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Scottish players in action 21/22


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14 minutes ago, romanticscot said:

Just wanted to give a shout out to Lyndon Dykes who chose us over playing for Australia. He could/would have been have been in Qatar playing in the second round of the World Cup today. 

Fair play to big Lyndon, hopefully one day he can get a chance to show what he can do in a major final.

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4 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

I doubt he will care when he wins the 2026 world cup with scotland.

🤣 I like a positive thinker 👍

 As for Harry I'm sure i posted on here at the time that i felt the sfa scouting team or Scott Gemmill really let us down by not selecting him for the under 21 squad while he was playing first team football in England. 

   I think he said at the time that his reason for accepting the Australian approach was due to the lack of interest in him from Scotland. Ok as Scotlad says he could have waited a couple of years more but maybe after a chat with his Australian mum he thought he would make her & his grandparents very proud so excepted. 

 If he only had Aussie grandparents & quit us so young I would think he is a bit of a ass & wouldn't wish him well with his career but in this case i prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt & wish him all the best in what will probably be quite a successful epl level career.  

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4 hours ago, theabsentee said:

🤣 I like a positive thinker 👍

 As for Harry I'm sure i posted on here at the time that i felt the sfa scouting team or Scott Gemmill really let us down by not selecting him for the under 21 squad while he was playing first team football in England. 

   I think he said at the time that his reason for accepting the Australian approach was due to the lack of interest in him from Scotland. Ok as Scotlad says he could have waited a couple of years more but maybe after a chat with his Australian mum he thought he would make her & his grandparents very proud so excepted. 

 If he only had Aussie grandparents & quit us so young I would think he is a bit of a ass & wouldn't wish him well with his career but in this case i prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt & wish him all the best in what will probably be quite a successful epl level career.  

Pretty much what his dad was reported as saying. There must be a lot of footballers who are 50/50 when it comes to international representation. I just wish people at the SFA would be a bit more proactive in making Scotland the number one choice of promising players. Maybe I'm being unfair but sometimes they don't give that impression.

 

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1 hour ago, Hertsscot said:

Pretty much what his dad was reported as saying. There must be a lot of footballers who are 50/50 when it comes to international representation. I just wish people at the SFA would be a bit more proactive in making Scotland the number one choice of promising players. Maybe I'm being unfair but sometimes they don't give that impression.

 

It’s hard to know what conversations take place, but the youth team managers (I wouldn’t go as far as saying the SFA) do have history for not showing enough interest in some players. McGeady and McCarthy both claimed as much, Rocco Vata may currently be the same. If guys like Darren Fletcher or David Weir’s sons are turning out for England youth teams then it says to me not much is being done. How much would a few phone calls a year, maybe travel down to watch them, send them a strip with their name on it etc. really cost? Not much IMO.

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The bit that's weird for me on Souttar is they must surely have known he was available for Australia given John's registration?

To cut them a bit of slack though when he got called up by Australia he was on loan at Fleetwood originally in the fourth tier. He hadn't been a first team regular at Stoke that long before injury and had previously been behind Nathan Collins in the pecking order.

He has kicked on loads but has been lucky too fashion changed to three at the back.

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1 hour ago, ThistleWhistle said:

The bit that's weird for me on Souttar is they must surely have known he was available for Australia given John's registration?

To cut them a bit of slack though when he got called up by Australia he was on loan at Fleetwood originally in the fourth tier. He hadn't been a first team regular at Stoke that long before injury and had previously been behind Nathan Collins in the pecking order.

He has kicked on loads but has been lucky too fashion changed to three at the back.

Fleetwood were in 3rd tier and he was a regular and playing well by all accounts. At the time I think Gemmill was picking the likes of George Johnstone (Liverpool under 23s), Daniel Harvie MK Dons as well as other players not getting first team football. Said it at the time but it was scandalous that he was not picked 

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5 hours ago, Scots_Wha_Hae said:

It’s hard to know what conversations take place, but the youth team managers (I wouldn’t go as far as saying the SFA) do have history for not showing enough interest in some players. McGeady and McCarthy both claimed as much, Rocco Vata may currently be the same. If guys like Darren Fletcher or David Weir’s sons are turning out for England youth teams then it says to me not much is being done. How much would a few phone calls a year, maybe travel down to watch them, send them a strip with their name on it etc. really cost? Not much IMO.

