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Patterson, Fraser and McLean out


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1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

It's been one or two games where mcrgegor and gilmour have looked good together. I don't just thinkctominqy plays because of who he plays for, I think he's also a better player. 

I suspect you are right, mctlminay will go into a back 3 to give us someone who can pass the ball from the back.

There’s no doubt McTominay is a better player than McGregor but if he’s not performing for Scotland I don’t think he should automatically be in ahead of anyone.  Clarke may well disagree with me.

Will be interesting to see what Clarke does with Hanley out. Especially if McTominay isn’t back in time. 

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8 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

There’s no doubt McTominay is a better player than McGregor but if he’s not performing for Scotland I don’t think he should automatically be in ahead of anyone.  Clarke may well disagree with me.

Will be interesting to see what Clarke does with Hanley out. Especially if McTominay isn’t back in time. 

Looking at the Red Cafe forum McTominay is back in training. Could even play on Saturday.

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9 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Looking at the Red Cafe forum McTominay is back in training. Could even play on Saturday.

Yeah I read he’s close to coming back and hopefully that’s true as it would be good to have everyone available for two huge games next month. 

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1 hour ago, Texas Pete said:

There’s no doubt McTominay is a better player than McGregor but if he’s not performing for Scotland I don’t think he should automatically be in ahead of anyone.  Clarke may well disagree with me.

Will be interesting to see what Clarke does with Hanley out. Especially if McTominay isn’t back in time. 

There’s doubt as far as I’m concerned. I’ve not seen anything from McTominey at club or international level to suggest that’s true.  He’s younger than him so he may turn out to be better but at this point, I’m not convinced. 

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i believe we've not seen the best of McTominay in a Scotland shirt because he's either not playing his natural position or his natural role. Put him in the midfield beside Gilmour with McGinn ahead of him and Patterson on his flank. I think youll see our right side become far more effective.

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16 minutes ago, aaid said:

There’s doubt as far as I’m concerned. I’ve not seen anything from McTominey at club or international level to suggest that’s true.  He’s younger than him so he may turn out to be better but at this point, I’m not convinced. 

Do you genuinely think Callum McGregor could hold down a starting place at Manchester United? 

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14 minutes ago, aaid said:

Ah, so that’s it, he plays for Manchester United so he must be good.

That’s not what I said. I literally said the opposite to that in an earlier post today in fact.  

I notice you didn’t answer my question though. 

Edited by Texas Pete
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I've watched a lot of McTominay for Man Utd in the past two years and to be honest I think whilst he's had some great games for them, he hasn't produced his best for Scotland yet. I think a big part of that though is his position. He's done a job for us at RCB but I'd say Hendry is the better option there now. We've also tried to play him as a holding midfielder but I think he likes to roam box-to-box too much and has a tendency to stray from position. Maybe alongside Gilmour it could work but I feel like Gilmour & McGregor have played well and deserve the shirts for now

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17 minutes ago, csinclair said:

I've watched a lot of McTominay for Man Utd in the past two years and to be honest I think whilst he's had some great games for them, he hasn't produced his best for Scotland yet. I think a big part of that though is his position. He's done a job for us at RCB but I'd say Hendry is the better option there now. We've also tried to play him as a holding midfielder but I think he likes to roam box-to-box too much and has a tendency to stray from position. Maybe alongside Gilmour it could work but I feel like Gilmour & McGregor have played well and deserve the shirts for now

I think it’s good that we are now beginning to have some depth to the squad, there’s now competition in nearly every area of the pitch. This is what we want and need if we are to compete and move up the rankings and hopefully qualify for some more tournaments. McGregor has played well with Gilmour. But in my opinion McTominay beside Gilmour with Patterson on the outside is where we need to go, it’s an exciting prospect.

By the way, we aren’t seeing the best from McTominay in his role at Man Utd, The system they play doesn’t really suit his instincts to carry the ball and drive in the opposition half. I think he could find that the Scotland team / setup is better suited to his talents than the Man Utd setup.

Edited by Scot1
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McTominay is a better player than McGregor by a  reasonable distance for me.  However, McGregor and Gilmour seemed to have a good understanding vs Austria and there was a couple of times the ball was zipping about between them and Robertson, Tierney and McGinn in particular plus closing down as a cohesive unit refreshingly.  

