Scottish players in action 21/22

[Tartan blood]

6 minutes ago, Scot1 said:

I’ve no problem with playing McKenna or even Cooper (if fit) in place of Tierney, it does however change the dynamic of how we operate down the left, neither McKenna or Cooper are going to play the role in a similar manner to Tierney and are more orthodox defenders. 

Agreed. If it is McKenna/Cooper in place of Tierney, we lose an attacking threat. In that case I'd be tempted to play an extra attacking midfielder, but that would upset the dynamics as well. This whole system really is built around and totally reliant on Tierney. 

[Guest Scot1]

3 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

Agreed. If it is McKenna/Cooper in place of Tierney, we lose an attacking threat. In that case I'd be tempted to play an extra attacking midfielder, but that would upset the dynamics as well. This whole system really is built around and totally reliant on Tierney. 

Our system is quite interesting because it’s balanced but not symmetrical. The left and right sides operate slightly differently but give a similar outcome. On the left we have Tierney / Robertson (both full backs) overlapping and covering each other, on the right we have Patterson as an attacking wing back while Hendry tends to sit as an orthodox Centre Half and cover behind Patterson. 
 

[ceudmilefailte]

9 minutes ago, Scot1 said:

I’d rather we played Hendry in the middle and Hanley on the right. If I remember correctly Ukraine usually play with a big/tall Centre Forward, I’d rather have a big/tall centre halve like Hendry up against him. 

Fair point, and it was in the middle of a back three that Hendry started to make a name for himself.

Looking at the stats Cooper does win more balls in the air than Hendry. I knew Cooper was good in the air so was surprised to find out he was that how much smaller than Hendry he is.

[Guest Scot1]

6 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Fair point, and it was in the middle of a back three that Hendry started to make a name for himself.

Looking at the stats Cooper does win more balls in the air than Hendry. I knew Cooper was good in the air so was surprised to find out he was that how much smaller than Hendry he is.

If Cooper is fit, and Tierney isn’t available, I’d probably go with Cooper ahead of McKenna on the left side of the back 3, Hendry central, Hanley on the right. 
I was thinking about Kingsley of Hearts as a replacement for Tierney but it’s probably not the right game to introduce him to international football.

  Cooper Hendry. Hanley

looks solid defensively, just means we can’t expect much offensively from the back line, in terms of building up play and deliveries into the box. 

[scotlad]

16 hours ago, DAVIDB46 said:

Cooper is utter mince in a very poor side 

Before yesterday Leeds had conceded only once in their previous three games, all with Cooper in the side. Yesterday, without him, they conceded four - at home. That can't be a complete coincidence.

[ErsatzThistle]

1 hour ago, scotlad said:

Before yesterday Leeds had conceded only once in their previous three games, all with Cooper in the side. Yesterday, without him, they conceded four - at home. That can't be a complete coincidence.

Excellent point.

The Leeds's manager was saying last night that he expects Cooper to be back for their next fixture, it was just a minor knee injury.

4 hours ago, Scot1 said:

If Cooper is fit, and Tierney isn’t available, I’d probably go with Cooper ahead of McKenna on the left side of the back 3, Hendry central, Hanley on the right. 
I was thinking about Kingsley of Hearts as a replacement for Tierney but it’s probably not the right game to introduce him to international football.

  Cooper Hendry. Hanley

looks solid defensively, just means we can’t expect much offensively from the back line, in terms of building up play and deliveries into the box. 

Hendry has fallen out of favour at Brugge since the new year. The last game he played for them was back on April 4th and that was as a late substitute.

Our defenders need to be playing regular football.

[bigfingers]

Looks like Mckenna is now first pick with KT being out and Hendry not playing.

[ceudmilefailte]

12 minutes ago, bigfingers said:

Looks like Mckenna is now first pick with KT being out and Hendry not playing.

So which one of McTominay, Hanley or Cooper is he ahead of?

[broraboy]

24 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

So which one of McTominay, Hanley or Cooper is he ahead of?

McTominay isn’t a Centre Half and although he has played there, it was due to lack of cover! 
I’d play McKenna before McTomminay as a Centre Half, as good as McTominay is - he is lacking on aerial presence within the box on crosses and set pieces

[Diamond Scot]

44 minutes ago, broraboy said:

McTominay isn’t a Centre Half and although he has played there, it was due to lack of cover! 
I’d play McKenna before McTomminay as a Centre Half, as good as McTominay is - he is lacking on aerial presence within the box on crosses and set pieces

Im pretty sure McKenna has been available and in the squad for the vast majority of the games that McTominay has played in defence.

