Full Back Options

[Third Lanark]

Incredibly we now have more options at right back than at left back:

in order of likely selection:

Patterson                                                              Robertson

O'Donnell                                                              Tierney

Ralston                                                                  Hickey

Hickey                                                                   Doig

Ramsay

Ashby

This means that Greg Taylor can now be left behind as Hickey can cover both sides equally well. I put Ralston ahead of Ramsay because of experience at both club and country only. SOD will be phased out too but very gradually as Clarke will not overlook his 20 caps experience, a big factor in international football. Ashby and Doig should both be allowed to develop experience with the U-21s.

 

 

 

[breeks_mctavish]

We have a never ending conveyor belt of full backs 😂

Have the performance school coaches only read chapter one of the manual so far? 😉

[thesaint]

Hope Ashby at West Ham is commited to us.I know he has played at under 17.under 19 and under 21,but that arsehole Declan Rice at West Ham played for the Republic of Ireland at various levels and then went over to the darkside.Really hopes he keeps the faith with us.Choosing us over england would make him a hero in my eyes.

[bigfingers]

With O’Donnell likely to drop out in the next year or 2 we’ve got 5 players fighting for that right back slot for the next 10-12 years, Ralston being the oldest at 23. 

[noctonjock]

1 hour ago, thesaint said:

Hope Ashby at West Ham is commited to us.I know he has played at under 17.under 19 and under 21,but that arsehole Declan Rice at West Ham played for the Republic of Ireland at various levels and then went over to the darkside.Really hopes he keeps the faith with us.Choosing us over england would make him a hero in my eyes.

Wouldnt worry too much as England have about 4 right backs in front of him 

[ProudScot]

2 minutes ago, noctonjock said:

Wouldnt worry too much as England have about 4 right backs in front of him 

*10 more like, maybe more. 

[kumnio]

29 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

*10 more like, maybe more. 

Cant remember who it was, but someone published an England 11 made up of only English RBs, well apart from the goalie. It looked a very decent side in all honesty 😂.

There seems to be an abundance of RBs right now.

[thesaint]

1 hour ago, ProudScot said:

*10 more like, maybe more. 

Don't care about any of them.Only interested in this boys commitment to SCOTLAND.He's well quoted,so hopefully he can push on.

[Malcolm]

If I was picking a squad tomorrow, I would select Patterson, o donnel, Robertson and hickey, recognising tierney could also cover if needed.

I think Taylor’s time has been and gone now.

[thesaint]

7 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

If I was picking a squad tomorrow, I would select Patterson, o donnel, Robertson and hickey, recognising tierney could also cover if needed.

I think Taylor’s time has been and gone now.

O'Donnel and Patterson .After that it's open to anybody else to stake a claim.The more options the better.

[ceudmilefailte]

2 hours ago, noctonjock said:

Wouldnt worry too much as England have about 4 right backs in front of him 

So do Scotland.

Ashby has to be the most over hyped player on here for years.

[thesaint]

38 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

So do Scotland.

Ashby has to be the most over hyped player on here for years.

To be honest,i'm only going by what i've read.The reports seem pretty positive,but i'm perfectly willing to accept he could be talked up too much.Has anybody seen much of him playing?

[Tartan blood]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

If I was picking a squad tomorrow, I would select Patterson, o donnel, Robertson and hickey, recognising tierney could also cover if needed.

I think Taylor’s time has been and gone now.

I'm just wondering how much of what you've said over the last few months is actually your opinion or if you have been trolling this whole time. 

[ceudmilefailte]

8 hours ago, thesaint said:

To be honest,i'm only going by what i've read.The reports seem pretty positive,but i'm perfectly willing to accept he could be talked up too much.Has anybody seen much of him playing?

I don't think anyone  has seen much of him play unless they have been going to West Ham under 23 games and considering what most of us think of that level it won't mean much.

As you say reports are great but that is hardly a reason to suggest a call up. He might well go on to be a great player but he is a very long way from proving that at the moment.

[Malcolm]

8 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

I'm just wondering how much of what you've said over the last few months is actually your opinion or if you have been trolling this whole time. 

not sure what you mean?  I don’t see suggesting tierney could cover left back in an emergency is remotely controversial.  I think it’s recognised that his starting position is now left centre half for us.

[Tartan blood]

1 hour ago, Malcolm said:

not sure what you mean?  I don’t see suggesting tierney could cover left back in an emergency is remotely controversial.  I think it’s recognised that his starting position is now left centre half for us.

Ah okay. Apologies, I totally misinterpreted what you were saying. I thought you were meaning he would be behind Hickey in the squad. My bad. 