Not a massive McGregor fan but following on from Tuesday I'd say it was his  jersey to lose vs Israel.  

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15 hours ago, aaid said:

There’s doubt as far as I’m concerned. I’ve not seen anything from McTominey at club or international level to suggest that’s true.  He’s younger than him so he may turn out to be better but at this point, I’m not convinced. 

 

14 hours ago, csinclair said:

I've watched a lot of McTominay for Man Utd in the past two years and to be honest I think whilst he's had some great games for them, he hasn't produced his best for Scotland yet. I think a big part of that though is his position. He's done a job for us at RCB but I'd say Hendry is the better option there now. We've also tried to play him as a holding midfielder but I think he likes to roam box-to-box too much and has a tendency to stray from position. Maybe alongside Gilmour it could work but I feel like Gilmour & McGregor have played well and deserve the shirts for now

These comments pretty much sum it up for me. I’ve said before that I don’t think McTominay has shown anything to make him a starter for us either in defence or midfield.
 

His passing out from the back as a RCB did look good in a couple of games but I think he was vulnerable defensively and, for me, I think Hendry is better in there and will improve with more experience. 

In midfield I just think McGregor and Gilmour are tidier on the ball and positionally. You could argue the same for Jack as well. I don’t know if it’s McTominay’s tendency to roam but I feel as if there’s just something about his play and positioning that’s a bit erratic. He definitely does have great attributes so will be interesting to see how he improves as he matures. 
 

14 hours ago, Scot1 said:

I think it’s good that we are now beginning to have some depth to the squad, there’s now competition in nearly every area of the pitch. This is what we want and need if we are to compete and move up the rankings and hopefully qualify for some more tournaments. McGregor has played well with Gilmour. But in my opinion McTominay beside Gilmour with Patterson on the outside is where we need to go, it’s an exciting prospect.

By the way, we aren’t seeing the best from McTominay in his role at Man Utd, The system they play doesn’t really suit his instincts to carry the ball and drive in the opposition half. I think he could find that the Scotland team / setup is better suited to his talents than the Man Utd setup.


McGinn does that for us and is better at it than McTominay. 

 

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1 hour ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Absolutely not but McTominay for whatever reason, hasn’t performed in the midfield for us yet. 

Yes, I agree and have said as much earlier in the thread. I am stuck in the middle of two conversations I think. 

I don’t think McTominay should just waltz back into the midfield given the partnership between Gilmour and McGregor seems to be developing nicely.

I do think McTominay is a more talented footballer than McGregor though and he may well break back into the midfield. 

I reckon he’ll be back in defence against Israel though. 

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I’m glad we have McTominay and McGregor. With Hanley out there is a fair chance Hendry will be moved to the middle and McTominay goes RCB. A big call from Clarke if he does move Hendry across but he played there for Ostend. This would allow us to play a very high line if Tierney is the LCB, meaning we should control the midfield. That wouldn’t be so easy with Cooper in the middle as we’d need to sit a bit deeper. 

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3 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

I’m glad we have McTominay and McGregor. With Hanley out there is a fair chance Hendry will be moved to the middle and McTominay goes RCB. A big call from Clarke if he does move Hendry across but he played there for Ostend. This would allow us to play a very high line if Tierney is the LCB, meaning we should control the midfield. That wouldn’t be so easy with Cooper in the middle as we’d need to sit a bit deeper. 

Pretty much the way I see it too.

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3 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

I’m glad we have McTominay and McGregor. With Hanley out there is a fair chance Hendry will be moved to the middle and McTominay goes RCB. A big call from Clarke if he does move Hendry across but he played there for Ostend. This would allow us to play a very high line if Tierney is the LCB, meaning we should control the midfield. That wouldn’t be so easy with Cooper in the middle as we’d need to sit a bit deeper. 

Exactly. Let’s just hope everyone is available for next month. 

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13 hours ago, Texas Pete said:

Yes, I agree and have said as much earlier in the thread. I am stuck in the middle of two conversations I think. 

