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What would be acceptable?


ceudmilefailte

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35 minutes ago, AlfieMoon said:

I’ve not seen anything to suggest that McTominay is too good not to start but I do recognise that people seem to have that notion.
 

I think people get carried away because he plays for Man Utd but I don’t think he delivers consistently enough and is prone to errors. He may grow into a fine player as he matures but I think we have better options for now. 

Yeah, you're right, you shouldn't be picked based solely on the team you play for. I'm not saying Clarke does that, because he was picking the likes of Gallagher and Hanley playing in inferior leagues to Cooper, a premier league captain.

McTominay's biggest flaw is his inconsistency. At his best, he is one of the first names on the teamsheet. But he should by no means be unbenchable.

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9 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

Based on the Euros, McTominay is more likely to play in defence, but I see what you mean. 

Turnbull is more than capable of going to the premier league, or elsewhere, but at least 1 more stand out season with Celtic will do him no harm.


It’s about competition level.  The other guys are playing against the top players every week. Wouldn’t be so bad if Celtic were playing in the champions league.

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46 minutes ago, kumnio said:

After the gutless games against Austria and Israel last time, we need 6 points from these games to be in the running for second place. Anything less than this, and it’s goodnight Vienna. 

There were disappointing aspects of both of those games. Being gutless was not one of them. Scotland came from behind in both games.

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23 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

6 points is acceptable. If we are serious about qualifying we must get 6 points.

I would say 4 points is o.k. Two draws v Austria so they can't pull ahead and still have to play Denmark away and Israel twice and obviously winning a game you simply have to against bottom seed.

Can't see anything in Denmark at all, point there would be a magnificent result and arguably the best of Clarke's reign so far.

Would have the team on 9 points with just over half the games played and many teams have finished 2nd with 18 points in the past.

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1 minute ago, Tartan Chris said:

I would say 4 points is o.k. Two draws v Austria so they can't pull ahead and still have to play Denmark away and Israel twice and obviously winning a game you simply have to against bottom seed.

Can't see anything in Denmark at all, point there would be a magnificent result and arguably the best of Clarke's reign so far.

Would have the team on 9 points with just over half the games played and many teams have finished 2nd with 18 points in the past.

This is part of the problem, two draws isn't acceptable against the team we are competing with for 2nd place. We have to beat our rivals not just level with them. 

Why do we accept mediocrity? I said a while back that us fans are a huge part of the problem. We have accepted mediocrity for years, time we stopped.

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On 8/25/2021 at 6:56 PM, Toepoke said:

While disappointing, losing two away games against better teams would hardly be a sacking offence. 

 

This. People need to get real. Denmark showed in the Euros and in the WC qualification campaign so far that they are a significantly better side than we are - we're going to need a Wembley-esque performance in Copenhagen to get anything there.

Austria too are a slightly better side than us on paper and if the alleged rifts in their squad have healed (and their performances in the Euros suggest they just might) then it'll be a tough task in Vienna too.

Four points is doable but for me, the only truly unacceptable outcome would be to finish this round of games with fewer than three points. That isn't accepting mediocrity, it's just being realistic about the capabilities of this team relative to our opponents.

On 8/26/2021 at 10:06 AM, glasgow jock said:

I honestly think we underachieved at the Euros (also turned out we where in a much tougher group than perhaps thought), I think we have a decent squad, who quite clearly get on like a club side and buy into the managers plans.

We can be too cautious at times i'd say, but i'm not too concerned overall, we have the makings of a cracking starting 11 .

Where do you think we should have finished in the Euros?

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14 hours ago, breeks_mctavish said:

There were disappointing aspects of both of those games. Being gutless was not one of them. Scotland came from behind in both games.

Exactly. There are a few areas where our team is lacking (technique and ability being the main two) but guts isn't one of them.

A gutless team doesn't come from behind twice to draw a game; it doesn't lose a goal in the last minute of a play-off for its first major finals in decades but then go through extra time and win a penalty shootout.