Hickey does seem like such an obvious inclusion based on his versatility. We've been incredibly lucky with injuries with Robertson the last couple of years, but there will surely be a time where we need someone else to fill in. Will Tierney automatically be shifted left, or should it be Hickey? Tough decision.

[Malcolm]

46 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

Ah okay. Apologies, I totally misinterpreted what you were saying. I thought you were meaning he would be behind Hickey in the squad. My bad. 

Hickey does seem like such an obvious inclusion based on his versatility. We've been incredibly lucky with injuries with Robertson the last couple of years, but there will surely be a time where we need someone else to fill in. Will Tierney automatically be shifted left, or should it be Hickey? Tough decision.

i think currently tierney would be shifted out until hickey gets a run in the squad.  I think it would be better if we get hickey in to the squad soon so we have the option of keeping tierney where he is.

[Tartan blood]

30 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

i think currently tierney would be shifted out until hickey gets a run in the squad.  I think it would be better if we get hickey in to the squad soon so we have the option of keeping tierney where he is.

I think it's similar to how Turnbull, Gilmour and Patterson were integrated. We were all screaming out for the 3 of them to be included before they were, but, in the end, the timing was probably right. 

You'd think it's just a matter of time before Hickey is called up and then he'll be permanently in the squad, like the aforementioned. I'll be very interested to see the March squad. Will Hickey be called up, and will Ralston be included again.

[ProudScot]

5 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

I think it's similar to how Turnbull, Gilmour and Patterson were integrated. We were all screaming out for the 3 of them to be included before they were, but, in the end, the timing was probably right. 

You'd think it's just a matter of time before Hickey is called up and then he'll be permanently in the squad, like the aforementioned. I'll be very interested to see the March squad. Will Hickey be called up, and will Ralston be included again.

It would be insanity if Hickey wasn’t in our next squad. He’s being spoken of as a contender for European golden boy. 

[Scots_Wha_Hae]

I'm all for positivity but the OP is a bit far tbh.

The right back position looks like this at present:

Patterson - established in the squad but less than a dozen senior starts. If he drops out the picture at Everton it will be hard for him to retain his Scotland spot

O'Donnell - well established in the squad and will likely remain so. Limited ability.

Hickey - the rumour that he is equally good at right (wing) back needs to die until there is some actual evidence. One game in the SPFL several years ago and some vague quotes from coaches about him being two-footed are not the same thing as demonstrable evidence at a sufficiently high level that we would be comfortable with him playing there for Scotland. Not an option.

Ramsay - an 18 year old (albeit a talented one) who has just started to break into our U21 squad and around 25 professional games to his name. Unlikely to make the squad any time soon.

Ashby - one EPL appearance. Will be nowhere near the squad until he establishes himself at a decent level (for the avoidance of doubt, that does not include the EPL U23 league). Not an option.

And left back:

Robertson - a world class EPL and Champions league winner.

Tierney - an excellent EPL player and multiple honour winner at Celtic.

Hickey - an emerging talent playing regularly in Serie A.

Doig - an established SPFL player with over 50 professional appearances over 3 seasons. Still not an option.

So in summary, our right back options are 1 established player of limited ability, 1 emerging player and a few up-and-comers that although talented and very promising are yet to fully prove themselves. At left back we have two genuine international class players, one of whom is undoubtedly world class, and 1 who has emerged this year as a genuine Serie A level player.

I think we are still very very short at right back and will continue to be for a few more years despite the promising signs of players emerging.

 

 

 

[Tartan blood]

41 minutes ago, Scots_Wha_Hae said:

I'm all for positivity but the OP is a bit far tbh.

The right back position looks like this at present:

Patterson - established in the squad but less than a dozen senior starts. If he drops out the picture at Everton it will be hard for him to retain his Scotland spot

O'Donnell - well established in the squad and will likely remain so. Limited ability.

Hickey - the rumour that he is equally good at right (wing) back needs to die until there is some actual evidence. One game in the SPFL several years ago and some vague quotes from coaches about him being two-footed are not the same thing as demonstrable evidence at a sufficiently high level that we would be comfortable with him playing there for Scotland. Not an option.

Ramsay - an 18 year old (albeit a talented one) who has just started to break into our U21 squad and around 25 professional games to his name. Unlikely to make the squad any time soon.

Ashby - one EPL appearance. Will be nowhere near the squad until he establishes himself at a decent level (for the avoidance of doubt, that does not include the EPL U23 league). Not an option.

And left back:

Robertson - a world class EPL and Champions league winner.

Tierney - an excellent EPL player and multiple honour winner at Celtic.

Hickey - an emerging talent playing regularly in Serie A.

Doig - an established SPFL player with over 50 professional appearances over 3 seasons. Still not an option.

