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Scottish players in action 21/22


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In the modern day game defenders also need composure on the ball and ability to pass/carry the ball out of defence in order to build from the back. In days gone by the old hump it to safety was welcomed - not anymore. That is where I'd see the worth of McTominay. He has looked better passing from the back than he does in midfield so I have no problem him slotting into the back three.

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16 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

In the modern day game defenders also need composure on the ball and ability to pass/carry the ball out of defence in order to build from the back. In days gone by the old hump it to safety was welcomed - not anymore. That is where I'd see the worth of McTominay. He has looked better passing from the back than he does in midfield so I have no problem him slotting into the back three.

Exactly what good will his passing ability be when balls start getting whipped into the middle for their big striker?His positional awareness at the back is poor.Not his fault,he isn't a defender and unfortunately at times he gets caught out of position.Just don't see why we would play a player out of position in such a crucial game.

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Ryan Christie promoted with Bournemouth 👍

I really hope Nott'm Forest win the play offs and Scott McKenna can test himself at a higher level. Over the last twelve months he's also become a big hero to the Forest fans.

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52 minutes ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Ryan Christie promoted with Bournemouth 👍

I really hope Nott'm Forest win the play offs and Scott McKenna can test himself at a higher level. Over the last twelve months he's also become a big hero to the Forest fans.

 Can only be good for us. 

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7 hours ago, thesaint said:

Yes, that's the point i am making. They are better at defending. Surely our midfield has guys that are comfortable on the ball. Maybe my ideas are off the wall... but the first thing i look for in a defender is the ability to DEFEND. Crazy or what? 

And how do the midfielders get the ball if the defenders cant get it to them in dangerous positions?

Its easy to give the ball to McGinn when he drops deep and takes it in his own half. Its alot harder to get it to him when he makes a run off the back of a midfielder into space in front of their defence.

I presume you are against Tierney at LCB give he isnt a CB, is poor in the air in comparrison to a proper CB and has been caught out on several occasions leading to goals? McKenna for Tierney?

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4 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Andy Robertson in another Champions League Final - good news for him but bad news for us. He will play in the final on the 28th of May and three days later we have to hope he will have recovered enough to play in the Ukraine match.

Four days later really.  Normal recovery time. 

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Must admit, I had mixed emotions too when I heard Liverpool had made it to the final.  Great for Robbo, great for the country to have another Scot potentially playing in a major European final but bad that that final is due to be played just a few days before one of the national team's biggest games in decades.

At least the CL final is being played in Paris, so he won't have too far to travel.

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3 hours ago, saintsparky said:

It's not the CL final that worries me, it is the open top bus, and the piss up afterwards..

I would hope he would be professional enough to go straight from Paris to Scotland training. 

I think an open top bus event would have to be put on hold until after the international break as many of the Liverpool squad will go on international duty for Nations League matches. No point have an open top parade with half of the squad missing.

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7 hours ago, scotlad said:

Must admit, I had mixed emotions too when I heard Liverpool had made it to the final.  Great for Robbo, great for the country to have another Scot potentially playing in a major European final but bad that that final is due to be played just a few days before one of the national team's biggest games in decades.

At least the CL final is being played in Paris, so he won't have too far to travel.

Its not ideal but as you said its only paris hes travelling from. I think hes professional enough to lay off the partying and he will be at his sharpest and will be match fit considering hes had to prepare for a champions league final.

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On 5/4/2022 at 12:30 AM, Diamond Scot said:

And how do the midfielders get the ball if the defenders cant get it to them in dangerous positions?

Its easy to give the ball to McGinn when he drops deep and takes it in his own half. Its alot harder to get it to him when he makes a run off the back of a midfielder into space in front of their defence.

I presume you are against Tierney at LCB give he isnt a CB, is poor in the air in comparrison to a proper CB and has been caught out on several occasions leading to goals? McKenna for Tierney?

Surely Gilmour and McGregor pick the ball up ftom the defence and move it forward, just as they do for their clubs.I know our central defence aren't brilliant technically, but surely they can make a pass out of defence to Gilmour or McGregor?, They don't need to be Maradona to perform that task. 

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16 minutes ago, thesaint said:

Surely Gilmour and McGregor pick the ball up ftom the defence and move it forward, just as they do for their clubs.I know our central defence aren't brilliant technically, but surely they can make a pass out of defence to Gilmour or McGregor?, They don't need to be Maradona to perform that task. 