I didn't agree with the way we went about things against Czech Republic and Croatia, playing route one football, but we still created chances and still kept trying, even when it was clear we had lost.  Not defending properly and not converting chances when they came, that's what did for us.

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7 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

This is part of the problem, two draws isn't acceptable against the team we are competing with for 2nd place. We have to beat our rivals not just level with them. 

Why do we accept mediocrity? I said a while back that us fans are a huge part of the problem. We have accepted mediocrity for years, time we stopped.

It wouldn't be the end of the world. A draw in Austria at start of campaign would be more than acceptable result and don't see why it changes six months on given they played well at Hampden despite missing some key players, got to last 16 of euros and gave Italy one of their hardest matches of the whole tournament.

They've still got Denmark away and got to play Israel away and they lost 3-1 there in nations league.

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2 hours ago, kumnio said:

Players might have guts, the manager certainly doesn’t. 

If people genuinely believe that draws against Austria and Israel give us a chance of qualifying, then they need to reassess where we are. 

Don't see why 2nd can't be achieved with those draws. Of course a typical Georgia style result v one of the weaker teams needs to be avoided but I was o.k with a point in Israel as it's not an easy match in last few years, certainly need to be beating them at Hampden though to have a proper chance at 2nd so that's a really big match when it comes around.

Ultimately Denmark are far and away the best team in the group. They might not strike fear like a Germany or France but they outperformed both those comfortably in the euros and smashed Russia and Wales without their best player. They've got already easy away wins in Austria and Israel so they will win this group comfortably and indeed may be in interests for that to happen given their last match is at Hampden so dead rubber for them would be beneficial.

I've more of an eye on making euro 2024 especially with it being in Germany so potential for huge travelling support. It's tough to qualify for world cups now, no excuse not to make the euros regularly though while this squad remains in place.

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Denmark (a) - I have low expectations of a positive result. Denmark are a level above us at the moment.  It is possible that we could get a draw (with a Wembley type performance) but more likely the Danes will win. Denmark could win all games in group.

Moldova (h) - I expect a relatively straightforward win. Moldova are poor from what I have seen. Hope for good performance and some goals, but really any win will do.

Austria (a) - the key game. Austria are favourites and will expect to win. They are higher in rankings, and had a better Euros than us. But their team is not significantly better than ours. If we set up correctly, play well in counter attack we could get a draw or win. A draw is a decent result and keeps us in contention for 2nd.

Losing to Austria would clearly be disappointing but not necessarily a disaster. We would be looking for favour from Israel and probably point(s) against Denmark at home too. 

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1st seeds Denmark, probably two defeats, might sneak a point
2nd seed Austria, drew at home, absolutely must avoid defeat away 
4th seed Israel, drew away, essential must win at home

Have we not learned anything from the last two decades? If you don’t beat teams above you, or take take maximum points from teams below you, you don’t qualify, it’s pretty much this simple, and more often than not you need to do both of these to qualify. 

The first three games most likely fucked us up, unless we can win in either Denmark or Austria. If we have played 6 games by the end of these games, and only have two wins to show from it, its an absolutely calamitous qualifying campaign. 

We have started slowly in so many groups and blew any chances that we had. This shite mentality that oh well drawing with Austria isn’t bad, and oh Israel is a hard place to go, let’s celebrate a point is killing our chances. 

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1 hour ago, Tartan Chris said:

Don't see why 2nd can't be achieved with those draws. Of course a typical Georgia style result v one of the weaker teams needs to be avoided but I was o.k with a point in Israel as it's not an easy match in last few years, certainly need to be beating them at Hampden though to have a proper chance at 2nd so that's a really big match when it comes around.

Ultimately Denmark are far and away the best team in the group. They might not strike fear like a Germany or France but they outperformed both those comfortably in the euros and smashed Russia and Wales without their best player. They've got already easy away wins in Austria and Israel so they will win this group comfortably and indeed may be in interests for that to happen given their last match is at Hampden so dead rubber for them would be beneficial.

