Expectation and Reality

[exile]

Just reflecting on what happened this time with our expectations at this tournament. Were they inflated, if so why, how did that happen? What led us to think that we could do it this time, given our rating as 4th in the group, and previous performance in tournaments, and recent performances (in last year, say)? Did it feel like this was a new generation not burdened with the past and who could break the hoodoo? Or that we actually have skilful under-rated young players, but for one reason or another didn't get to show it? Or did we over-rate home advantage tipping things in our favour?

Or, for those who thought the outcome was pretty much par for the course, how come you called it right?

Or, was anyone pleasantly surprised by the reality?

Edited June 23, 2021 by exile

[Third Lanark]

I thought the fact that this was a new generation and no one was talking about winning, that getting out of the group was a real possibility. But I really didn't foresee the Croatia collapse. Still cannot understand how Wales and NI - and the Republic - have got out of their groups at one time or another. I really thought we had a team better than the sum of its parts.

[Daz1982]

It’s not just the other home nations who have progressed to the knockout and latter stages of tournaments, look throughout Europe.

Every other nation at one point has qualified out of their respective group, some even gone on to win the tournament!

Bulgaria, Romania, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Greece etc etc

It’s really difficult to understand how/why we continue to fail as the generations come and go. You would think at some point the stars would align and we could string a couple of results together at the right time in order to qualify.

An average looking Swedish side has just topped their Euro 2020 group for example, why do we never do this!?

[Auchinyell Sox Change]

1 minute ago, Daz1982 said:

It’s not just the other home nations who have progressed to the knockout and latter stages of tournaments, look throughout Europe.

Every other nation at one point has qualified out of their respective group, some even gone on to win the tournament!

Bulgaria, Romania, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Greece etc etc

It’s really difficult to understand how/why we continue to fail as the generations come and go. You would think at some point the stars would align and we could string a couple of results together at the right time in order to qualify.

An average looking Swedish side has just topped their Euro 2020 group for example, why do we never do this!?

Nobody’s mentioned independence yet then ? That usually gets thrown in the mix on exit analysis 

[Daz1982]

12 minutes ago, Auchinyell Sox Change said:

Nobody’s mentioned independence yet then ? That usually gets thrown in the mix on exit analysis 

Looks like you just did.

[Dodger]

19 minutes ago, Daz1982 said:

It’s not just the other home nations who have progressed to the knockout and latter stages of tournaments, look throughout Europe.

Every other nation at one point has qualified out of their respective group, some even gone on to win the tournament!

Bulgaria, Romania, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Greece etc etc

It’s really difficult to understand how/why we continue to fail as the generations come and go. You would think at some point the stars would align and we could string a couple of results together at the right time in order to qualify.

An average looking Swedish side has just topped their Euro 2020 group for example, why do we never do this!?

Sweden have attacking players playing for real sociedad, juventus and RB leipzig. We have nothing like that quality in forward positions. 

[thesaint]

2 minutes ago, Daz1982 said:

It’s not just the other home nations who have progressed to the knockout and latter stages of tournaments, look throughout Europe.

Every other nation at one point has qualified out of their respective group, some even gone on to win the tournament!

Bulgaria, Romania, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Greece etc etc

It’s really difficult to understand how/why we continue to fail as the generations come and go. You would think at some point the stars would align and we could string a couple of results together at the right time in order to qualify.

An average looking Swedish side has just topped their Euro 2020 gr playing negatively,oup for example, why do we never do this!?

Hungary gone ahead against Germany.Can you imagine us doing that.These teams believed they could get something out of games.We go into games trying not to lose{the ironic fact being we usually do anyway}.I'm afraid the managers timidity shows in the players performances.Far too rigid and negative.The perfect example was yesterday,when we somehow got back into the game just before half time.This was the perfect chance for Clarke to say this hasn't been working but we've got away with one here.Now let's make a couple of positive changes and give the Croatian team something different to think about.No,put's the same team out again and it is even worse than the first half.Really don't understand why Steve Clarke couldn't see what we could see,that we were getting totally dominated.Why did he think the same players would suddenly turn it on.I'm afraid he is not a proactive manager but i'm afraid he is certainly a reactive one.Waited until we went 2-1 down,and having to score twice before he brought on Fraser.

