Striker curse

[Tartan blood]

1 hour ago, Third Lanark said:

It's not just strikers though; we seem to not be producing wide players (hesitate to call them wingers). Currently we have Forrest and Fraser but where are their successors? McPake, Kennedy and Middleton I have fingers crossed for though. Mind you, they are all left-footed and I haven't seen a right-sided 'winger' come through in recent seasons. Scotland used to be legendary for producing Sancho and Sterling types - one reason why they are performing better in the Euros than us.

Considering we took 5 attacking midfielders and only really used 1, maybe it doesn't matter right now (for the current formation)

I do worry that Clarke will stick too ridgidly to this formation, even if/when we produce bona-fide wingers.

[ErsatzThistle]

14 hours ago, ProudScot said:

I do get your point but I think there is some real talent in amongst this group;

Robby McCrorie, Leon King, Lewis Mayo, Ben Williamson, Stephen Kelly, Kai Kennedy, Josh McPake & Glenn Middleton

Most of those players will go on loan at a good level this year and we can gauge where they are at, Stephen Kelly could make his breakthrough this season at Rangers. 

You're kidding yourself on if you think McPake, Middleton, Kelly and Mayo will make it.

Josh McPake is 19 and turns 20 in August. Now on his fourth loan club (Morecambe in League One) and not impressed in any of his previous loans.

Glenn Middleton is 20 and on his third loan club. Looks like going back to St Johnstone again. He's a decent mid-table Scottish Prem player but nowhere near good enough for Rangers first team.

Lewis Mayo is 21 and hasn't broken through at Ibrox. If you can't do it by that age then it's never going to happen.

Stephen Kelly is 21 and in the same boat as Mayo. And similar to Middleton looks a competent middle/lower half team player but not good enough for a team chasing titles.

Steven Gerrard will not be dropping title winning players for any of these four guys. They didn't make it.

McCrorie needs to move away from Ibrox if he is to fulfil his potential. McGregor is just going to go on playing into his 40s. It's no good having McCrorie stuck as a No. 2 or No. 3 keeper for the next few years.

[Rolling hIlls]

Its young Patterson that worries me from a Scotland point of view. If he stays at rangers he will just get cameo roles this season. Not good for his development or for Scotland. Might be better on loan or sold. He certainly looks a player.

[aaid]

1 hour ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Its young Patterson that worries me from a Scotland point of view. If he stays at rangers he will just get cameo roles this season. Not good for his development or for Scotland. Might be better on loan or sold. He certainly looks a player.

Not saying it will be easy or straightforward but if he is good enough to play for Scotland then he should also be good enough to put Tavernier out of the team.

[Tartan blood]

1 hour ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Its young Patterson that worries me from a Scotland point of view. If he stays at rangers he will just get cameo roles this season. Not good for his development or for Scotland. Might be better on loan or sold. He certainly looks a player.

I think we can still get at least a couple more good years out of O'Donnell. So I'm not overly concerned from a Scotland point of view.

From Patterson's point of view, it would be a huge shame for him to become a bench warmer after his rise the past 6 months. No way will Rangers let him leave in any shape or form. 

[Rolling hIlls]

1 minute ago, Tartan blood said:

I think we can still get at least a couple more good years out of O'Donnell. So I'm not overly concerned from a Scotland point of view.

From Patterson's point of view, it would be a huge shame for him to become a bench warmer after his rise the past 6 months. No way will Rangers let him leave in any shape or form. 

Mark hately in papers today saying rangers could make room for the two. I remember Gough. He was a brilliant right back. Sourness put him at centre half and the rest is history. So we will see. Just thinking about the boys development and his role in Scotland. 

[ProudScot]

8 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I think we can still get at least a couple more good years out of O'Donnell. So I'm not overly concerned from a Scotland point of view.

From Patterson's point of view, it would be a huge shame for him to become a bench warmer after his rise the past 6 months. No way will Rangers let him leave in any shape or form. 

You’re having a laugh on O’Donnell.

He was horrific vs Czech, had the game of his life vs England which got everyone going OTT about him and then showed vs Croatia why its like playing with 10 men with him down the right flank.

Patterson has to play, even if he’s not starting every game for Rangers. Gilmour has to play, even if he’s not starting or even getting on the bench every week for his club side. 

These guys are miles better than the next option down the pecking order. 

[Tartan blood]

1 minute ago, ProudScot said:

You’re having a laugh on O’Donnell.

He was horrific vs Czech, had the game of his life vs England which got everyone going OTT about him and then showed vs Croatia why its like playing with 10 men with him down the right flank.

Patterson has to play, even if he’s not starting every game for Rangers. Gilmour has to play, even if he’s not starting or even getting on the bench every week for his club side. 

These guys are miles better than the next option down the pecking order. 

I agree that both Patterson and Gilmour look like a step up from what we had previously. Gilmour looks like a superior version of McGregor. I think this tournament will be the pinnacle of his career.