You're missing the point that's being made, either because you don't understand or you are trying not to understand 

 

Clarke had an issue with Robbo and Tierney around how to get the both in the starting line-up...he came up with this 3-5-2 type of formation that we currently play, which allowed both to cover for one another on the left hand side both defensively and offensively. On the right he didn't have that luxury, but he wanted McTominay in the side and believed that his defensive attributes were good enough but also his 'range' of passing was ultimately miles ahead of any of our real centre backs...he didn't just want him to give it to Gilmour, he wanted him to be able to ping it to Adams, slide rule it to McGinn and switch play to the left...with the best will in the world, Hendry, Souttar etc are a huge drop off in that regard.

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49 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

You're missing the point that's being made, either because you don't understand or you are trying not to understand 

 

Clarke had an issue with Robbo and Tierney around how to get the both in the starting line-up...he came up with this 3-5-2 type of formation that we currently play, which allowed both to cover for one another on the left hand side both defensively and offensively. On the right he didn't have that luxury, but he wanted McTominay in the side and believed that his defensive attributes were good enough but also his 'range' of passing was ultimately miles ahead of any of our real centre backs...he didn't just want him to give it to Gilmour, he wanted him to be able to ping it to Adams, slide rule it to McGinn and switch play to the left...with the best will in the world, Hendry, Souttar etc are a huge drop off in that regard.

There's also the fact that a defender who can run forward twenty yards with the ball before passing it creates space for his team mates. Having a midfielder track backwards to pick up the ball from his defenders makes the whole team slow to switch from defence into attack.

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52 minutes ago, 0Neils40yarder said:

You're missing the point that's being made, either because you don't understand or you are trying not to understand 

 

Clarke had an issue with Robbo and Tierney around how to get the both in the starting line-up...he came up with this 3-5-2 type of formation that we currently play, which allowed both to cover for one another on the left hand side both defensively and offensively. On the right he didn't have that luxury, but he wanted McTominay in the side and believed that his defensive attributes were good enough but also his 'range' of passing was ultimately miles ahead of any of our real centre backs...he didn't just want him to give it to Gilmour, he wanted him to be able to ping it to Adams, slide rule it to McGinn and switch play to the left...with the best will in the world, Hendry, Souttar etc are a huge drop off in that regard.

Suppose you pay your money and you take your choice. For me McTominays lack of defensive qualities outweigh his passing ability from defence. I'm sure plenty think different but i feel a bit uncomfortable when i see him playing there. 

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1 hour ago, thesaint said:

Surely Gilmour and McGregor pick the ball up ftom the defence and move it forward, just as they do for their clubs.I know our central defence aren't brilliant technically, but surely they can make a pass out of defence to Gilmour or McGregor?, They don't need to be Maradona to perform that task. 

The 2 posts above pretty much answer for me however seeing as you use Gilmour as an example his lack of impact at Norwich is an example of my point. 

He has to come deep and take it off the toes of the defenders at Norwich. More often than not his only options are giving it back to them or trying a worldie. Better passing out of defence means he collects it already in midfield, on the turn, in pockets of space etc. Better weight and direction of passing means he doesnt need to take a touch, he can have his head up and play 1st time.

Modern top level defenders need to be as comfortable on the ball as midfielders. More often than not if a team play with 3 at the back they have 1 John Terry type with 2 Rio Ferdinand types either side. Thats what we have with Tierney, Hanley, McTom.

3 Hanleys doesnt work.

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26 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

The 2 posts above pretty much answer for me however seeing as you use Gilmour as an example his lack of impact at Norwich is an example of my point. 

He has to come deep and take it off the toes of the defenders at Norwich. More often than not his only options are giving it back to them or trying a worldie. Better passing out of defence means he collects it already in midfield, on the turn, in pockets of space etc. Better weight and direction of passing means he doesnt need to take a touch, he can have his head up and play 1st time.

Modern top level defenders need to be as comfortable on the ball as midfielders. More often than not if a team play with 3 at the back they have 1 John Terry type with 2 Rio Ferdinand types either side. Thats what we have with Tierney, Hanley, McTom.