[kumnio]

Hungary giving Germany all sorts of problems, with a midfield from Osijek, Bristol City and Dunajska Strega, and forwards from Mainz and Freiburg. 

But our Celtic, Villa, Southampton and QPR players aren’t good enough apparently. 

[Bino's]

9 minutes ago, kumnio said:

Hungary giving Germany all sorts of problems, with a midfield from Osijek, Bristol City and Dunajska Strega, and forwards from Mainz and Freiburg. 

But our Celtic, Villa, Southampton and QPR players aren’t good enough apparently. 

Are they playing long ball?

[kumnio]

2 minutes ago, Bino's said:

Are they playing long ball?

No, they are doing this weird thing, passing to each other, also not allowing Germany to stroll about the park. Strange concepts. 

[Malcolm]

i think we achieved what I expected,  the odd point and the odd goal against teams significantly better than us.

[Bino's]

19 minutes ago, thesaint said:

Hungary gone ahead against Germany.Can you imagine us doing that.These teams believed they could get something out of games.We go into games trying not to lose{the ironic fact being we usually do anyway}.I'm afraid the managers timidity shows in the players performances.Far too rigid and negative.The perfect example was yesterday,when we somehow got back into the game just before half time.This was the perfect chance for Clarke to say this hasn't been working but we've got away with one here.Now let's make a couple of positive changes and give the Croatian team something different to think about.No,put's the same team out again and it is even worse than the first half.Really don't understand why Steve Clarke couldn't see what we could see,that we were getting totally dominated.Why did he think the same players would suddenly turn it on.I'm afraid he is not a proactive manager but i'm afraid he is certainly a reactive one.Waited until we went 2-1 down,and having to score twice before he brought on Fraser.

 

He didn't react, formation wise in the first or last fixture 

But did v Israel away,  which worked 

Bottled crashed possibly 

 

[noctonjock]

I honestly think if we  had played Croatia first and Czechs last we would have qualified.  Yes we would probably still have lost to Croatia but I think we would have beat the Czechs last night . 

[Daz1982]

34 minutes ago, kumnio said:

No, they are doing this weird thing, passing to each other, also not allowing Germany to stroll about the park. Strange concepts. 

Yes, they way we stood off and admired the Croatian midfield passing it around last night (sometimes at walking pace) was a disgrace.

There’s no doubting they have some good players and a great player in Modric, but still no excuse to be so passive in our approach.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Daz1982

[ceudmilefailte]

37 minutes ago, noctonjock said:

I honestly think if we  had played Croatia first and Czechs last we would have qualified.  Yes we would probably still have lost to Croatia but I think we would have beat the Czechs last night . 

Probably have lost to England and I might have had pizza for tea instead of fajitas tonight.

[thesaint]

27 minutes ago, Daz1982 said:

Yes, they way we stood off and admired the Croatian midfield passing it around last night (sometimes at walking pace) was a disgrace.

There’s no doubting they have some good players and a great player in Modric, but still no excuse to be so passive in our approach.

Correct.Horribly passive,and lacking in belief in a must win match.Totally unnaceptable.

[gaz7]

We needed to press their defense more so they didn't have easy passes to midfield. The 2 up front might seem attacking but it means 2 v 4 and they always had plenty time on ball to pick out their better players in midfield. I feel we need to go back to 4 at back .patterson hanley cooper robertson. If patterson not available then play tierney there.  Midfield of gilmour and mctominay as 2 pivots and in front of them mcginn turnbull tierney. Adam's up front.  That gets all best players on pitch. 

[scotlad]

Before the tournament began I felt we had a decent chance of making the next round, but it all hinged on beating the Czech Republic.  I didn't fancy us to get anything at Wembley and I thought we'd struggle against Croatia, despite the game being at Hampden.

