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Your Man in Saughton Jail


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On 1/6/2022 at 5:04 PM, Alibi said:

It's not whataboutery at all.  It's some folk getting away with jigsaw identification and others being arrested and charged.  He was the only person to report on the defence case - the mainstream media completely ignored the defence part of the trial, which doesn't sound like even-handed reporting to me.  I use the phrase "proven liars" because when someone says they are somewhere on a certain date and several witnesses say they weren't, someone is lying.

I'm open minded on the "conspiracy" theory, but the whole business does look very like someone creating a disciplinary procedure specifically to get a particular person.  Let's see if the procedure is ever used again.

I think the FM's days are numbered because she refuses to push the indy cause when she should be giving it more prominence.  That started before Covid.  I also have deep suspicions about the British state's involvement within the SNP.  If they don't have plants within the party, they've not been doing their job.

I dont particuarly want to get involved on the conspiracy topic but just some info on your point about perjury and proven liars.

Perjury has a really really high bar. Its very rare that somebody is prosecuted for it. 

If somebody says they were somewhere and it turns out they werent then they are not a proven liar. They could also be mistaken. Getting over that hurdle is really hard.

 

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3 hours ago, Dave78 said:

From what i've seen on Twatter, this seems to be the offending passage. Specifically the date of the meeting, as apparently it was publicised.

 

 

 

Screenshot_2022-01-05-15-01-20-270_com.payzone.parkingtag.jpg

AFAIK, a number of news outlets reported that at the time of the trail and in and of itself that means nothing but they all obviously have extensive legal teams so it’s a stretch to think that they’d all get it wrong.  

It was Geoff Aberdein who put the details into the public domain in January 2019 about a series of meetings he’d had in March 2018 in an interview with the Daily Record and of course these all formed a large part of the latter stages of the inquiry.  This was just after Salmond had won the judicial review, and NS had told Parliament that the first she’d knew about the allegations were on April 2nd.   It was also just before Salmond had been charged.

Of course a meeting between him and Nicola Sturgeon on the 29th wasn’t mentioned at this point, let alone who may or may not have been present at it.  That’s why it was such a bombshell at the trial when he mentioned the 29th because it appeared NS had misled Parliament.  

I think there’s maybe a bit of people putting two and two together and maybe getting five here. 
 

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24 minutes ago, aaid said:



I think there’s maybe a bit of people putting two and two together and maybe getting five here. 
 

Aye. Sturgeon's diaries published under FOI for that date have been redacted, so i can't see how the article identifies the complainant.

Maybe the meeting (and attendees) was publicised before the stooshie began? If so, i can't find anything, despite my furious googling.

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6 hours ago, Dave78 said:

Aye. Sturgeon's diaries published under FOI for that date have been redacted, so i can't see how the article identifies the complainant.

Maybe the meeting (and attendees) was publicised before the stooshie began? If so, i can't find anything, despite my furious googling.

And there was also the furore over whether Geoff Aberdein’s testimony to the inquiry could be published, it wasn’t in the end, presumably for this very reason. 

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On 1/7/2022 at 8:33 AM, Alibi said:

Deflection writ large there.  On the specific question of whether or not that person - I think known as Woman H, so for inclusiveness I should probably say no certainty whether it's a woman or a woman with male bits obviously -  more than one witness testified that at a dinner of about a dozen people at most, the individual mentioned was not there.  I would say that's pretty damning.  You might not notice at the time that somebody wasn't there, but pretty certain if you were asked if they WERE there, you'd know that they hadn't been.  I think you're trying too hard to push the party line.  Given that the FM has pretty much said that she thinks the jury's verdict was wrong, maybe no surprise.

She on the snp books, what would you expect, 

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On 1/7/2022 at 8:55 AM, aaid said:

So you’re wrong there again.  The dinner in question only consisted of three or four people.  Salmond, Ken Stott - who couldn’t give evidence because of COVID but said he couldn’t remember much about it, the woman , whose name I can’t remember but gave evidence for the defence and says there was only the three of them and possibly Woman H.  When I said the devil is in the detail, IIRC, the alleged incident took place after the dinner and if I could be arsed to go back and check I think there was some suggestion she came in later.

I see you can’t or won’t answer the question about Dani Garavelli either.

Which blogger is it that you’re swallowing their line, DYOR FFS.

