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Scottish players in action 21/22


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7 hours ago, ProudScot said:

I don’t believe he can make much or any difference.

Hes a very average player with an unbelievable agent seemingly.

He can destroy opponents with pace and power when he gets it together. It’s not impossible his consistency could be improved to the point it gets him back in our first team. 

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1 hour ago, er yir macaroon said:

He can destroy opponents with pace and power when he gets it together. It’s not impossible his consistency could be improved to the point it gets him back in our first team. 

I would never write off any Scottish player. There are far too many examples of guys that have become important internationalists relatively late in their careers to be dismissing anyone.

Specifically about Burke, if he can find a team to play every week in, at the very worst I think he could be a decent Kenny Miller clone. As was mentioned in another thread, Miller didn't have the same natural ability of other Scotland strikers, but he always worked his socks off and chased everything. If Burke modelled himself on Miller, he could be a valuable player for us. However, I actually think he still has the potential to live up to the hype. Ideally as a winger, but a back up  centre forward will also do.

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2 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

He can destroy opponents with pace and power when he gets it together. It’s not impossible his consistency could be improved to the point it gets him back in our first team. 

His pace and power is certainly frightening, it's his technical ability (or lack of) that holds him back.

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1 hour ago, scotlad said:

His pace and power is certainly frightening, it's his technical ability (or lack of) that holds him back.

Yeh for us he would be a huge asset if he could improve that. I've been pretty close to giving up on him. You've got to think this move is his last chance to make it as a top league level player. 

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I’ve been watching multiple videos of Burke. The one thing that stands out in a positive sense is he has a very assured first touch when he’s put through on goal - the actual shot not so much but that is a confidence thing. I’m not normally a fan of inverted wingers but he would do well coming off the left wing, or in our system, as a second striker lurking between the full back and centre half. He could also directly compete with Dykes.  

 

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2 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

I’ve been watching multiple videos of Burke. The one thing that stands out in a positive sense is he has a very assured first touch when he’s put through on goal - the actual shot not so much but that is a confidence thing. I’m not normally a fan of inverted wingers but he would do well coming off the left wing, or in our system, as a second striker lurking between the full back and centre half. He could also directly compete with Dykes.  

 

Good video and good points. I've always liked him as a player. Maybe his price tag maybe weighed a bit heavily on him at West Brom and Sheffield Utd (with fans and managers on his back) and it just didn't work out.  Saw a few games on tv when he played for Alaves and thought he looked pretty good. Hoping he'll do well at Werder Bremen.

Here are his 2 goals from their recent friendly against Karlsruher. (Looks like he's playing as one of the two frontmen in a 3-5-2):
 

 

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4 hours ago, mcguffin said:

Good video and good points. I've always liked him as a player. Maybe his price tag maybe weighed a bit heavily on him at West Brom and Sheffield Utd (with fans and managers on his back) and it just didn't work out.  Saw a few games on tv when he played for Alaves and thought he looked pretty good. Hoping he'll do well at Werder Bremen.

Here are his 2 goals from their recent friendly against Karlsruher. (Looks like he's playing as one of the two frontmen in a 3-5-2):
 

Unfortunately he just isn't good enough for the level he is playing. Despite his world class attributes in a couple of areas (pace, physique, athleticism), he doesn't have the all-round game to utilise those attributes. He's played in 3 of the 4 major leagues in Europe (EPL, La Liga and Bundesliga) and in the 96 games he has played he has scored 3 goals. Of the 32 of those he played as a striker he scored zero goals. At Championship level he has scored 8 in 47 - he is a poor quality championship level striker.

Best of luck to him and fingers crossed he unlocks something in his skillset to allow him to step up a level but at this point, 8 years after his debut, this seems unlikely.

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25 minutes ago, Scots_Wha_Hae said:

Unfortunately he just isn't good enough for the level he is playing. Despite his world class attributes in a couple of areas (pace, physique, athleticism), he doesn't have the all-round game to utilise those attributes. He's played in 3 of the 4 major leagues in Europe (EPL, La Liga and Bundesliga) and in the 96 games he has played he has scored 3 goals. Of the 32 of those he played as a striker he scored zero goals. At Championship level he has scored 8 in 47 - he is a poor quality championship level striker.

Best of luck to him and fingers crossed he unlocks something in his skillset to allow him to step up a level but at this point, 8 years after his debut, this seems unlikely.

Its unlikely but there is still a chance. I wouldnt play him as a striker. I think his ideal position would be as winger/forward in a front three. Obviously he would have to up his goal rate and his assiat rate to play that position regulary but if he can turn into a lower half bundesliga player then that would be a great turnaround in terms of his career which has been going slowly downhill since he signed for rb leipzig. 