McTominay isnt a defender but when he is played in defence his gives us things that no other defender can do. Thats his composure, passing out from the back and ability to drive into midfield with the ball. Hendry can do some of those things but just nowhere near aswell.

Likewise Tierney offers things that no other defender can do. Thats his ability to attack, overlap Robertson etc.

This is a vital part of making our formation work. We defo lose some defensive stability however Clarke obviously thinks thats worth the risk.

[ProudScot]

1 hour ago, bigfingers said:

Looks like Mckenna is now first pick with KT being out and Hendry not playing.

Don’t think so 

[breeks_mctavish]

McTominay was already very likely to play in the back 3 as Clarke has nearly always picked him there for big games. With Tierney probably out, McTominay is probably even more likely to play so that we have at least one player as assured at stepping out with the ball from the back 3. 
it has become an important feature of how Clarke’s Scotland plays. 

My money is on Cooper - Hanley - McTominay

 

[thesaint]

3 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Im pretty sure McKenna has been available and in the squad for the vast majority of the games that McTominay has played in defence.

McTominay isnt a defender but when he is played in defence his gives us things that no other defender can do. Thats his composure, passing out from the back and ability to drive into midfield with the ball. Hendry can do some of those things but just nowhere near aswell.

Likewise Tierney offers things that no other defender can do. Thats his ability to attack, overlap Robertson etc.

This is a vital part of making our formation work. We defo lose some defensive stability however Clarke obviously thinks thats worth the risk.

Keep McTominay as far away from our defence as possible. Quite like him, but not at the back.Not a natural defender and is poor at defending crosses, and also numerous times when playing at the back gets caught in posession when trying to bring the ball out of defence. He may be a better player than most of our others at the back but he definately isnt a better DEFENDER than any of them. Recipe for disaster there i'm afraid. 

[HighlandScot]

Regarding McTominay I thoroughly agree with TheSaint, and could not have expressed better.

[HighlandScot]

A player I have always liked is Tom Cairney who has a couple of caps and last played in 2018. This season he has mostly been injured but is back playing as captain of Fulham. He has a tremendous left foot and today scored Fulham's 100th goal of the campaign with a "thunderous first half strike". I hope he has not completely fallen off Clark's radar. Turnbull is another good midfielder with record of scoring from distance and likely to be in the playoffs squad, but on current form I would pick Cairney over Turnbull.

[ErsatzThistle]

14 minutes ago, HighlandScot said:

A player I have always liked is Tom Cairney who has a couple of caps and last played in 2018. This season he has mostly been injured but is back playing as captain of Fulham. He has a tremendous left foot and today scored Fulham's 100th goal of the campaign with a "thunderous first half strike". I hope he has not completely fallen off Clark's radar. Turnbull is another good midfielder with record of scoring from distance and likely to be in the playoffs squad, but on current form I would pick Cairney over Turnbull.

We have more than enough midfielders available. There is no need to call up Cairney.

[Diamond Scot]

5 hours ago, thesaint said:

Keep McTominay as far away from our defence as possible. Quite like him, but not at the back.Not a natural defender and is poor at defending crosses, and also numerous times when playing at the back gets caught in posession when trying to bring the ball out of defence. He may be a better player than most of our others at the back but he definately isnt a better DEFENDER than any of them. Recipe for disaster there i'm afraid. 

Why does Clarke keep playing him there then? 

Playing from the back, being comfortable and brave on the ball is so important at international level.

People keep talking about how bad a defender McTominay is yet I cant think of any goals that he has directly contributed too. (The serbia goal is the obvious one but that was a corner so wouldnt have mattered if he was playing CB or CM.) Tierney who is regarded as and is a very good defender has been involved in a few. 

McTominay along with Tierney have been a big part of making the 532 formation work. When we have tried it in the past with 3 typical CBs we have been poor in possession. Look uncomfortable on the ball and more ofteb than not had to go long which made it very hard for our midfield and forward players to perform. You need to look at the team as a whole rather than singling out 1 player and saying a better defender makes us better. Until somebody comes along who can offer what McTominay can and is better at defending I suspect we will continue to see him play there.

[mccaughey85]

3 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Why does Clarke keep playing him there then? 

