killiefaetheferry Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Considering it... Quite like the look of the Volkswagen effort. Thoughts, experiences...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave78 Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 2 hours ago, killiefaetheferry said: Considering it... Quite like the look of the Volkswagen effort. Thoughts, experiences...? I switched from a diesel to a electric ID3 back in March. Have found the change pretty painless. Definitely helps that i got a charger installed at home. I get about 400kms from a full charge if i take it easy on the motorway, which is enough for the work i do (which takes me up and down the east side of the country). Have done about 30,000 km since i got it... No complaints so far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiefaetheferry Posted September 28, 2021 Author Share Posted September 28, 2021 How are you finding driving without the gear changes? Does it just accelerate smoothly or is like the old 'automatic' gear change? How much does your 400km cost in electricity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 This guy is very interesting on the subject. He is very pro green and also a big car guy. Apparently this is all EU driven (pun intended). Very interesting on the hidden emissions of electric cars. From what he says in other videos I think he thinks Hydrogen cells will be a better solution. Has another vid with the guy behind JCB and he reckons the same, especially for industrial vehicles. He also quotes some interesting stats that are worth considering (especially when you get folk on here talking about scrapping the Scottish Oil & Gas industries)... Regarding CO2 emissions he quotes the figures and gives an example. If there was a master switch in the UK that turned everything off - meaning zero CO2 emissions (in 2019 year) for the whole of the UK - then at the rate of growth of China (in 2018) their increase alone in 2019 would have wiped the UK's entire saving completely out in just 9 months. When you compare to example what we might realistically achieve in terms of CO2 reduction China's growth wipes it all out in mere weeks. People keep explaining this to the zealots but they don't listen - it is a spit in the ocean - but they are zealots and they would rather destroy our industries in pointless acts of self immolation gesture politics. We in the West transferred a massive amount of our manufacturing and jobs to China (to make more profits) and now we are complaining about them polluting and the conclusion is the WE have to close even more industries to compensate for them... it is a joke. Why not confront China and de-invest if they don't stop. Naw easier to make Scottish people redundant and close down their jobs when it makes no difference. And now we all have to drive electric cars. It is a fucking nonsense really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave78 Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 1 hour ago, killiefaetheferry said: How are you finding driving without the gear changes? Does it just accelerate smoothly or is like the old 'automatic' gear change? How much does your 400km cost in electricity? Acceleration is really smooth, and quick! 0-60 in just over 7 seconds. A full charge costs me 11 euros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redz Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 24 minutes ago, Dave78 said: Acceleration is really smooth, and quick! 0-60 in just over 7 seconds. A full charge costs me 11 euros. We looked into buying one earlier on this year, but was put off by the battery life expectancy / replacement cost at that time. Interested to hear your view on this, as you have one, and our thoughts may have been premature / naive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 I've had the same car for ages, and before it my brother had it for ages. In fact It's 14 years old and my family is the only folk to own it. Think it's done 72k miles now. I'll never be able to afford an electric car at current prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killiefaetheferry Posted September 28, 2021 Author Share Posted September 28, 2021 PCP deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 I did look up the price when Dave quoted 11 euros a 'tank'. 30-40 grand for a Fiesta sized car it looks like. How much for the new batteries when you need them out of curiosity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, killiefaetheferry said: PCP deal? I had to google that. As never heard of it. I don't need a car as my one works fine (probably just jinxed it to fuck now). I'm also very reluctant to ever use credit. Going into debt for thousands of pounds would give me anxiety! I'm sure prices will drop at some point and then I can consider it. A friend has a Tesla and apparently there are places around that you can charge it for free. Although might take longer than the charger they have at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thplinth Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 Maybe he means you will have to start dealing in Angel Dust to be able to afford one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 The warranty on my friends Tesla batteries is 8 years and something like 140,000 miles, can't mind exactly what mileage he said. So if it packs in it is a free replacement. Planned obsolescence means i don't see it lasting much longer. I do a lot of walking and there's a lot more Tesla's in town last 9 months than I ever remembered. I don't know if this is a product of a mate getting one and then suddenly i start noticing (Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon) them or folk are just buying them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orraloon Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 55 minutes ago, phart said: I've had the same car for ages, and before it my brother had it for ages. In fact It's 14 years old and my family is the only folk to own it. Think it's done 72k miles now. I'll never be able to afford an electric car at current prices. For me this is the better way to look at "saving the planet". There is no need to change cars every few years. It's the same with built in obsolescence in all our tech gadgets, etc. It's the throw away commercialism that is the