Losing the first game meant we were playing catch-up. Even a point would have given us some breathing space going into the final game; as someone on the Mathematics thread pointed out, three draws would have been enough to get us through to the next round.

After the deflation of the Czech result I remember thinking I'd be happy with a point and a goal - just something for the fans to cheer. 

We finally got our goal at a crucial juncture in the game yesterday and I hoped it might have lifted us for the second half. Instead, it had that effect on the opposition.

It is a kick in the chookies to be exiting the tournament early, especially with England and Wales going through, and without much to show for it, but if you'd told me in March 2019, after we'd been gubbed by Kazakhstan, that we'd actually go on and qualify for the finals, I'd have laughed in your face.

[Toepoke]

7 hours ago, gaz7 said:

  Midfield of gilmour and mctominay as 2 pivots  

Would've been a struggle with Billy self isolating. 

 

[TDYER63]

8 hours ago, scotlad said:

Before the tournament began I felt we had a decent chance of making the next round, but it all hinged on beating the Czech Republic.  I didn't fancy us to get anything at Wembley and I thought we'd struggle against Croatia, despite the game being at Hampden.

Losing the first game meant we were playing catch-up. Even a point would have given us some breathing space going into the final game; as someone on the Mathematics thread pointed out, three draws would have been enough to get us through to the next round.

After the deflation of the Czech result I remember thinking I'd be happy with a point and a goal - just something for the fans to cheer. 

We finally got our goal at a crucial juncture in the game yesterday and I hoped it might have lifted us for the second half. Instead, it had that effect on the opposition.

It is a kick in the chookies to be exiting the tournament early, especially with England and Wales going through, and without much to show for it, but if you'd told me in March 2019, after we'd been gubbed by Kazakhstan, that we'd actually go on and qualify for the finals, I'd have laughed in your face.

Sums it up exactly for me. First game was a killer. We had to get something from that. Drawing with England gave us a temporary stay of execution , although we did more than enough to earn it.
When your back is to the wall, stronger teams with greater experience will normally pull it out of the bag. Croatia did exactly that, and despite them having the the hassle of flying in and out the UK for every game. 
We just dont have the resilience to take us that extra step at the moment but have definitely improved since 2019. 

[exile]

Losing Tierney just before the first game, and Gilmour just before the last one, were certainly blows (reasons for why reality wasn't as good as expectation). But even so, Gilmour only became a red hot expectation after the England game. So our hopes against Croatia were raised by Croatia's own mediocre start, and Gilmour's Wembley performance, only for fate to bite.

Edited June 24, 2021 by exile

[DAVIDB46]

You have maxwells saying this team can qualify for the next SIX tournaments .

in a few months it’s back to World Cup qualifying where a rampant danish side may put us to the sword and that will quickly knock that theory on the head .

[DAVIDB46]

20 minutes ago, DAVIDB46 said:

You have maxwells saying this team can qualify for the next SIX tournaments .

in a few months it’s back to World Cup qualifying where a rampant danish side may put us to the sword and that will quickly knock that theory on the head .

It’s actually four but that is probably very unrealistic 

[Mox]

11 hours ago, kumnio said:

Hungary giving Germany all sorts of problems, with a midfield from Osijek, Bristol City and Dunajska Strega, and forwards from Mainz and Freiburg. 

But our Celtic, Villa, Southampton and QPR players aren’t good enough apparently. 

Vanderark and PIAK heads must have exploded over night with the revelation that inferior players can give better players a game over 90 minutes with some decent management.

[vanderark14]

1 minute ago, Mox said:

Vanderark and PIAK heads must have exploded over night with the revelation that inferior players can give better players a game over 90 minutes with some decent management.

I've missed Mox and his drama

Hungary gave a top team a game and drew, we gave England a game and drew......., actually we we were better than England. Hungary finished bottom, we finished bottom

 

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by vanderark14