Playing from the back, being comfortable and brave on the ball is so important at international level.

People keep talking about how bad a defender McTominay is yet I cant think of any goals that he has directly contributed too. (The serbia goal is the obvious one but that was a corner so wouldnt have mattered if he was playing CB or CM.) Tierney who is regarded as and is a very good defender has been involved in a few. 

McTominay along with Tierney have been a big part of making the 532 formation work. When we have tried it in the past with 3 typical CBs we have been poor in possession. Look uncomfortable on the ball and more ofteb than not had to go long which made it very hard for our midfield and forward players to perform. You need to look at the team as a whole rather than singling out 1 player and saying a better defender makes us better. Until somebody comes along who can offer what McTominay can and is better at defending I suspect we will continue to see him play there.

I wouldnt even say the serbia goal was necessarily his fault. Where was our other centre backs challenging the serbian striker for the goal. Personally i think hes been fairly decent at centre back, he hasnt really let us down there although i think i personally would go with hendry or mckenna in the defence for this upcoming ukraine game but saying that clarke seems to like mctominay at centre back, probably due to his ability to carry the ball out from the back.

[gaz7]

12 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Why does Clarke keep playing him there then? 

Playing from the back, being comfortable and brave on the ball is so important at international level.

People keep talking about how bad a defender McTominay is yet I cant think of any goals that he has directly contributed too. (The serbia goal is the obvious one but that was a corner so wouldnt have mattered if he was playing CB or CM.) Tierney who is regarded as and is a very good defender has been involved in a few. 

McTominay along with Tierney have been a big part of making the 532 formation work. When we have tried it in the past with 3 typical CBs we have been poor in possession. Look uncomfortable on the ball and more ofteb than not had to go long which made it very hard for our midfield and forward players to perform. You need to look at the team as a whole rather than singling out 1 player and saying a better defender makes us better. Until somebody comes along who can offer what McTominay can and is better at defending I suspect we will continue to see him play there.

Great post and why I totally agree that mctominay at rcb is best option like clarke. If we have 3 "defenders" in our back line who are not as confident on ball then the park becomes smaller and all we do is punt it long play for 2nd balls etc which again is not how we play now.

Gilmour and mcgregor and mcginn are all talented players who operate at their best on the ball and they can only do this through good build up play from our back line.

Hanley hendry cooper back line would not be comfortable enough on ball getting it from keeper and if ukraine pressed them then problems would arise. 

As the old saying goes if you have the ball then the opposition cant score.

[thesaint]

13 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Why does Clarke keep playing him there then? 

Playing from the back, being comfortable and brave on the ball is so important at international level.

People keep talking about how bad a defender McTominay is yet I cant think of any goals that he has directly contributed too. (The serbia goal is the obvious one but that was a corner so wouldnt have mattered if he was playing CB or CM.) Tierney who is regarded as and is a very good defender has been involved in a few. 

McTominay along with Tierney have been a big part of making the 532 formation work. When we have tried it in the past with 3 typical CBs we have been poor in possession. Look uncomfortable on the ball and more ofteb than not had to go long which made it very hard for our midfield and forward players to perform. You need to look at the team as a whole rather than singling out 1 player and saying a better defender makes us better. Until somebody comes along who can offer what McTominay can and is better at defending I suspect we will continue to see him play there.

Sorry, but if anybody thinks McTominey is comfortable at the back then they must have been watching different games than me. He shouldn't be anywhere near our defence. As for Clarke playing him. You might notice he keeps playing O'Donnell as well. (Who according to plenty of people on this forum is crap... i personally think he hasn't let us down,but plenty don't rate him. So in the case of McTominay he must be doing well because Clarke picks him, but when Clarke keeps playing O'Donnell suddenly his judgement is in question. Can't have it both ways. You make a big issue of the fact that if Clarke plays him then he must be the right choice.. well he plays O'Donnell as well. 

[ProudScot]

1 hour ago, thesaint said:

Sorry, but if anybody thinks McTominey is comfortable at the back then they must have been watching different games than me. He shouldn't be anywhere near our defence. As for Clarke playing him. You might notice he keeps playing O'Donnell as well. (Who according to plenty of people on this forum is crap... i personally think he hasn't let us down,but plenty don't rate him. So in the case of McTominay he must be doing well because Clarke picks him, but when Clarke keeps playing O'Donnell suddenly his judgement is in question. Can't have it both ways. You make a big issue of the fact that if Clarke plays him then he must be the right choice.. well he plays O'Donnell as well. 