So in summary, our right back options are 1 established player of limited ability, 1 emerging player and a few up-and-comers that although talented and very promising are yet to fully prove themselves. At left back we have two genuine international class players, one of whom is undoubtedly world class, and 1 who has emerged this year as a genuine Serie A level player.

I think we are still very very short at right back and will continue to be for a few more years despite the promising signs of players emerging.

 

 

 

I agree with what you said about Hickey. He is a left wing back and should be seen as a long term understudy to Robertson. He is 8 years younger than him, so I'm sure he'll get his shot in the future.

You missed out Ralston. Only just turned 23, has European experience and has so far been one of Celtic's most important players this year. I'd say he would be the most obvious mid-term replacement for SOD. Ramsay and Patterson obviously have a frightening amount of potential, and are most likely the long term options.

[Scots_Wha_Hae]

Of course, and Ralston was also mentioned in the original post, apologies. The general point I made I think still stands though, we are far more comfortable at left back where we have two established and classy players than at right back where we have none. Indeed, were we to uncover a genuine international class left sided centre back our options at left back would start to look a little bit silly. Fingers and toes crossed the right back situation changes more quickly than I expect (i.e. Patterson and Ashby both become EPL regulars by next year) but I doubt that to be honest. I think a reasonable target for having a number of genuine options to choose from would be 2024/2025.

[0Neils40yarder]

8 hours ago, Scots_Wha_Hae said:

Of course, and Ralston was also mentioned in the original post, apologies. The general point I made I think still stands though, we are far more comfortable at left back where we have two established and classy players than at right back where we have none. Indeed, were we to uncover a genuine international class left sided centre back our options at left back would start to look a little bit silly. Fingers and toes crossed the right back situation changes more quickly than I expect (i.e. Patterson and Ashby both become EPL regulars by next year) but I doubt that to be honest. I think a reasonable target for having a number of genuine options to choose from would be 2024/2025.

I get what you're saying, but at the same time the 'progress' in this position, which has been a real worry for such a long time, is staggering...we have gone from SOD and Liam Palmer and virtually no one else, to having SOD and Patterson and 3 or 4 real up and coming contenders in the guys you mention, Ramsay, Ralston, Ashby...and in my opinion Hickey, who looks to me to have every tool required to play just about anywhere on the pitch, two-feet, athletic, quick, good awareness, comfortable on the ball.

[scotlad]

On 1/6/2022 at 11:42 AM, Scots_Wha_Hae said:

I'm all for positivity but the OP is a bit far tbh.

The right back position looks like this at present:

Patterson - established in the squad but less than a dozen senior starts. If he drops out the picture at Everton it will be hard for him to retain his Scotland spot

O'Donnell - well established in the squad and will likely remain so. Limited ability.

Hickey - the rumour that he is equally good at right (wing) back needs to die until there is some actual evidence. One game in the SPFL several years ago and some vague quotes from coaches about him being two-footed are not the same thing as demonstrable evidence at a sufficiently high level that we would be comfortable with him playing there for Scotland. Not an option.

Ramsay - an 18 year old (albeit a talented one) who has just started to break into our U21 squad and around 25 professional games to his name. Unlikely to make the squad any time soon.

Ashby - one EPL appearance. Will be nowhere near the squad until he establishes himself at a decent level (for the avoidance of doubt, that does not include the EPL U23 league). Not an option.

And left back:

Robertson - a world class EPL and Champions league winner.

Tierney - an excellent EPL player and multiple honour winner at Celtic.

Hickey - an emerging talent playing regularly in Serie A.

Doig - an established SPFL player with over 50 professional appearances over 3 seasons. Still not an option.

So in summary, our right back options are 1 established player of limited ability, 1 emerging player and a few up-and-comers that although talented and very promising are yet to fully prove themselves. At left back we have two genuine international class players, one of whom is undoubtedly world class, and 1 who has emerged this year as a genuine Serie A level player.

I think we are still very very short at right back and will continue to be for a few more years despite the promising signs of players emerging.

 

 

 

Was Hickey not Hearts' regular RB before he moved to Italy?

[Scots_Wha_Hae]

17 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

I get what you're saying, but at the same time the 'progress' in this position, which has been a real worry for such a long time, is staggering...we have gone from SOD and Liam Palmer and virtually no one else, to having SOD and Patterson and 3 or 4 real up and coming contenders in the guys you mention, Ramsay, Ralston, Ashby...and in my opinion Hickey, who looks to me to have every tool required to play just about anywhere on the pitch, two-feet, athletic, quick, good awareness, comfortable on the ball.

I'm definitely more positive than I can remember about right back. It's been a problem position for ages. I can't remember if we ever had them playing well at the same time, but even when we had Hutton and Bardsley in the squad there was absolutely nothing after them.