problem. My last car was 18 years old when I parted with it. There is no reason why things can't last that long. I hope my current car lasts as long although in ten years time there might me no petrol to fill it with if some folk have their way. It's this constant drive for positive economic growth which will eventually destroy the human race, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave78 Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Redz said: We looked into buying one earlier on this year, but was put off by the battery life expectancy / replacement cost at that time. Interested to hear your view on this, as you have one, and our thoughts may have been premature / naive? I haven't noticed any battery degradation so far. Assuming VW's batteries are as good as Tesla's, i think it'll lose about 10-15% over the 10 years or so i expect to have the car. Re replacement batteries, VW have make the battery pack modular, which helps prevent having to replace the entire battery i believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phart Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 46 minutes ago, Orraloon said: For me this is the better way to look at "saving the planet". There is no need to change cars every few years. It's the same with built in obsolescence in all our tech gadgets, etc. It's the throw away commercialism that is the problem. My last car was 18 years old when I parted with it. There is no reason why things can't last that long. I hope my current car lasts as long although in ten years time there might me no petrol to fill it with if some folk have their way. It's this constant drive for positive economic growth which will eventually destroy the human race, IMO. I agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redz Posted September 28, 2021 Share Posted September 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Dave78 said: I haven't noticed any battery degradation so far. Assuming VW's batteries are as good as Tesla's, i think it'll lose about 10-15% over the 10 years or so i expect to have the car. Re replacement batteries, VW have make the battery pack modular, which helps prevent having to replace the entire battery i believe. Thanks We were told 8 years battery life and 8-10k to replace it If true, and with even the smallest elec vehicles being upwards of 30k, I'm guessing that the resale would drop significantly more than petrol / diesel That's the bit that I'm most unsure of Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotlad Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 On 9/28/2021 at 11:00 AM, phart said: I had to google that. As never heard of it. I don't need a car as my one works fine (probably just jinxed it to fuck now). I'm also very reluctant to ever use credit. Going into debt for thousands of pounds would give me anxiety! I'm sure prices will drop at some point and then I can consider it. A friend has a Tesla and apparently there are places around that you can charge it for free. Although might take longer than the charger they have at home. I don't think I'd buy a car any other way now (unless I win the lottery). What I like about it is there's no need to pay the balloon payment at the end of the contract, you can just hand it back. On 9/28/2021 at 11:24 AM, Orraloon said: For me this is the better way to look at "saving the planet". There is no need to change cars every few years. It's the same with built in obsolescence in all our tech gadgets, etc. It's the throw away commercialism that is the problem. My last car was 18 years old when I parted with it. There is no reason why things can't last that long. I hope my current car lasts as long although in ten years time there might me no petrol to fill it with if some folk have their way. It's this constant drive for positive economic growth which will eventually destroy the human race, IMO. I know where you're coming from and I used to say the same - until my 12-year-old Astra, which had never had anything wrong with it, decided to give up the ghost right in the middle of one of Glasgow's busiest junctions. 🤦♂️ After that experience I decided to update my car every three or four years (and avoid Vauxhalls!). As for electric cars, they certainly look like the future at the moment. If you don't do long journeys they are probably a good buy but they are a bit more expensive to buy, the batteries don't tend to last long and, at the moment, the charging infrastructure isn't quite there, which isn't ideal if you don't have an outdoor power point of your own. Hopefully things will improve over time though. Whenever I hear of electric cars though it reminds me of this: https://youtu.be/X2HX5wsQVEA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDYER63 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 My husband is an auto electrician. He says the life time of batteries is 10 yrs and currently costs £8-10k to replace a battery. He thinks taking the finance deal rather than buying outright as renewing the car after 3 years means the car has some reasonable value in it. However things are changing very quickly and the price of batteries will reduce. I read this earlier in Reuters. Wouldn’t normally be interested but noticed this thread so had a look. China are about to launch their first electric car in Europe, in Oslo. They are not known for their excellence in car manufacturing but if China do make inroads into Europe it should bring the prices down. Saying in here it could take 10 years. Might be worth running the same electric car for 10 years and switching when the price comes down. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chinas-electric-carmakers-make-their-move-europe-2021-09-30/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 I have a late generation diesel as described in the video. It’s a monster 4.4l v8 engine and I love it. I have no intention of going electric until I absolutely have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave78 Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Electric cars annoying all the right people... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Jim Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Dave78 said: Electric cars annoying all the right people... I just don't know where to start with all that 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