I don’t think McTominay should just waltz back into the midfield given the partnership between Gilmour and McGregor seems to be developing nicely.

I do think McTominay is a more talented footballer than McGregor though and he may well break back into the midfield. 

I reckon he’ll be back in defence against Israel though. 

Agreed.

At the very least he’s the potential to play at a higher level for the rest of his career than what McGregor does.

I think the 3 of them could potentially play in midfield together with McGinn further up in some games. 

I don’t think it’s all McTominay’s fault either why he’s not been able to shine in midfield for us yet so far. 

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18 hours ago, AlfieMoon said:

 

These comments pretty much sum it up for me. I’ve said before that I don’t think McTominay has shown anything to make him a starter for us either in defence or midfield.
 

His passing out from the back as a RCB did look good in a couple of games but I think he was vulnerable defensively and, for me, I think Hendry is better in there and will improve with more experience. 

In midfield I just think McGregor and Gilmour are tidier on the ball and positionally. You could argue the same for Jack as well. I don’t know if it’s McTominay’s tendency to roam but I feel as if there’s just something about his play and positioning that’s a bit erratic. He definitely does have great attributes so will be interesting to see how he improves as he matures. 
 


McGinn does that for us and is better at it than McTominay. 

 

With McTominay in beside Gilmour and with Patterson and Hendry beside and behind him, it’ll give us the ability to move up and down the park fast, the athleticism is outstanding, footballing ability aside. In my opinion McTominay would add another dimension to the team both offensively and defensively because of his athleticism. Similar to what the Danes did to us in the last match, and we struggled with their pace and power. I think many teams would struggle with our athleticism combined with our footballing ability. If we want to score more goals, McTominay with Patterson on the flank will be one way we will do that. 
McGinn is an attacking midfielder, you want him to stay as high up the pitch as possible, you want McTominay taking the ball from the defence or Gilmour, driving into the opposition half and then linking up with McGinn, Patterson, the Strikers etc. 
McTominay will give us an extra body, outlet in attack to support McGinn etc. And he has the pace, athleticism to cover the ground and get back in front of the defence if it breaks down. 

Edited by Scot1
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On 9/8/2021 at 10:39 PM, Texas Pete said:

Do you genuinely think Callum McGregor could hold down a starting place at Manchester United? 

Does that matter? Think back to the past. For example you could say could Willie Miller have held down a place at Liverpool at that time? That did not stop Miller being a far better option for us than Alan Hansen. There has been other similar instances too.

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8 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Does that matter? Think back to the past. For example you could say could Willie Miller have held down a place at Liverpool at that time? That did not stop Miller being a far better option for us than Alan Hansen. There has been other similar instances too.

No, it doesn’t matter. 

I was replying to someone who who thought Callum McGregor was a better player than Scott McTominay. 

Although the club someone plays for doesn’t necessarily prove how good they are it can be a good indication. McGregor would be nowhere near Man U’s starting 11 which would indicate that McTominay is a better player.

Does that mean that McTominay should automatically start ahead of McGregor for Scotland? Of course not. A lot more than individual ability has to be considered by Clarke when picking his team. Current form, fitness, suitability for formation/tactics, chemistry with other players etc. all need to be taken into account. 

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14 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

No, it doesn’t matter. 

I was replying to someone who who thought Callum McGregor was a better player than Scott McTominay. 

Although the club someone plays for doesn’t necessarily prove how good they are it can be a good indication. McGregor would be nowhere near Man U’s starting 11 which would indicate that McTominay is a better player.

Does that mean that McTominay should automatically start ahead of McGregor for Scotland? Of course not. A lot more than individual ability has to be considered by Clarke when picking his team. Current form, fitness, suitability for formation/tactics, chemistry with other players etc. all need to be taken into account. 

Yes I agree. Form swings and good performances for Scotland makes the decision making a lot of the time. At present McGregor has earned his place in midfield against Israel as he has performed well and is forming a promising partnership with Gilmour. McTominay, on the other hand, has missed the last three games so I cannot see him coming into midfield for us as Clarke prefers him in defence anyway and with Hanley out it is a slot waiting to be filled by McTominay.

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