That's why McLeish impressed me with McTominay. As I say I've got no idea what really goes on but you'd think a smaller nation like ourselves would be making every effort to get people to play for us.

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3 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

Not picking a 6ft 6in centre half with excellent technique is criminal. For me there was a question mark over pace but by all accounts that is not a problem. I’ve yet to watch any of the WC. 

Exactly, his older smaller brother has excellent technique so why on earth where the sfa/Gemmill not monitoring him & making him feel wanted as its not rocket science to think the Harry would have similar levels of ability. 

  Think we can all agree the Sfa/Gemmill  simply aren't doing enough to make our eligible young players feel wanted. 

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Ah yeah you’re right mate – he went there when they were squeaky bum on relegation rather than getting them up from the fourth tier. 

 

Genuinely though he wasn’t going to make it at Stoke and they very nearly accepted an offer of peanuts from Fleetwood rather than loan him a second time.  However, he was mint at Fleetwood, Stoke went to a back three and Collins, who was seen as having way more potential, got sold to Burnley whereby Souttar continued to kick on. 

 

Hindsight is obviously going to be unkind given he’s played so well in a World Cup but teams going to 3 at the back has helped him find his feet massively.  He basically went from being on the fringes to our best player in the space of a few weeks. 

 

In our current side it is frustrating though as he would make us better without a doubt. 

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1 hour ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Ah yeah you’re right mate – he went there when they were squeaky bum on relegation rather than getting them up from the fourth tier. 

 

Genuinely though he wasn’t going to make it at Stoke and they very nearly accepted an offer of peanuts from Fleetwood rather than loan him a second time.  However, he was mint at Fleetwood, Stoke went to a back three and Collins, who was seen as having way more potential, got sold to Burnley whereby Souttar continued to kick on. 

 

Hindsight is obviously going to be unkind given he’s played so well in a World Cup but teams going to 3 at the back has helped him find his feet massively.  He basically went from being on the fringes to our best player in the space of a few weeks. 

 

In our current side it is frustrating though as he would make us better without a doubt. 

 I'm not sure your right in saying Collins was seen as having way more potential. In the summer of 2021 they where both linked with a move to Burnley as potential replacements for Tarkowski but in end Burnley went for Collins, whether that choice was made on ability or the transfer fee nobody knows but what i do know I've a friend who is a Stoke fan & he has literally just told me that the fans rate Souttar higher than Collins.

  The point is he shouldn't have been on the fringes of our under 21 squad when others arguably less worthy seemed to be regulars. 

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3 hours ago, theabsentee said:

 I'm not sure your right in saying Collins was seen as having way more potential. In the summer of 2021 they where both linked with a move to Burnley as potential replacements for Tarkowski but in end Burnley went for Collins, whether that choice was made on ability or the transfer fee nobody knows but what i do know I've a friend who is a Stoke fan & he has literally just told me that the fans rate Souttar higher than Collins.

  The point is he shouldn't have been on the fringes of our under 21 squad when others arguably less worthy seemed to be regulars. 

Honestly mate I'm a Stoke fan and on the Oatcake loads - Fletcher wanted to take Collins to Man U and he was the one who was getting more 1st team exposure rather than being loaned out.  We did play 4 at the back at that point and Collins was more mobile.  

20/20 hindsight and moving to 3 at the back Souttar looks a better prospect although he is a bit older.  Genuinely it was only once he broke into the first team and cemented himself as first name on the team sheet that folk considered him better than Collins in the main.  

It is a fuck up really not getting him involved - just think it wasn't as clear cut at the time.  

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22 hours ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Honestly mate I'm a Stoke fan and on the Oatcake loads - Fletcher wanted to take Collins to Man U and he was the one who was getting more 1st team exposure rather than being loaned out.  We did play 4 at the back at that point and Collins was more mobile.  

20/20 hindsight and moving to 3 at the back Souttar looks a better prospect although he is a bit older.  Genuinely it was only once he broke into the first team and cemented himself as first name on the team sheet that folk considered him better than Collins in the main.  

It is a fuck up really not getting him involved - just think it wasn't as clear cut at the time.  

Okay fair enough mate, didn't realise your a Stoke fan 👍 Actually thought they where both roughly the same age but just checked & saw Collins is still only 21 & has quite a bit of epl experience. Probably the pair of them going to be epl regulars in years to come. 