 

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5 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Its unlikely but there is still a chance. I wouldnt play him as a striker. I think his ideal position would be as winger/forward in a front three. Obviously he would have to up his goal rate and his assiat rate to play that position regulary but if he can turn into a lower half bundesliga player then that would be a great turnaround in terms of his career which has been going slowly downhill since he signed for rb leipzig. 

 

I don't think he has the skill required for that position. I don't think he is a good crosser/passer of the ball so would be poor as an out and out winger and hopeless as an inside forward. Another poster said earlier on that he could play the Kenny Miller role which I definitely agree with - work unbelievably hard to chase down defenders to force mistakes and constantly play off the shoulder of the last defender to stretch the play. If he can do that, plus chip in with a half-decent number of goals (maybe 1 in 4 or thereabouts) then he can make it as a decent striker in a league outside the big 4.

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15 hours ago, Scots_Wha_Hae said:

I don't think he has the skill required for that position. I don't think he is a good crosser/passer of the ball so would be poor as an out and out winger and hopeless as an inside forward. Another poster said earlier on that he could play the Kenny Miller role which I definitely agree with - work unbelievably hard to chase down defenders to force mistakes and constantly play off the shoulder of the last defender to stretch the play. If he can do that, plus chip in with a half-decent number of goals (maybe 1 in 4 or thereabouts) then he can make it as a decent striker in a league outside the big 4.

That was me that said that, and I stand by it. If Burke was given 69 caps and modelled himself on Miller, then I'm sure he could chip in with the 18 goals that Miller did. 

I'm not saying Burke deserves to play ahead of Dykes or Adams. Far from it. He needs to prove himself again. But would I play a prime Kenny Miller ahead of those 2? Yes. 

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54 minutes ago, romanticscot said:

If Burke gets 4-6 goals in the first two months of the new season, we would be silly not to include him in the squad for the next nations league matches.

Has he scored 4-6 goals in the last 5 years? 

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I was devastated once I realised Burke was actually a terrible footballer. He pisses all over Scottish strikers re physicality/athleticism etc and probably most of Britain, but that’s it unfortunately 

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6 hours ago, ProudScot said:

Has he scored 4-6 goals in the last 5 years? 

Not even sure I need to both looking that up :)  If he were to, it would be a miracle.  

 

Well I looked it up, and he has only scored 19 professional goals his entire career (8 years) not including pre-season. 

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1 hour ago, romanticscot said:

Not even sure I need to both looking that up :)  If he were to, it would be a miracle.  

 

Well I looked it up, and he has only scored 19 professional goals his entire career (8 years) not including pre-season. 

Based on the data on TransferMarkt, it's 19 goals and 16 assists from 8,771 minutes of football; if he played every minute of a 38 game season, he would get 7 goals and 6 assists.

His record in the top flights of English, German and Spanish football is 3 goals and 7 assists from 3,664 minutes; not an amazing return, although - aside Leipzig - he was at relegation fodder sides.

As a comparison, his Big 5 top flight goal record (using the 38 game season figure) compares as:

  • Steven Fletcher - 13.7
  • John Spencer - 12.9
  • Kevin Gallacher - 10.8
  • Duncan Ferguson - 10.0
  • Paul Dickov - 9.0
  • Ché Adams - 8.6
  • James McFadden - 7.5
  • Steven Naismith - 7.1
  • Oli McBurnie - 6.3
  • Stuart Armstrong - 5.0
  • Ryan Fraser - 4.3
  • John McGinn - 3.4
  • Oli Burke - 2.8

For assists:

  • Andy Robertson - 8.6
  • Ryan Fraser - 8.1
  • Oli Burke - 6.5
  • Charlie Adam - 6.5
  • Matt Phillips - 6.5
  • Shaun Maloney - 6.3
  • Matt Richie - 6.2
  • John McGinn - 5.0
  • Ché Adams - 4.7
  • Stuart Armstrong - 4.0
  • Oli McBurnie - 1.8

Total goal involvements is about the same as Stuart Armstrong and ahead of John McGinn. Of course, that says nothing about how the player is being used, the system the team uses, he quality of players around them, etc.

It's a surprise how well he did in assists, however his record in the Championship is 12.4 and 3.1 respectively. Dykes has a slightly better goal return and a noticeably better assist score (12.5/5.0) over a 38 game season in the Championship (with a similar record for Scotland) - and he's played 840 minutes in the Championship since his last goal, with only one assist in that time.

Perhaps in the right system he could score goals, but I think Leipzig got rid of him because his tactical awareness was awful and it doesn't seem to have improved much since. If that could be improved, he'd be a very useful asset; otherwise, he'll be nothing more than someone to come off the bench to run at a tired defence for us.

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9 minutes ago, Clyde1998 said:

Based on the data on TransferMarkt, it's 19 goals and 16 assists from 8,771 minutes of football; if he played every minute of a 38 game season, he would get 7 goals and 6 assists.

His record in the top flights of English, German and Spanish football is 3 goals and 7 assists from 3,664 minutes; not an amazing return, although - aside Leipzig - he was at relegation fodder sides.