I've more of an eye on making euro 2024 especially with it being in Germany so potential for huge travelling support. It's tough to qualify for world cups now, no excuse not to make the euros regularly though while this squad remains in place.

If we draw then we need Denmark and Israel to do us favours, we also need to win the other 4 games before the final game against Denmark. You mentioned a Georgia type result are Israel not the Geogia of this group?

Qualifying for world cups might not be easy but reaching the play offs is another matter.

Not finishing second in a group is failure no matter who the other teams are.

Missing out on the play offs when all you had to do was win in Slovakia or Israel is criminal. Putting out a weakened team in the first of those games was insanity.

There is no reason why we cant get a result in all the upcoming games, at the end of the day it's just 22 bits of meat kicking a ball in a grass field,

Clarke and the players will be thinking they can get results and I've lost enough money betting on football to know no team is guaranteed to win.

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On 8/27/2021 at 9:54 PM, ceudmilefailte said:

If we draw then we need Denmark and Israel to do us favours, we also need to win the other 4 games before the final game against Denmark. You mentioned a Georgia type result are Israel not the Geogia of this group?

Qualifying for world cups might not be easy but reaching the play offs is another matter.

Not finishing second in a group is failure no matter who the other teams are.

Missing out on the play offs when all you had to do was win in Slovakia or Israel is criminal. Putting out a weakened team in the first of those games was insanity.

There is no reason why we cant get a result in all the upcoming games, at the end of the day it's just 22 bits of meat kicking a ball in a grass field,

Clarke and the players will be thinking they can get results and I've lost enough money betting on football to know no team is guaranteed to win.

I believe it’s 1 win in 9 in 90 minutes which isn’t good , so there is nothing to suggest that is going to change suddenly .

my feelings are we get 4 points at the very best but fear only 3 and that would be the end of this .

we still look second best every time we play Israel as well , despite playing them goodness knows how many times 

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IMO if we're serious about getting at least the playoff spot by our own hands then the only thing that's acceptable is 7 points, minimum 6! 

4 points is probably being more realistic but then that means any chance of qualifying probably isn't.

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On 8/27/2021 at 9:18 PM, kumnio said:

1st seeds Denmark, probably two defeats, might sneak a point
2nd seed Austria, drew at home, absolutely must avoid defeat away 
4th seed Israel, drew away, essential must win at home

Have we not learned anything from the last two decades? If you don’t beat teams above you, or take take maximum points from teams below you, you don’t qualify, it’s pretty much this simple, and more often than not you need to do both of these to qualify. 

The first three games most likely fucked us up, unless we can win in either Denmark or Austria. If we have played 6 games by the end of these games, and only have two wins to show from it, its an absolutely calamitous qualifying campaign. 

We have started slowly in so many groups and blew any chances that we had. This shite mentality that oh well drawing with Austria isn’t bad, and oh Israel is a hard place to go, let’s celebrate a point is killing our chances. 

This

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On 8/27/2021 at 9:18 PM, kumnio said:

1st seeds Denmark, probably two defeats, might sneak a point
2nd seed Austria, drew at home, absolutely must avoid defeat away 
4th seed Israel, drew away, essential must win at home

Have we not learned anything from the last two decades? If you don’t beat teams above you, or take take maximum points from teams below you, you don’t qualify, it’s pretty much this simple, and more often than not you need to do both of these to qualify. 

The first three games most likely fucked us up, unless we can win in either Denmark or Austria. If we have played 6 games by the end of these games, and only have two wins to show from it, its an absolutely calamitous qualifying campaign. 

We have started slowly in so many groups and blew any chances that we had. This shite mentality that oh well drawing with Austria isn’t bad, and oh Israel is a hard place to go, let’s celebrate a point is killing our chances. 

Excellent post. 

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41 minutes ago, KirkieRobRoy said:

A point on Wed and a point next week, a win on Saturday is the best I can see. Happy clappers can slam me for 'negativity' if they like, but they have to show from recent games how we can possibly do better.

Negativity? I'd bite your hand off for that right now!

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