3 Hanleys doesnt work.

Modern top level defenders yes, but that's my point. McTominay isn't a defender. Rio Ferdinand could play but he could also defend well. Not convinced McTominay can do both. As i said, McTominay in midfield.. fine. At the back... No thanks. 

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2 hours ago, thesaint said:

Modern top level defenders yes, but that's my point. McTominay isn't a defender. Rio Ferdinand could play but he could also defend well. Not convinced McTominay can do both. As i said, McTominay in midfield.. fine. At the back... No thanks. 

You are missing my point. He is miles ahead of the alternatives in that part of the game and obviously Clarke thinks he isnt significantly behind in the defensive side so thats why he plays.

A similar analogy would be Oliver Giroud as a striker. Old school thinking was that a number 9 should score goals as their primary job. He rarely scores and yet does other things so well that he reguarly plays at the top level at club and international.

McTominay playing at RCB makes Scotland an all round better team. Thats all that matters until a defender comes along that can do better then nothing will change. If anything he should provide motivation for defenders to improve those elements of their own game.

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1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

You are missing my point. He is miles ahead of the alternatives in that part of the game and obviously Clarke thinks he isnt significantly behind in the defensive side so thats why he plays.

A similar analogy would be Oliver Giroud as a striker. Old school thinking was that a number 9 should score goals as their primary job. He rarely scores and yet does other things so well that he reguarly plays at the top level at club and international.

McTominay playing at RCB makes Scotland an all round better team. Thats all that matters until a defender comes along that can do better then nothing will change. If anything he should provide motivation for defenders to improve those elements of their own game.

Aye, but you are missing my point. It's his lack of defensive ability that worries me. If Clarke thinks he is good enough in his defensive ability then fair enough. He will live or die by his decision. Hope if he picks him that he has a great game and proves me wrong. After all we all want the same thing...Scotland to win. I just don't think he is comfortable at the back. I'm sure there are some that think the same, and plenty who don't. That's what makes for a good forum

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2 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Scott wright with an assist. Ryan jack also starting tonight. Rangers 2 nil up already. Rangers winning the europa would be some achievement considering the financial disparity in football these days.

Unbelievable from Rangers.

Wright was very good tonight.

Wright, Robertson & Jack all Scots eligible for the squad who will start in European finals this month, great stuff. 

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On 5/3/2022 at 8:30 PM, thesaint said:

Exactly what good will his passing ability be when balls start getting whipped into the middle for their big striker?His positional awareness at the back is poor.Not his fault,he isn't a defender and unfortunately at times he gets caught out of position.Just don't see why we would play a player out of position in such a crucial game.

You do realise that defenders of today need to have an ability to pass the ball out of defence don't you? The old days of the cultured hoof up the pitch to clear the lines have gone. McTominay does have that ability to link defence with midfield by passing the ball out of defence. I have been critical of him on here but that is only with the idea of shoe-horning him into midfield and upsetting the equilibrium that clearly exists with the McGregor/Gilmour/McGinn line-up that has served us so well.

I cannot think of any glaring errors by McTominay that has cost us goals when he has played in defence and he is playing at a higher level than McKenna and Hendry is not getting any football at present plus Tierney is out injured. Seems like a perfectly plausible solution playing him in the back three - if not there then McTominay should not start V Ukraine.

 

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1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

You do realise that defenders of today need to have an ability to pass the ball out of defence don't you? The old days of the cultured hoof up the pitch to clear the lines have gone. McTominay does have that ability to link defence with midfield by passing the ball out of defence. I have been critical of him on here but that is only with the idea of shoe-horning him into midfield and upsetting the equilibrium that clearly exists with the McGregor/Gilmour/McGinn line-up that has served us so well.

I cannot think of any glaring errors by McTominay that has cost us goals when he has played in defence and he is playing at a higher level than McKenna and Hendry is not getting any football at present plus Tierney is out injured. Seems like a perfectly plausible solution playing him in the back three - if not there then McTominay should not start V Ukraine.

 


there have been numerous times that Mctominay has been caught out of position, some of which have cost us goals.  The last minute equaliser by Serbia being one.

im with the Saint and would much prefer him in midfield and personally I would have him in there ahead of mcgregor. It’s a risk playing him in defence as he is not a defender.  It’s only because we don’t have any top quality centre half’s we play him there.  

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