Tino Livramento

[Diamond Scot]

3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Sorry but my 'strict rules'?

Where exactly have I created rules?

I am merely dealing in the facts before me which says he was born, raised, schooled and brought up in England. And he has chosen to represent England - not held at gunpoint and forced into playing for them. It is by his own choice.

He captains England at junior levels so he must appear pretty damned committed to get that accolade.

This sudden interest in him came from a report in the Daily Record where he says his dad seems to want him to play for Portugal whilst (using the Daily Record's words) his mother more wants me to play for Scotland over anyone. Right so I'd imagine his mum has been bending his ear for a few years now as it would make no sense to just start getting vocal now yet he still chose England and has been representing them for around five years now so even under pressure from his mum he still has remained loyal to England. That says a lot to me.

You stated above that he wants to represent only them. You have nothing to base that on. He may very well only have represented them so far but that doesnt speak to whats in his mind. For all you know he might want to represent England, Scotland and Portugal but its not possible to do that.

He might go his entire career just playing for England but that doesnt say anything on how he feels about Scotland. He might only want to play for England now but could change his mind if his mother fell ill or died.

You dont get to aged 16 in life and decide how you feel on everything for the rest of your life. Life is complex.

Just because you like 1 thing in life doesnt mean you cant also like other things at the same time.

 

[Caledonian Craig]

3 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

You stated above that he wants to represent only them. You have nothing to base that on. He may very well only have represented them so far but that doesnt speak to whats in his mind. For all you know he might want to represent England, Scotland and Portugal but its not possible to do that.

He might go his entire career just playing for England but that doesnt say anything on how he feels about Scotland. He might only want to play for England now but could change his mind if his mother fell ill or died.

You dont get to aged 16 in life and decide how you feel on everything for the rest of your life. Life is complex.

Just because you like 1 thing in life doesnt mean you cant also like other things at the same time.

 

Yes and likewise the same can be said that he may not have an interest in playing for Scotland or Portugal either.

Would it not seem obvious to say that if he (right now) had split feelings or a draw towards Scotland he'd use a press meeting as a chance to voice it especially as the subject was brought up but obviously he did not. Not even a muttering that he'd think over switching allegiance. If he had a thrown a crumb of hope the Daily Record's way they'd have mentioned it. He clearly didn't so right now I'd say the matter is closed on the subject.

[csinclair]

Didn't he say the other day something along the lines of 'my dad wants me to play for portugal, my mum wants me to play for scotland but i'm not making any decisions just now'?

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, csinclair said:

Didn't he say the other day something along the lines of 'my dad wants me to play for portugal, my mum wants me to play for scotland but i'm not making any decisions just now'?

No. Not according to the Daily Record. And 'not making any decisions just now' sounds damned downright disrespectful to England in all fairness - if he even did say that as the Record certainly never quoted him as saying that. And I am sure if he had of done they would have mentioned it for sure.

[Diamond Scot]

19 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes and likewise the same can be said that he may not have an interest in playing for Scotland or Portugal either.

Would it not seem obvious to say that if he (right now) had split feelings or a draw towards Scotland he'd use a press meeting as a chance to voice it especially as the subject was brought up but obviously he did not. Not even a muttering that he'd think over switching allegiance. If he had a thrown a crumb of hope the Daily Record's way they'd have mentioned it. He clearly didn't so right now I'd say the matter is closed on the subject.

It wasnt an interview with the Daily Record. It was a Q&A with Southampton TV where he revealed that he can play for Portugal and Scotland. That was the extent of it. Conclusions can be drawn to support any argument. Ie why mention it if he wasnt even considering it.

However most likely it was a throw away innocent comment when just answering a question. Ive no doubt he feels English, ive also seen nothing to suggest that he doesnt feel Scottish (his mum is clearly patriotic).

You twice use the term right now. Lets agree that as of right now he isnt an option however at some point in the future he might be and should that day arise we shouldnt second guess his reasons or have him justify himself. Lets judge him on his commitment just like we would any other player who pulls on the jersey.

[Caledonian Craig]

Just now, Diamond Scot said:

Lets agree that as of right now he isnt an option however at some point in the future he might be and should that day arise we shouldnt second guess his reasons or have him justify himself. Lets judge him on his commitment just like we would any other player who pulls on the jersey.

Yes I agree. But you see it is this 'however at some point in the future' bit that grates. You are perfectly correct that he can change his mind and that may happen if England fail to cap him at full level and he gets fed up waiting. Would that sit right with anyone here?