 

Come on aaid, we all know woman H was a bare face lier and should face the consequences of trying to put innocent man in jail. 

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18 hours ago, exile said:

Thanks. I just thought it interesting, for an inside view (from any journalist in that position, whoever it was).

The relation to deprivation is so stark you'd think there must be a way to target addressing it.

Definitely.

Regardless of the reasons why he’s in prison, you can’t help but feel something reading about his experience and the people he comes across. 

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15 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Definitely.

Regardless of the reasons why he’s in prison, you can’t help but feel something reading about his experience and the people he comes across. 

👍

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On 1/5/2022 at 8:22 PM, exile said:

Your Man in Saughton Jail Part 1

Craig Murray's account of his time in Saughton (part 1).

Just got round to reading this, thanks.
I am not really sure what he was expecting prison to be like , and he hasn’t really said anything new. Most folk know that prison tends to be full of repeat offenders, many of whom have drink or drug problems, that drugs are rife and we have social inequality. Its not good, but this situation is not just specific to Scotland, sounds like he is just using the blog to have a pop at the SG. 

I dont blame him for being pissed off right enough, his crime was hardly that of a dangerous offender. Why was he not placed in an open prison, was it shortage of places available ? Or is he suggesting something more sinister ? I have not really been keeping up with this saga.

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13 hours ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Come on aaid, we all know woman H was a bare face lier and should face the consequences of trying to put innocent man in jail. 

No we don’t.

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On 1/6/2022 at 3:19 PM, Alibi said:

How come the likes of Dani Garavelli weren't prosecuted for their jigsaw identification of some of the folk involved?  There's just one example.  The folk who ended up in trouble were all from the Yes side of the argument.  When you use words like "StuAnon" it's clear you're drinking from the Pete Wishart cool aid.  The mainstream media coverage of the Salmond trial was an utter disgrace, slanted and corrupt. That includes BBC Scotland and that evil cow Kirsty Wark with her ridiculously one sided hatchet job after the verdict.

My point is not actually about the Salmond case; it's that an old man was put in jail for something that should at worst have got him a nominal punishment.  It comes across as just plain malicious and out of all proportion to the alleged crime.  meanwhile the proven liars amongst the witnesses continue to be given the opportunity to continue to snipe at Salmond.

It revealed a really nasty streak in Nicola Sturgeon. 

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15 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

I didn’t read it like he was massively surprised about the conditions or who else is there and why. Just a statement of fact rather than a stick to beat the current government with. 

He most definitely is having a pop at the government. Not saying he is wrong but he is having a pop. 

‘’You cannot separate the catastrophic failure of the Scottish penal system – Scotland has the highest jail population per capita in all of Western Europe – from the catastrophic failure of drugs policy in Scotland. ‘’
 

‘’The toilet had no seat. This was not an accident – I was not permitted a toilet seat, even if I provided it myself. It was a normal UK style toilet, designed to be used with a seat, with the two holes for the seat fixing, and a narrow porcelain rim.’’

‘’A narrow bed ran down one wall. I came to realise that prison in Scotland still includes an element of corporal punishment, in that the prisoner is very deliberately made physically uncomfortable. Not having a toilet seat is part of this, and so is the bed. ‘’

‘’It is emblematic of the extraordinary lack of intellectual consistency in the Scottish prisons system that cells are equipped with these Victorian punishment beds ‘’

‘’But I recommend a spell in Saughton jail to any other middle class person who, like myself, was foolish enough to believe that Scotland is a socially progressive country.’’

‘’The overcrowding of our prisons is a symptom not just of failed justice and penal policy, but of fundamentally flawed economic, social and educational systems.’’


I didn't read anything in his blog about prison that surprised me in the least, prisons are somewhere you are not supposed to want to return to. Though as I said before, his incarceration in this particular prison does not seem to fit the crime.

The saddest thing in all of this  is that many people dont seem to mind going back,  which for me is a far bigger problem than the state of prisons. How bad does your life outside need to be to want to return to a 12x8 cell and live in those conditions ?  

This is not a problem specific to Scotland, but there is no doubt whatsoever that the spiralling drug’s problem here is making the situation much worse. You could make prisons more comfortable and rehabilitate prisoners inside,  but if nothing has changed on the outside they are going to be back to square one when they come out. The drugs problem IS the responsibility of the SG and they are failing miserably on this. Murray is correct in that regard. 

