Scottish players in action 21/22

[Caledonian Craig]

5 hours ago, Kirk said:

He had played more im pretty sure, and was slightly older. Steve clarke isnt going to throw in an untested 16 year old, not going to happen.

Darren Fletcher was 17 when he made his United debut and had perhaps played 10 first team games for United when he won his first cap for Scotland so very little difference at all. You are probably right that Clarke isn't going to cap him anytime soon and therein lies Scotland's problem. We'd sooner plod along with mediocrity getting chances who are never going to make it than give our young players with great talent a game. I know that next time I am at Hampden I'd be far more excited by the prospect of Ben Doak being on the bench than Jacob Brown. 

[breeks_mctavish]

9 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Not just the finish but that is a beautiful goal. Probably give him an assist for it too if that was allowed.

Totally different game to what we see in Scotland.

Great to see the latest Scottish youngster tearing up  Serie A. Who should we send over next?

[ErsatzThistle]

21 minutes ago, breeks_mctavish said:

Great to see the latest Scottish youngster tearing up  Serie A. Who should we send over next?

Connor Barron ?

Or hope a young Italian goalkeeper in Serie A has a Scottish granny !

[Tartan blood]

4 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Darren Fletcher was 17 when he made his United debut and had perhaps played 10 first team games for United when he won his first cap for Scotland so very little difference at all. You are probably right that Clarke isn't going to cap him anytime soon and therein lies Scotland's problem. We'd sooner plod along with mediocrity getting chances who are never going to make it than give our young players with great talent a game. I know that next time I am at Hampden I'd be far more excited by the prospect of Ben Doak being on the bench than Jacob Brown. 

I think that's a tad harsh. Clarke gave call ups to Gilmour, Patterson, Hickey, Doig(?) and Ramsay as teenagers. All still eligible for the u21s. I'm fairly certain Turnbull and Ferguson were still eligible for the u21s when they got their first callups, too. 

Clarke, understandably, doesn't call up players on a whim due to purple patches, but he will choose guys regardless of age if they deserve it.

[Caledonian Craig]

15 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I think that's a tad harsh. Clarke gave call ups to Gilmour, Patterson, Hickey, Doig(?) and Ramsay as teenagers. All still eligible for the u21s. I'm fairly certain Turnbull and Ferguson were still eligible for the u21s when they got their first callups, too. 

Clarke, understandably, doesn't call up players on a whim due to purple patches, but he will choose guys regardless of age if they deserve it.

Fair enough but that just backs up my point that give youth a chance and they are an improvement on other options open to us. Liverpool is full of world class coaches who know quality when they see it and have elevated Doak into the first team environment already.

[mccaughey85]

5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Darren Fletcher was 17 when he made his United debut and had perhaps played 10 first team games for United when he won his first cap for Scotland so very little difference at all. You are probably right that Clarke isn't going to cap him anytime soon and therein lies Scotland's problem. We'd sooner plod along with mediocrity getting chances who are never going to make it than give our young players with great talent a game. I know that next time I am at Hampden I'd be far more excited by the prospect of Ben Doak being on the bench than Jacob Brown. 

Clarkes capped loads of young players. Hickey, patterson, gilmour, maybe turnbull?

A few more apps for liverpool and clarke will call him up. 15mins in the efl cup isnt really justification imo. Its a tournament that epl clubs play their young players in. Saying that theres a good chance doak gets more first team chances this season and the march qualifiers might be a time to call him up if hes getting the odd game for liverpool. 

 

[mccaughey85]

Adams goal.

[Tartan blood]

3 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Fair enough but that just backs up my point that give youth a chance and they are an improvement on other options open to us. Liverpool is full of world class coaches who know quality when they see it and have elevated Doak into the first team environment already.

Would you call up Doak now? For Turkey.

Comparing Fletcher to Doak doesn't really work due to the fact we have a significantly deeper and better pool of players now than we did in 2003. So it's actually quite commendable that Clarke has called up so many young guys in the last couple of years.