Patterson looks like he could be our best right back since Hutton. But if he's not even getting off the bench for Rangers regurlaly, then I'm still okay with playing O'Donnell for the next few games at least. (Let's not turn this into an O'Donnell bashing thread)

[Tartan blood]

8 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Mark hately in papers today saying rangers could make room for the two. I remember Gough. He was a brilliant right back. Sourness put him at centre half and the rest is history. So we will see. Just thinking about the boys development and his role in Scotland. 

From a business point of view, Rangers should sell Tavernier. His stock will never be higher and they won't have to spend any money replacing him. But Rangers aren't exactly known for being business savvy.

[Rolling hIlls]

Just now, Tartan blood said:

From a business point of view, Rangers should sell Tavernier. His stock will never be higher and they won't have to spend any money replacing him. But Rangers aren't exactly known for being business savvy.

Yo be honest tou could be right. But I think he enjoys life as being captain of rangers too much. So I don't think that will happen.

[Tartan blood]

10 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Yo be honest tou could be right. But I think he enjoys life as being captain of rangers too much. So I don't think that will happen.

I know it won't be popular with the fans, but holding onto a player too long can often backfire. Look at what happened to Celtic last year. They would have gotten very good money for Edouard, Ntcham and Ajer, but forced them to stay because they knew the fans wouldn't have accepted it. They will lose a fortune over that decision.

However, as you say, Tavernier might want to stay.

[Diamond Scot]

14 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

From a business point of view, Rangers should sell Tavernier. His stock will never be higher and they won't have to spend any money replacing him. But Rangers aren't exactly known for being business savvy.

I said this in another thread months ago. At the AGM the sporting director laid out the future business model which was effectively buy low, develop and sell high, with a replacement either already in the door or identified.

The reality at Ibrox is different though as they show no signs of implenting this model.

Tav should have been sold the minute the season was over. With his stats etc I think Rangers could have easily got about 7 million with 3 extra in add ons.

Moreles is the same but they have let his value drop sugnificantly.

Realistically Rangers could sell Tav, Moreles and Kamara for 30 million all in and not weaken the team at all.

[Rolling hIlls]

21 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

I said this in another thread months ago. At the AGM the sporting director laid out the future business model which was effectively buy low, develop and sell high, with a replacement either already in the door or identified.

The reality at Ibrox is different though as they show no signs of implenting this model.

Tav should have been sold the minute the season was over. With his stats etc I think Rangers could have easily got about 7 million with 3 extra in add ons.

Moreles is the same but they have let his value drop sugnificantly.

Realistically Rangers could sell Tav, Moreles and Kamara for 30 million all in and not weaken the team at all.

That's a good post. I don't think taverneir will want to leave though. Morales and kamala maybe. Same as  Edward from celtic.  U can't blame them from wanting to further caeers and become instant millionaires. We are a wee country and tv money dictates all unfortunately. My priority is Scotland and want gilmour and Patterson to be match fit.

[Rolling hIlls]

4 minutes ago, Rolling hIlls said:

That's a good post. I don't think taverneir will want to leave though. Morales and kamala maybe. Same as  Edward from celtic.  U can't blame them from wanting to further caeers and become instant millionaires. We are a wee country and tv money dictates all unfortunately. My priority is Scotland and want gilmour and Patterson to be match fit.

And the wee  boy from celtic. Keep forgetting his name. But Clarke should build the team around them with Tierney and Robertson. 

[er yir macaroon]

46 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

I said this in another thread months ago. At the AGM the sporting director laid out the future business model which was effectively buy low, develop and sell high, with a replacement either already in the door or identified.

The reality at Ibrox is different though as they show no signs of implenting this model.

Tav should have been sold the minute the season was over. With his stats etc I think Rangers could have easily got about 7 million with 3 extra in add ons.

Moreles is the same but they have let his value drop sugnificantly.

Realistically Rangers could sell Tav, Moreles and Kamara for 30 million all in and not weaken the team at all.

It’s more likely Patterson will be sold. He’ll soon be too good for the SPFL. I expect Tavernier to stay till the end of his career given his age. 

[Diamond Scot]

19 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

It’s more likely Patterson will be sold. He’ll soon be too good for the SPFL. I expect Tavernier to stay till the end of his career given his age. 

Patterson will only be too good if he gets game time though.

From a club point of view it makes no sense to play Tav and limit Pattersons game time / potential value. In the same way it makes no sense to not sell Tav but then play Patterson.

Rangers bought Kamara for 50k. He had a decent Euros and there were already rumours about clubs being interested. He is another that could easily go for 7 million plus 3 million add on and a % of future fee. They have brought in a direct replacement on a free transfer so keeping the one who is worth more again makes no sense.

 

[er yir macaroon]

5 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Patterson will only be too good if he gets game time though.

