyrood Secondary, GlasgowKILMARNOCK

Braidhurst High School, Motherwell

Edited by GHfaeGTA
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