Doak looks inevitable. But I said that about Gauld. I did also say that about Robertson though. 

[Caledonian Craig]

44 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

Would you call up Doak now? For Turkey.

 

Yes I would.

Get him integrated into the set-up ASAP. It is surely a far better option than pursuing with options such as Jacob Brown who is never going to cut the mustard for us.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Caledonian Craig

[ErsatzThistle]

Clarke quoted in the Herald saying that they are seriously considering looking in the USA, Canada and Australia for eligible goalkeepers.

He also dropped a big hint to Robby McCrorie that it's now or never for him to find first team football either at Rangers or elsewhere.

[Tartan blood]

26 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes I would.

Get him integrated into the set-up ASAP. It is surely a far better option than pursuing with options such as Jacob Brown who is never going to cut the mustard for us.

I'm very much in favour of calling up youngsters and getting them training with the seniors. But within reason. Doak turned 17 a few days ago. I don't think there would be much benefit in flying him out to Turkey just to train with the squad. I'd rather see him start for the u21s and get more coaching with Liverpool in that time.

If he does continue to get plenty of exposure to the Liverpool first team then I don't think March would be too early to get him involved. Especially since we don't have too many out and out wingers available. 

[breeks_mctavish]

3 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Connor Barron ?

Or hope a young Italian goalkeeper in Serie A has a Scottish granny !

Could be a good shout. I’d be quite happy for Billy Gilmour to head out there

[DAVIDB46]

2 hours ago, breeks_mctavish said:

Could be a good shout. I’d be quite happy for Billy Gilmour to head out there

Do think he may have to go on loan somewhere again as he won’t get anywhere near this Brighton side for league games 

[Third Lanark]

2 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

I'm very much in favour of calling up youngsters and getting them training with the seniors. But within reason. Doak turned 17 a few days ago. I don't think there would be much benefit in flying him out to Turkey just to train with the squad. I'd rather see him start for the u21s and get more coaching with Liverpool in that time.

If he does continue to get plenty of exposure to the Liverpool first team then I don't think March would be too early to get him involved. Especially since we don't have too many out and out wingers available. 

It would mean changing the system if we're going to use wingers unless he does a Fraser and plays in a 2 with Adams or Dykes.

[ceudmilefailte]

13 minutes ago, DAVIDB46 said:

Do think he may have to go on loan somewhere again as he won’t get anywhere near this Brighton side for league games 

Can't see him going on loan, he's perfect cover for the passing possession game Brighton play.

[Tartan blood]

40 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

It would mean changing the system if we're going to use wingers unless he does a Fraser and plays in a 2 with Adams or Dykes.

Sometimes a player comes along that is so good that it forces you to change your approach. That's exactly what happened with Tierney and Robertson. 

We also became more of a ball playing team with the introduction of Gilmour. Which I hope we see more of in the near future.

But I'm sure Doak could play off a striker easily enough, if we aren't changing our shape.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Tartan blood

[Caledonian Craig]

1 hour ago, Tartan blood said:

Sometimes a player comes along that is so good that it forces you to change your approach. That's exactly what happened with Tierney and Robertson. 

We also became more of a ball playing team with the introduction of Gilmour. Which I hope we see more of in the near future.

But I'm sure Doak could play off a striker easily enough, if we aren't changing our shape.

I agree.

Ryan Fraser is seen as a winger who plays for us so cannot see why Doak will not be accommodated likewise.

[scotlad]

18 hours ago, Kirk said:

He had played more im pretty sure, and was slightly older. Steve clarke isnt going to throw in an untested 16 year old, not going to happen.

All the rangers fans I know say he has been absolutely terrible since been given a run in the team, and I'm talking season ticket holders that see him properly.

Fletcher was 19 when he made his Scotland debut and had already played Champions League football. Doak has played a few minutes against a third division team in the Carabao Cup.

Doak has got something, undoubtedly, and hopefully we'll see him in the senior team soon, but he isn't ready for full international football yet.