As a comparison, his Big 5 top flight goal record (using the 38 game season figure) compares as:

  • Steven Fletcher - 13.7
  • John Spencer - 12.9
  • Kevin Gallacher - 10.8
  • Duncan Ferguson - 10.0
  • Paul Dickov - 9.0
  • Ché Adams - 8.6
  • James McFadden - 7.5
  • Steven Naismith - 7.1
  • Oli McBurnie - 6.3
  • Stuart Armstrong - 5.0
  • Ryan Fraser - 4.3
  • John McGinn - 3.4
  • Oli Burke - 2.8

For assists:

  • Andy Robertson - 8.6
  • Ryan Fraser - 8.1
  • Oli Burke - 6.5
  • Charlie Adam - 6.5
  • Matt Phillips - 6.5
  • Shaun Maloney - 6.3
  • Matt Richie - 6.2
  • John McGinn - 5.0
  • Ché Adams - 4.7
  • Stuart Armstrong - 4.0
  • Oli McBurnie - 1.8

Total goal involvements is about the same as Stuart Armstrong and ahead of John McGinn. Of course, that says nothing about how the player is being used, the system the team uses, he quality of players around them, etc.

It's a surprise how well he did in assists, however his record in the Championship is 12.4 and 3.1 respectively. Dykes has a slightly better goal return and a noticeably better assist score (12.5/5.0) over a 38 game season in the Championship (with a similar record for Scotland) - and he's played 840 minutes in the Championship since his last goal, with only one assist in that time.

Perhaps in the right system he could score goals, but I think Leipzig got rid of him because his tactical awareness was awful and it doesn't seem to have improved much since. If that could be improved, he'd be a very useful asset; otherwise, he'll be nothing more than someone to come off the bench to run at a tired defence for us.

Lol thats some hardcore stat analysis. His stats actually arent as bad as i thought especially the assists.

Hes defo not a striker. I think a forward in a front three is his best bet or a winger if he could improve his crossing and tactical awareness.

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22 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

That was me that said that, and I stand by it. If Burke was given 69 caps and modelled himself on Miller, then I'm sure he could chip in with the 18 goals that Miller did. 

I'm not saying Burke deserves to play ahead of Dykes or Adams. Far from it. He needs to prove himself again. But would I play a prime Kenny Miller ahead of those 2? Yes. 

I like your thinking.

If Oliver Burke can find some form at his new club, I think Steve Clarke may well give him a second look.


Early days for Burke at Werner Bremen, but some encouraging comments from his new manager Ole Werner and team mate Marco Friedl (ex-Bayern and Austrian international) in this article:
https://www.werder.de/en/news/news/first-team/2022/2023/match-reaction-friendly-karlsruher-sc-03072022/

Fingers crossed for the guy.

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19 minutes ago, mcguffin said:

I like your thinking.

If Oliver Burke can find some form at his new club, I think Steve Clarke may well give him a second look.


Early days for Burke at Werner Bremen, but some encouraging comments from his new manager Ole Werner and team mate Marco Friedl (ex-Bayern and Austrian international) in this article:
https://www.werder.de/en/news/news/first-team/2022/2023/match-reaction-friendly-karlsruher-sc-03072022/

Fingers crossed for the guy.

I get the impression they are going to play him to his strengths, which has rarely happened in the last few years. If a team builds around him, he can still turn out to be a top internationalist. 

I won't give up on him. (Or anyone) He's only 25. The list of players that became important players for us after that age is endless. For example, Charlie Mulgrew didn't get his first cap until he was 26, and amassed 44 caps. Paul Hartley was 29, and ended up with 25 caps. 

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1 hour ago, mcguffin said:

I like your thinking.

If Oliver Burke can find some form at his new club, I think Steve Clarke may well give him a second look.


Early days for Burke at Werner Bremen, but some encouraging comments from his new manager Ole Werner and team mate Marco Friedl (ex-Bayern and Austrian international) in this article:
https://www.werder.de/en/news/news/first-team/2022/2023/match-reaction-friendly-karlsruher-sc-03072022/

Fingers crossed for the guy.

The fact that he’s made such a positive impression in training shows he does have ability. The problem he has is finding composure and confidence on the pitch. It’s certainly not guaranteed that he ever will on a consistent basis, but it’s not ability that’s the problem. I’m optimistic that an enthusiastic and insightful coach will sort his head out and help him realise his potential. 

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2 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

The fact that he’s made such a positive impression in training shows he does have ability. The problem he has is finding composure and confidence on the pitch. It’s certainly not guaranteed that he ever will on a consistent basis, but it’s not ability that’s the problem. I’m optimistic that an enthusiastic and insightful coach will sort his head out and help him realise his potential. 

Brendan Rodgers got him playing pretty well when he was on loan at Celtic. That all stopped when Neil Lennon took over.

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