Are you having a laugh? 😂

McTominay is possibly our best passer and pretty important to how we play in terms of the 3 at the back allowing the right and left centre back to come into our attacks. 

He also has played over 100 matches in the EPL for a very good club & in the champions league. 

O’Donnell is O’Donnell. 

[thesaint]

12 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Are you having a laugh? 😂

McTominay is possibly our best passer and pretty important to how we play in terms of the 3 at the back allowing the right and left centre back to come into our attacks. 

He also has played over 100 matches in the EPL for a very good club & in the champions league. 

O’Donnell is O’Donnell. 

 Nothing to laugh about at the thought of McTominay at the back. As i said i quite like him, but in midfield. Never a defender. Man Utd are a good club, but certainly not a good team at the moment. Anyway, he plays in midfield for them. 

[mccaughey85]

2 hours ago, thesaint said:

Sorry, but if anybody thinks McTominey is comfortable at the back then they must have been watching different games than me. He shouldn't be anywhere near our defence. As for Clarke playing him. You might notice he keeps playing O'Donnell as well. (Who according to plenty of people on this forum is crap... i personally think he hasn't let us down,but plenty don't rate him. So in the case of McTominay he must be doing well because Clarke picks him, but when Clarke keeps playing O'Donnell suddenly his judgement is in question. Can't have it both ways. You make a big issue of the fact that if Clarke plays him then he must be the right choice.. well he plays O'Donnell as well. 

What games has he played poorly?

[Diamond Scot]

3 hours ago, thesaint said:

Sorry, but if anybody thinks McTominey is comfortable at the back then they must have been watching different games than me. He shouldn't be anywhere near our defence. As for Clarke playing him. You might notice he keeps playing O'Donnell as well. (Who according to plenty of people on this forum is crap... i personally think he hasn't let us down,but plenty don't rate him. So in the case of McTominay he must be doing well because Clarke picks him, but when Clarke keeps playing O'Donnell suddenly his judgement is in question. Can't have it both ways. You make a big issue of the fact that if Clarke plays him then he must be the right choice.. well he plays O'Donnell as well. 

Well im not one of the ones who is overly critical of Odonnell so your pount isnt really valid with me.

Odonnell is solid but with limitations.

In the same way McTominay has limitations in being a RCB. He isnt as comfortable defending as a natural CB. As such there will be times in the game where he is caught out of position or makes the wrong choice that perhaps a more natural CB wouldnt however see my comments above about Tierney as he is exactly the same.

What McTominay and Tierney give that more natural CBs dont is obviously more important to Clarke.

Do you believe that Cooper, McKenna or Hanley are better passers than McTom? Or have better control? Or are better at traveling with the ball?  If you do then thats your opinion however I would respectfully disagree and would guess you would be in the minority.

If you think they are better at heading, blocking, marking and tackling then id agree. Theres an argument to say thats what you want from all 3 CBs however I dont think Clarke regards it as being as important in our current formation. The thinking maybe being that having an extra man at the back makes up for some of the failings in Tierney and McTom but the benefits of them are worth it.

[thesaint]

41 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Well im not one of the ones who is overly critical of Odonnell so your pount isnt really valid with me.

Odonnell is solid but with limitations.

In the same way McTominay has limitations in being a RCB. He isnt as comfortable defending as a natural CB. As such there will be times in the game where he is caught out of position or makes the wrong choice that perhaps a more natural CB wouldnt however see my comments above about Tierney as he is exactly the same.

What McTominay and Tierney give that more natural CBs dont is obviously more important to Clarke.

Do you believe that Cooper, McKenna or Hanley are better passers than McTom? Or have better control? Or are better at traveling with the ball?  If you do then thats your opinion however I would respectfully disagree and would guess you would be in the minority.

If you think they are better at heading, blocking, marking and tackling then id agree. Theres an argument to say thats what you want from all 3 CBs however I dont think Clarke regards it as being as important in our current formation. The thinking maybe being that having an extra man at the back makes up for some of the failings in Tierney and McTom but the benefits of them are 

Yes, that's the point i am making. They are better at defending. Surely our midfield has guys that are comfortable on the ball. Maybe my ideas are off the wall... but the first thing i look for in a defender is the ability to DEFEND. Crazy or what?