    As for Harry a few of us on here where asking at the time why he wasn't being selected. If we thought he had the potential why the fck did the people getting paid to know that not! I'll always blame them as he isn't the first & sadly probably won't be the last.

  It's done though so time to move on. 

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On 12/4/2022 at 8:44 AM, Hertsscot said:

Pretty much what his dad was reported as saying. There must be a lot of footballers who are 50/50 when it comes to international representation. I just wish people at the SFA would be a bit more proactive in making Scotland the number one choice of promising players. Maybe I'm being unfair but sometimes they don't give that impression.

 

I don't think that is the case anymore.  Look through the age-group squads and there are plenty of players who might otherwise have gone undetected; the likes of Elliot Anderson, Harrison Ashby, Lewis Fiorini, Hayden Hackney and Fraser Hornby spring to mind.

If there is a fault here I would say it is more likely to lie with the current manager of the senior team, who appears slightly reluctant to call up youngsters into the squad.  I can understand the logic - he wants to keep a settled side and sustain a "club" mentality - but there's nae harm in including a promising youngster or two now and again, especially if the U21s don't have a competitive game.  Strachan was quite good in that respect and managed to unearth John McGinn.

On 12/4/2022 at 12:20 PM, GHfaeGTA said:

Fleetwood were in 3rd tier and he was a regular and playing well by all accounts. At the time I think Gemmill was picking the likes of George Johnstone (Liverpool under 23s), Daniel Harvie MK Dons as well as other players not getting first team football. Said it at the time but it was scandalous that he was not picked 

At the time the U21 CBs were David Bates, who was playing first team football for Hamburg, and Ryan Porteous, who was a regular for Hibs.  George Johnstone was in the squad too.  Bates is now playing in Belgium, Johnston is playing for Bolton and Porteous is apparently being courted by those giants of world football Luton Town and Sheffield Wednesday; but hindsight is a wonderful thing.  At that time Souttar was still playing for Stoke's U23 side (his loan move to Fleetwood only happened a couple of months before he was called up to play for Australia's U23 side, which suggests he had been considering it for a while) and the bulk of his first team experience had come via a brief loan spell at Ross County.

Now, I suppose you could say that Stoke City, who were an EPL club at the time, going out of their way to sign the boy should have been a big clue as to his ability, but George Johnston was playing at the same level for Liverpool at the time and with all due respect to Stoke, Liverpool U23s is a bit more prestigious.

Another thing to consider: what if he had been selected for the squad but not picked to play - who's to say he wouldn't have taken umbrage at that and still flounced off to Australia?  You can't cap everyone just on the off-chance they might take the huff and decide to play for someone else.

On 12/4/2022 at 10:14 AM, Scots_Wha_Hae said:

It’s hard to know what conversations take place, but the youth team managers (I wouldn’t go as far as saying the SFA) do have history for not showing enough interest in some players. McGeady and McCarthy both claimed as much, Rocco Vata may currently be the same. If guys like Darren Fletcher or David Weir’s sons are turning out for England youth teams then it says to me not much is being done. How much would a few phone calls a year, maybe travel down to watch them, send them a strip with their name on it etc. really cost? Not much IMO.

According to Vata's da, he has, or had, been contacted by the SFA (I think Vata Snr. was more annoyed that the Albanian FA hadn't been in touch).

As for Fletcher and Weir, both their boys have youth caps for Scotland.

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5 hours ago, scotlad said:

there is a fault here I would say it is more likely to lie with the current manager of the senior team, who appears slightly reluctant to call up youngsters into the squad.  I can understand the logic - he wants to keep a settled side and sustain a "club" mentality - but there's nae harm in including a promising youngster or two now and again, especially if the U21s don't have a competitive game.  Strachan was quite good in that respect and managed to unearth John McGinn.

Clarke has been the best manager for introducing youth in about the last 30 years.

He has brought in Patterson, Hickey, Ralston, Porteous, Ferguson and Gilmour off the top of my head. 

The likes of Gilmour, Patterson and Hickey have all been brought in and given starting places when there were options to keep them on the bench.

Clarke is trying to create a club like squad and make caps something that are earned. He is managing to do this whilst still bringing in youth. People forget that international managers get a limited window to get their tactics over. Swapping and changing players all the time is self defeating.