 

 

Edited by TDYER63
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59 minutes ago, hampden_loon2878 said:

Well everyone but you 

Maybe people who aren't capable of independent thought and critical reasoning, doing their own research and just blindly believe whatever line they've been spun by people who suit their own prejudices and biases.

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Are we now saying that in Scotland Politicians instruct the PF and judges on rulings and sentencing and that anyone who thinks that is bullshit is called a StuAnon ?

Edited by Ally Bongo
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11 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Are we now saying that in Scotland Politicians instruct the PF and judges on rulings and sentencing and that anyone who thinks that is bullshit is called a StuAnon ?

Other way round I think? Mibbe????🤔

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50 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

Are we now saying that in Scotland Politicians instruct the PF and judges on rulings and sentencing and that anyone who thinks that is bullshit is called a StuAnon ?

You mean you didn't realise that the Scottish Government, both civil service and politicians, SNP Party machine, Police Scotland, COPFS, the Justiciary aided and abetted by the MSM were all involved in a conspiracy to stop Alex Salmond making a comeback to Holyrood.

That's StuAnon.

Edited by aaid
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1 hour ago, TDYER63 said:

The drugs problem IS the responsibility of the SG and they are failing miserably on this. Murray is correct in that regard

Is drug legislation not the responsibility of the UK gov?

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2 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Is drug legislation not the responsibility of the UK gov?

Legislation of drugs is reserved to the UK Gov.  However policy in areas around preventing people from becoming addicted in the first place and then trying to rehabilitate addicts are full square in the remit of the Scottish Government.  These are the areas that need a lot more work but you’re not talking about something that happened overnight nor can be addressed overnight. 

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There must be umpteen Tories/Unionists within the Scottish Judiciary

Sturgeon and/or Scottish Government influencing trials

What a leak to the media that would be

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41 minutes ago, Ally Bongo said:

There must be umpteen Tories/Unionists within the Scottish Judiciary

Sturgeon and/or Scottish Government influencing trials

What a leak to the media that would be

Ah but, Nicola Sturgeon is an MI5 plant who doesn’t really want independence and the media are all in on it as well, so it’ll never come out. 

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3 hours ago, aaid said:

Legislation of drugs is reserved to the UK Gov.  However policy in areas around preventing people from becoming addicted in the first place and then trying to rehabilitate addicts are full square in the remit of the Scottish Government.  These are the areas that need a lot more work but you’re not talking about something that happened overnight nor can be addressed.

Drug addiction is a very complex matter but its hard to address without having the power to fully engage with users. Safe rooms for example are clearly a good idea, they allow users a safe place and safe needles etc to use where medical staff are close by but more importantly they get the users engaged which allows the proper people to do there jobs. 

The problem with current legislation is that these places are illegal. So you end up fighting a losing battle.

That being said there are alot of areas the SG could do better on that they arent.

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7 hours ago, Ally Bongo said:

There must be umpteen Tories/Unionists within the Scottish Judiciary

Sturgeon and/or Scottish Government influencing trials

What a leak to the media that would be

The Judiciary both North and South of the border is firmly part of the "establishment" - party politics really don't come into it at that level - same as in the media - the "4th estate". I leave it as an exercise to the reader as to whether this is a good or bad thing.

I'd suspect Craig Murray is as likley to be "Pour Encourager les Autres" - he was once the Ambassador to Uzbekistan and firmly part of the "establishment".

Remember no matter who you vote for the Government always wins

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55 minutes ago, Lobey said:

The Judiciary both North and South of the border is firmly part of the "establishment" - party politics really don't come into it at that level - same as in the media - the "4th estate". I leave it as an exercise to the reader as to whether this is a good or bad thing.

I'd suspect Craig Murray is as likley to be "Pour Encourager les Autres" - he was once the Ambassador to Uzbekistan and firmly part of the "establishment".

Remember no matter who you vote for the Government always wins

When it comes to Scottish Independence there is absolutely nothing off the table to thwart it at all costs

Something like this would bring down the Scottish Government

That's the difference between the actual London Establishment and the higher echelons of Scottish society 

But you are right about Murray

I have never ever trusted him

Edited by Ally Bongo
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