From a club point of view it makes no sense to play Tav and limit Pattersons game time / potential value. In the same way it makes no sense to not sell Tav but then play Patterson.

Rangers bought Kamara for 50k. He had a decent Euros and there were already rumours about clubs being interested. He is another that could easily go for 7 million plus 3 million add on and a % of future fee. They have brought in a direct replacement on a free transfer so keeping the one who is worth more again makes no sense.

 

A team will come in for Patterson in the next 12 months, Tavernier won’t be sold. It will be more cost effective to keep him since he’s nearly 30.

[Tartan blood]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

I said this in another thread months ago. At the AGM the sporting director laid out the future business model which was effectively buy low, develop and sell high, with a replacement either already in the door or identified.

The reality at Ibrox is different though as they show no signs of implenting this model.

Tav should have been sold the minute the season was over. With his stats etc I think Rangers could have easily got about 7 million with 3 extra in add ons.

Moreles is the same but they have let his value drop sugnificantly.

Realistically Rangers could sell Tav, Moreles and Kamara for 30 million all in and not weaken the team at all.

There are so many examples of that happening in Scotland. E.g Hooper, Kayal, McKenna. Realistically, if someone has a stand out season, are they likely to better that the following year? Not usually. But even if they did, how much would that really add to their value? Tavernier will not do better than he did this year. And he'll be in his 30s. He will never be more valuable than he is now.

Patterson's value will not rise if he doesn't play. Selling him before Tavernier would make no financial sense. Rangers could literally sell Tav for £10m now, play Patterson all year, and then sell him for £10m if they wanted to = £20m. The opposite would result in getting maybe a couple of million for Patterson now, and zero for Tavernier as he winds down his career.

[ParisInAKilt]

Patterson hasn’t played enough football to realistically predict if he’ll even make it at rangers, never mind progressing beyond that. 

[er yir macaroon]

17 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

There are so many examples of that happening in Scotland. E.g Hooper, Kayal, McKenna. Realistically, if someone has a stand out season, are they likely to better that the following year? Not usually. But even if they did, how much would that really add to their value? Tavernier will not do better than he did this year. And he'll be in his 30s. He will never be more valuable than he is now.

Patterson's value will not rise if he doesn't play. Selling him before Tavernier would make no financial sense. Rangers could literally sell Tav for £10m now, play Patterson all year, and then sell him for £10m if they wanted to = £20m. The opposite would result in getting maybe a couple of million for Patterson now, and zero for Tavernier as he winds down his career.

£10M for an almost 30 Tavernier? Rangers won’t sell Patterson for less than £15M. They know how good he will be and so will the bidders. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by er yir macaroon

[ParisInAKilt]

6 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

£10M for an almost 30 Tavernier? Rangers won’t sell Patterson for less than £15M. They know how good he will be and so will the bidders. 

15 million? 😂😂 He’s played 16 games for Rangers. 

[Tartan blood]

27 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

£10M for an almost 30 Tavernier? Rangers won’t sell Patterson for less than £15M. They know how good he will be and so will the bidders. 

Player of the year, Captain, 29, loads of goals and assists, English! They'd be daft to let him go for less than £10m to an English team (depending on his contract length).

Patterson won't be worth anywhere near £15m if Tavernier is playing ahead of him every week. However, he could be worth that this time next year if they are smart enough to sell Tavernier now.

[csinclair]

Don't think Tavernier would leave Rangers tbh. I think he's happy being captain there and will probably see out his career at Ibrox. 
I'd love for Patterson to move on but can't see it happening for at least a year.

[mccaughey85]

24 minutes ago, csinclair said:

Don't think Tavernier would leave Rangers tbh. I think he's happy being captain there and will probably see out his career at Ibrox. 
I'd love for Patterson to move on but can't see it happening for at least a year.

I would like to see Patterson establish himself in the rangers team then maybe 2/3 years time move to the EPL. 

[mccaughey85]

1 hour ago, Tartan blood said:

There are so many examples of that happening in Scotland. E.g Hooper, Kayal, McKenna. Realistically, if someone has a stand out season, are they likely to better that the following year? Not usually. But even if they did, how much would that really add to their value? Tavernier will not do better than he did this year. And he'll be in his 30s. He will never be more valuable than he is now.

Patterson's value will not rise if he doesn't play. Selling him before Tavernier would make no financial sense. Rangers could literally sell Tav for £10m now, play Patterson all year, and then sell him for £10m if they wanted to = £20m. The opposite would result in getting maybe a couple of million for Patterson now, and zero for Tavernier as he winds down his career.

Yeh its a case of cash in now for Tavernier, I reckon they could get at least 10m for him. Problem is he brings alot to the rangers team so perhaps they would be better keeping him if they feel Patterson won't make as big a contribution to the team. 

I reckon with the right rotation Patterson can still get plenty of game time even if Tavernier stays. Rangers probably play 70 games a season so they need a strong squad.