[dandydunn]

3 hours ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

I'll take that as you have absolutely nae idea what his injury concerns were

 

3 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

You realise there’s a massive difference between strolling a bounce game while monitoring a knock and playing an international?

If there was only an international team doctor that could’ve assessed him and confirmed he was injured. 
 

Ah well, let’s just carry on letting him pick & choose when he wants to appear, that won’t bother the other players at all. 
 

Fuck him and his excuses, you either want to play, or you don’t. 

[Orraloon]

44 minutes ago, csinclair said:

Didn't he say the other day something along the lines of 'my dad wants me to play for portugal, my mum wants me to play for scotland but i'm not making any decisions just now'?

Sounds like a very sensible thing to say. Are you sure it was a footballer who said it? 😉

[Blantyre_Braveheart]

7 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Human and different.....yes. But when it comes to how you feel internally there is no difference. We watch football as kids and get excited when the nation we feel aligned with scores. Livramento is no different there. He obviously had a talent for football and so he'd have been harbouring ambitions of who to play for. You'd need to be damned stupid to think that, someone born in England, brought up in England, schooled in England and representing England actually holds a hidden desire to play for Scotland. Now if he had originally represented us or there are articles out there where he speaks of wanting to play for us then I'd take that as a clue to how he feels. There is none of that at all. His life so far is following a path I'd expect of someone born and brought up in England. He wants to represent only them.

You should look up the articles and interviews on the lads of Mexican heritage and the US. It might change your mind. 

Being dual national particularly if it is your parent is a hard choice and sometimes you can feel like you are both. I have to English cousins who are from the same parents. One is fiercely Scottish and the other appreciates Scotland but feels English. The one who feels Scottish actually represented England at an early age before injury. I'm sure Kilbane also went to England camps despite feeling completely Irish.

A lot of dual national players go with the easy option until they finish u21 level, then decide.

 

[Rich NATA]

I haven't read all of this, but can confirm he is fantastic.

[Bzzzz]

On 10/11/2021 at 4:41 PM, Orraloon said:

A simple question doesn't always have a simple answer. He is Scottish, Portuguese and English. Whatever he wants to be. 

It will have an answer though... my attitude towards this has softened over the years a little but I still think that anyone wanting to use our national side as a jersey of convenience can gtf. 

[Bobby Russell's Lovechild]

After his performance yesterday, I think the English and Portuguese will be taking a bit more notice now. Noticed also he mentioned when interviewed he'll be watching motd with his dad. Obviously a bit of influence on his career

[mccaughey85]

4 hours ago, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said:

After his performance yesterday, I think the English and Portuguese will be taking a bit more notice now. Noticed also he mentioned when interviewed he'll be watching motd with his dad. Obviously a bit of influence on his career

Not sure what Portugals right back situation is like but I am guessing it's not as good as Englands who literally have full team of right backs who are playing at a high level. Could see Portugal being a lucrative option for him if he thinks that it would mean a greater chance of playing plus they always go to tournaments which is a massive incentive over us. 

[gaz7]

We all have our views which are all relevant depending on our point of view. The thing we all agree on is we all want Scotland to win. This boys mother is Scottish she wants him to represent Scotland so there is a huge Scottish bit in him,what is there to discuss? If Steve Clarke is serious about making us as good as possible with the best resources then he simply needs called up or at the very least asked on the qt if he wants to commit to us. Make no mistake he is outstanding and anytime I have seen him he has done great things. Get him in is my view of we can as well as gallagher and barnes who are also top players.

[mccaughey85]

5 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

We all have our views which are all relevant depending on our point of view. The thing we all agree on is we all want Scotland to win. This boys mother is Scottish she wants him to represent Scotland so there is a huge Scottish bit in him,what is there to discuss? If Steve Clarke is serious about making us as good as possible with the best resources then he simply needs called up or at the very least asked on the qt if he wants to commit to us. Make no mistake he is outstanding and anytime I have seen him he has done great things. Get him in is my view of we can as well as gallagher and barnes who are also top players.

Gallagher? If your talking about Sam Gallagher then I doubt hes worth calling up. Hes 26 and not been very good up until recently. 

I agree with the rest of what you said. Only problem is this guy livramento has 2 better options than us and he's only 18. Only hope is that both Portugal and England have such amazing options at right back that he might see us as a better chance of gametime. If we call him up now he might hold back and wait to see what his best option is.

Mctominay took a little bit of time before he fully committed to us which was fair enough considering he was brought up in England. 