er yir macaroon Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 We got a cheap used 2014 Nissan Leaf a couple of years ago and it is fantastic. Admittedly we don’t go on long journeys much, but for day to day it is brilliant, but for a longer 3 hour journey we charge twice on the way (20 min each time) and have a cup of coffee etc. Newer models of course do that on one charge. Plug in at the drive way, no queues at petrol station. It is a great car to drive, instant torque, and a bit like the dodgems - blisteringly quick 0-30 mph. The battery is still the same as it was when new and is not even a consideration. Faulty cells can be removed (I think the battery has about 80 or so, can’t remember) so you don’t need to change the whole battery, but no problems so far. The battery life estimates are extremely conservative. Early Leafs are still bombing around like they are new. Zero chance we’ll ever go back to petrol or diesel. When we sell this one the prices will have come down and we’ll go second hand electric again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 On 10/17/2021 at 7:24 AM, er yir macaroon said: We got a cheap used 2014 Nissan Leaf a couple of years ago and it is fantastic. Admittedly we don’t go on long journeys much, but for day to day it is brilliant, but for a longer 3 hour journey we charge twice on the way (20 min each time) and have a cup of coffee etc. Newer models of course do that on one charge. Plug in at the drive way, no queues at petrol station. It is a great car to drive, instant torque, and a bit like the dodgems - blisteringly quick 0-30 mph. The battery is still the same as it was when new and is not even a consideration. Faulty cells can be removed (I think the battery has about 80 or so, can’t remember) so you don’t need to change the whole battery, but no problems so far. The battery life estimates are extremely conservative. Early Leafs are still bombing around like they are new. Zero chance we’ll ever go back to petrol or diesel. When we sell this one the prices will have come down and we’ll go second hand electric again. So you stop once an hour. That means you're stopping to charge the battery ever 70 miles at most, and it's taking you 3 hrs and 40 minutes to travel at most 210 miles. That's an average speed of 57.3mph assuming you're on unrestricted roads all the way against 70mph without the charging stops. That's the Achilles heel of electric cars - the time to recharge the batteries. I know some of the latest cars are far better with more energy-dense batteries, but not all are - the current Mini electric has a range of about 100 miles, fine for pottering about town but useless for longer trips. Add in the difficulty of charging en route - every time I drive into a service area, there are folk waiting to get a vacant charging slot. i know the number of charging point will increase, but how do you sort out the problem of streets with tenements - not everyone has a house with a driveway. I like the idea of an electric car, but at the moment they are a niche product due to not having the infrastructure to back them up. If they had a system where a modular battery pack could be changed in a few minutes and a charged one clipped into place, they would become more appealing. In the long term I think we might be seeing a Betamax period at the moment, with the VHS of hydrogen cars coming along quite soon. It also seems to be the case that overall electric cars are not as clean as the end user might think - and there's still the problem of generating capacity if everyone has one. I suspect electric cars might be a false dawn at least for longer journeys and remote areas. As an in-town runabout, yes, but it's a hell of a lot of money even for the cheapest models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
er yir macaroon Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 44 minutes ago, Alibi said: So you stop once an hour. That means you're stopping to charge the battery ever 70 miles at most, and it's taking you 3 hrs and 40 minutes to travel at most 210 miles. That's an average speed of 57.3mph assuming you're on unrestricted roads all the way against 70mph without the charging stops. That's the Achilles heel of electric cars - the time to recharge the batteries. I know some of the latest cars are far better with more energy-dense batteries, but not all are - the current Mini electric has a range of about 100 miles, fine for pottering about town but useless for longer trips. Add in the difficulty of charging en route - every time I drive into a service area, there are folk waiting to get a vacant charging slot. i know the number of charging point will increase, but how do you sort out the problem of streets with tenements - not everyone has a house with a driveway. I like the idea of an electric car, but at the moment they are a niche product due to not having the infrastructure to back them up. If they had a system where a modular battery pack could be changed in a few minutes and a charged one clipped into place, they would become more appealing. In the long term I think we might be seeing a Betamax period at the moment, with the VHS of hydrogen cars coming along quite soon. It also seems to be the case that overall electric cars are not as clean as the end user might think - and there's still the problem of generating capacity if everyone has one. I suspect electric cars might be a false dawn at least for longer journeys and remote areas. As an in-town runabout, yes, but it's a hell of a lot of money even for the cheapest models. I’m not going to debate the rights and wrongs of it, but a second hand electric, first generation Leaf (about £7k now), for someone who drives less than 70 miles a day 90% of the time and has their own driveway, it’s an absolute dream to own and drive. We see the in-laws 2-3 times a year and if charging twice adds an extra 45 mins to the journey, bring it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
er yir macaroon Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/uk.motor1.com/news/462860/ev-drivers-wouldnt-return-petrol/amp/ It’s hard to imagine anyone who’s experienced owning an electric car ever going back to petrol or diesel and the above backs that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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