18 hours ago, Hertsscot said:

'Since being given a run in the team' is one way of putting it. 'Being chucked in at the deep end in a team that is struggling and hasn't got any other fit centre halves and has two full backs who can't defend with no decent midfield to protect him' is another way of putting it. I'm not writing him off just yet but it's worrying that a bright young prospect looks out of his depth. As I say I think there's mitigating factors and I hope the torrid experience of playing in this Rangers team hasn't harmed his progress.

Celtic and Rangers fans have a tendency to blame young players who've come through the ranks (particularly young Scots players) when things are going badly. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by scotlad

[mcguffin]

1 hour ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Can't see him going on loan, he's perfect cover for the passing possession game Brighton play.

Watched the Brighton vs Aston Villa game today. Was disappointed that Gilmour didn't get on after his good performance in the game against Arsenal in midweek.  On the plus side, John McGinn looked very good.

[er yir macaroon]

On 11/11/2022 at 5:24 AM, mccaughey85 said:

Do you think mcfadden was a better player than shaqiri?

Not necessarily but McFadden played out his skin for Scotland.

[Malcolm]

Hope we play 4-2-3-1 again

 

                           Gordon

patterson.    Hendry.  McKenna.    Robertson

                      Mctominay. Jack

     Fraser.              Mcginn.          Christie

                              Dykes

 

 

Half time, tierney for Robertson,  gilmour for jack, Ferguson for Mcginn.

60 mins, Ramsay for Patterson, Adams for dykes.

[hampden_loon2878]

maybe slightly off topic however having kids who both play football, they have a better chance of achieving things than me or my generation ever had. there is so much football programs on the go and the weekly festivals they have, have always got scouts at them. If there were a scout at a festival/gala when i was a kid, it was a huge deal, now it is just standard. No kid should slip through the net nowadays, they are also picked up a lot sooner which can only help(i think) it doesnt come as a surprise to me that we are starting to produce top quality youngster, long may it continue

[Kirk]

23 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Darren Fletcher was 17 when he made his United debut and had perhaps played 10 first team games for United when he won his first cap for Scotland so very little difference at all. You are probably right that Clarke isn't going to cap him anytime soon and therein lies Scotland's problem. We'd sooner plod along with mediocrity getting chances who are never going to make it than give our young players with great talent a game. I know that next time I am at Hampden I'd be far more excited by the prospect of Ben Doak being on the bench than Jacob Brown. 

As scotlad said below Fletcher had much more experience for Man U when he got his first cap including champions league. 

Caribou cup isn't enough. 

Id agree with the Jacob Brown thing, don't get that at all, weird inclusion in squads. 

11 hours ago, scotlad said:

Fletcher was 19 when he made his Scotland debut and had already played Champions League football. Doak has played a few minutes against a third division team in the Carabao Cup.

Doak has got something, undoubtedly, and hopefully we'll see him in the senior team soon, but he isn't ready for full international football yet.

Celtic and Rangers fans have a tendency to blame young players who've come through the ranks (particularly young Scots players) when things are going badly. 

Agree with first half, he will get his chance once he plays some more games. And next season he might go out on loan to get regular game time, or get more appearances off the bench, which will force him in.

 

I don't disagree but the guys I'm talking about are all very fair in their criticism of players and the team in general. Think King has been very poor in a poor team. 

[csinclair]

Asked a pal who's a Stoke fan about Brown and he rates him but says he's suffered this season from a mix of injury, change in manager and change in formation. He played his best stuff last season playing as a striker or part of a front 3 and then this season they've changed system a lot and in some games found himself being played at wing back

[mccaughey85]

1 hour ago, csinclair said:

Asked a pal who's a Stoke fan about Brown and he rates him but says he's suffered this season from a mix of injury, change in manager and change in formation. He played his best stuff last season playing as a striker or part of a front 3 and then this season they've changed system a lot and in some games found himself being played at wing back

He scored 14 last season so hes probably in the squad of the back of that. Maybe clarke thinks he might progress in the future and become a more prolific striker. Either way hes currently just a squad filler and we wont be starting the guy unless theres a major injury crisis to our main strikers.