Going to be a tough choice for the lad, if he picks England and then turns out to be lower epl club player then he won't get much gametime, also the same to a slightly lesser degree with Portugal. 

Portugal have right backs at wolves, man city and Leicester so they are quite strong. 

[gaz7]

4 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Gallagher? If your talking about Sam Gallagher then I doubt hes worth calling up. Hes 26 and not been very good up until recently. 

I agree with the rest of what you said. Only problem is this guy livramento has 2 better options than us and he's only 18. Only hope is that both Portugal and England have such amazing options at right back that he might see us as a better chance of gametime. If we call him up now he might hold back and wait to see what his best option is.

Mctominay took a little bit of time before he fully committed to us which was fair enough considering he was brought up in England. 

Going to be a tough choice for the lad, if he picks England and then turns out to be lower epl club player then he won't get much gametime, also the same to a slightly lesser degree with Portugal. 

Portugal have right backs at wolves, man city and Leicester so they are quite strong. 

Connor at crystal palace. Billy gilmour pal from chelsea youth team

[mccaughey85]

5 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

Connor at crystal palace. Billy gilmour pal from chelsea youth team

Didn't know he was eligible, hes a pretty good player, we should be asking him already. He's 21 and will need to make a decision about his international career soon. 

[Rich NATA]

10 hours ago, Bobby Russell's Lovechild said:

After his performance yesterday, I think the English and Portuguese will be taking a bit more notice now. Noticed also he mentioned when interviewed he'll be watching motd with his dad. Obviously a bit of influence on his career

Didn't see it myself, but I listened to it down here on BBC Radio Solent.

At the end of the commentary, Dave Merrington (the former Southampton youth coach who brought through Le Tissier, Shearer, the Wallace's etc...) described Livramento's performance as "Absolutely outstanding".

[broraboy]

On 10/12/2021 at 10:11 PM, Rich NATA said:

I haven't read all of this, but can confirm he is fantastic.

Haven’t seen the lad play, hearing good reviews about him though ! 
Scotland could potentially have a richness of full-backs 

RB position we have SoD N.Patterson C.Ramsay and this lad possibly ?? 
He has a Scottish Mother, that’s within the rules albeit he has played for 14mins as a sub for Engerland….. 

Could S.Clarke make a swoop and get him to turn out for Scotland 

If it’s good enough for England claiming D.Rice after he played for Ireland, then I say it’s fair game for Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 

[mccaughey85]

3 hours ago, broraboy said:

Haven’t seen the lad play, hearing good reviews about him though ! 
Scotland could potentially have a richness of full-backs 

RB position we have SoD N.Patterson C.Ramsay and this lad possibly ?? 
He has a Scottish Mother, that’s within the rules albeit he has played for 14mins as a sub for Engerland….. 

Could S.Clarke make a swoop and get him to turn out for Scotland 

If it’s good enough for England claiming D.Rice after he played for Ireland, then I say it’s fair game for Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 

Has livramento played for the l England senior team?

Doesn't say that on wiki. 

[Third Lanark]

20 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Didn't know he was eligible, hes a pretty good player, we should be asking him already. He's 21 and will need to make a decision about his international career soon. 

I'm sure he played for England U21s recently, but as has been said, if Rice can switch from Roi to Eng. then we should have no qualms either. 

[er yir macaroon]

1 hour ago, Third Lanark said:

I'm sure he played for England U21s recently, but as has been said, if Rice can switch from Roi to Eng. then we should have no qualms either. 

If we can get him we should, even if it’s just to piss off England. 

[broraboy]

6 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Has livramento played for the l England senior team?

Doesn't say that on wiki. 

Apologies mccaughey85, must have read that in the daily retard ! 
Appears only x1 cap at U-21 level, won’t be as bad then if he chooses his Mums wishes😉 

Watched highlights earlier on BBC Match of the Day - he certainly played well, really well 
 

[Caledonian Craig]

5 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

I'm sure he played for England U21s recently, but as has been said, if Rice can switch from Roi to Eng. then we should have no qualms either. 

Poor comparison. Switching from in decline RoI side to England who always qualify is light years away from asking someone to switch from England (always qualifying and lived their all your life) to Scotland (who are not perrenial qualifiers by any means).

[todd]

24 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Poor comparison. Switching from in decline RoI side to England who always qualify is light years away from asking someone to switch from England (always qualifying and lived their all your life) to Scotland (who are not perrenial qualifiers by any means).

So as long as you're a glory hunter it's ok to switch allegiance?