That being said I think theres a few players that are approaching the end of their cycles but again Clarke has timed most of these guys perfectly.

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1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

Clarke has been the best manager for introducing youth in about the last 30 years.

He has brought in Patterson, Hickey, Ralston, Porteous, Ferguson and Gilmour off the top of my head. 

The likes of Gilmour, Patterson and Hickey have all been brought in and given starting places when there were options to keep them on the bench.

Clarke is trying to create a club like squad and make caps something that are earned. He is managing to do this whilst still bringing in youth. People forget that international managers get a limited window to get their tactics over. Swapping and changing players all the time is self defeating.

That being said I think theres a few players that are approaching the end of their cycles but again Clarke has timed most of these guys perfectly.

Well said. Consistency of selection is what Clarke has brought us; even if someone is slightly off form he picks him to keep continuity. Southgate has done the same to great effect. if Harry Maguire had been Scottish folk on here would have had him binned ages ago.

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13 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Clarke has been the best manager for introducing youth in about the last 30 years.

He has brought in Patterson, Hickey, Ralston, Porteous, Ferguson and Gilmour off the top of my head. 

The likes of Gilmour, Patterson and Hickey have all been brought in and given starting places when there were options to keep them on the bench.

Clarke is trying to create a club like squad and make caps something that are earned. He is managing to do this whilst still bringing in youth. People forget that international managers get a limited window to get their tactics over. Swapping and changing players all the time is self defeating.

That being said I think theres a few players that are approaching the end of their cycles but again Clarke has timed most of these guys perfectly.

I think the caveat is we have a much better crop of players who are young who any manager would pick?

The reluctance to try things in the odd friendly situations we get nowadays would be the main small criticism 

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On 12/6/2022 at 9:20 PM, Diamond Scot said:

Clarke has been the best manager for introducing youth in about the last 30 years.

He has brought in Patterson, Hickey, Ralston, Porteous, Ferguson and Gilmour off the top of my head. 

The likes of Gilmour, Patterson and Hickey have all been brought in and given starting places when there were options to keep them on the bench.

Clarke is trying to create a club like squad and make caps something that are earned. He is managing to do this whilst still bringing in youth. People forget that international managers get a limited window to get their tactics over. Swapping and changing players all the time is self defeating.

That being said I think theres a few players that are approaching the end of their cycles but again Clarke has timed most of these guys perfectly.

That's a bold claim. I'm not saying he's bad at it but he does have a tendency to pick players who are past it (Jack and McLean), never had it (Jacob Brown) and has a bizarre reluctance to cap a younger goalie, despite Craig Gordon turning 40 at the end of this month.

I'd also suggest he capped Patterson more out of necessity, ditto Porteous and Ralston, and Gilmour and Ferguson's form was such that they were impossible to ignore (even then, he strangely left Gilmour on the bench against the Czech Republic in the Euros).

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2 hours ago, scotlad said:

That's a bold claim. I'm not saying he's bad at it but he does have a tendency to pick players who are past it (Jack and McLean), never had it (Jacob Brown) and has a bizarre reluctance to cap a younger goalie, despite Craig Gordon turning 40 at the end of this month.

I'd also suggest he capped Patterson more out of necessity, ditto Porteous and Ralston, and Gilmour and Ferguson's form was such that they were impossible to ignore (even then, he strangely left Gilmour on the bench against the Czech Republic in the Euros).

At the time when Patterson, Hickey and Ralston were capped it would have been easy to not have picked them. Patterson and Hickey in particular I remember saying to my mates that I just hoped he made the brave decision, fully expecting to be disappointed when I saw the team sheet. 

Likewise Gilmour, playing him with so few clubs games is something rarely seen. Probably not since Fletcher and McFadden.

Personally I was disappointed to see the likes of Jack and McLean during the last game but theres a balance to be struck. To leave a previously picked player out then you need to be pretty sure that they are done. It hardly screams confidence if you leave older player A out for younger player B. Younger player B then doesnt work out and then you need to go back to older player A and try and convince him that he has your full belief.

I just think Clarke has been brilliant and managing the squad. Bringing guys in like Gallagher, Considine etc who did a job but then phasing them out for better players. Even the likes of Odonnell was managed really well.

Theres a good few things that Clarke can be criticised on. I just dont think not playing youth is one of them.

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