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Stephen O'Donnell


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2 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Are you talking about the England game? 

He played well against England but his overall Scotland career has been hit or miss. He looked quite poor against the Czech. Not saying he was terrible but he doesn't offer much going forward imo.

A player can be limited in ability and have a good game. O donnell is limited ability wise, he does have decent games and then has poor games. I don't mind the guy but I would prefer Patterson or even fraser against weaker teams where we need to be more attacking and long term I think we should give Patterson the position. 

That’s a pretty fair viewpoint.

O’Donnell was superb last night. Ryan Fraser showed vs the Faroes why attacking full backs should be picked when we dominate.

I think it tells its own story that O’Donnell has at best played for only mid table SPL clubs. 

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1 hour ago, Barney Rubble said:

We get it that you have a hard-on for Patterson - the same man who has yet to get ahead of Tavernier in the Sevco team.

That's not a reason to spout pish about Stephen O'Donnell who is hands down the best RB/RWB available to Steve Clarke for this tournament.

He's been more than reliable for Scotland in his 21 caps to date - and has contributed to several goals in that time too, most recently against Luxembourg.

Honestly - you are embarrassing yourself with this view.

Why don't you go back and read over the posts regarding o donnell a few days ago. Most were criticising him and berating him. Now after a decent display against England it's swung back the other way. 

I don't mind o donnell, think he's done OK overall in his Scotland career but he's certainly a limited player who goes from hero to villain pretty quickly on here. My views on him are not based on 1 or 2 games. I don't mind him covering the right wing back position but truth is I think there is better options in fraser or forrest. 

Also I don't actually have a hard on for Patterson but I think it's clear from watching both that Patterson has a far higher ceiling than o donnell and I will be shocked if o donnell is our starting right wing back in a couple of years. 

 

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19 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Why don't you go back and read over the posts regarding o donnell a few days ago. Most were criticising him and berating him. Now after a decent display against England it's swung back the other way. 

I don't mind o donnell, think he's done OK overall in his Scotland career but he's certainly a limited player who goes from hero to villain pretty quickly on here. My views on him are not based on 1 or 2 games. I don't mind him covering the right wing back position but truth is I think there is better options in fraser or forrest. 

Also I don't actually have a hard on for Patterson but I think it's clear from watching both that Patterson has a far higher ceiling than o donnell and I will be shocked if o donnell is our starting right wing back in a couple of years. 

 

As a Thistle fan, I've had the benefit of watching Stephen O'Donnell for ten years now. He has not achieved his current status as Scotland's first choice RB/RWB through being a limited player. One other factor to bear in mind - what position did the current national team manager play? Not only that, the current manager was his club manager for two seasons or more. All valid considerations.

Nathan Patterson may well go on to become Scotland's best RB/RWB since Danny McGrain - and I sincerely believe he could be that good if he shapes up defensively - but not at this moment and probably not for a year or so.

Edited by Barney Rubble
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9 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

As a Thistle fan, I've had the benefit of watching Stephen O'Donnell for ten years now. He has not achieved his current status as Scotland's first choice RB/RWB through being a limited player. One other factor to bear in mind - what position did the current national team manager play? Not only that, the current manager was his club manager for two seasons or more. All valid considerations.

Nathan Patterson may well go on to become Scotland's best RB/RWB since Danny McGrain - and I sincerely believe he could be that good if he shapes up defensively - but not at this moment and probably not for a year or so.

Good post Barney.

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9 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

As a Thistle fan, I've had the benefit of watching Stephen O'Donnell for ten years now. He has not achieved his current status as Scotland's first choice RB/RWB through being a limited player. One other factor to bear in mind - what position did the current national team manager play? Not only that, the current manager was his club manager for two seasons or more. All valid considerations.

Nathan Patterson may well go on to become Scotland's best RB/RWB since Danny McGrain - and I sincerely believe he could be that good if he shapes up defensively - but not at this moment and probably not for a year or so.

Spot on. This "limited ability" myth gets wheeled out on a regular basis, with very little justification other than the fact he plays for Motherwell and isn't World Class like his oppoite number on the left.

The Czech game was 1 bad game in, what, 10? Most of our other players would be happy to have that ratio. 

O'Donnell deserves a big move this summer. Not because I have a problem with him playing for Motherwell, but because I think he deserves the financial rewards that all the other Scotland squad players enjoy. And it would finally get the sceptics off his back.

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18 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

Spot on. This "limited ability" myth gets wheeled out on a regular basis, with very little justification other than the fact he plays for Motherwell and isn't World Class like his oppoite number on the left.

The Czech game was 1 bad game in, what, 10? Most of our other players would be happy to have that ratio. 

O'Donnell deserves a big move this summer. Not because I have a problem with him playing for Motherwell, but because I think he deserves the financial rewards that all the other Scotland squad players enjoy. And it would finally get the sceptics off his back.

Clarke made a special mention of him at interview.  Pleased for the guy.

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^ exactly

9 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

As a Thistle fan, I've had the benefit of watching Stephen O'Donnell for ten years now. He has not achieved his current status as Scotland's first choice RB/RWB through being a limited player. One other factor to bear in mind - what position did the current national team manager play? Not only that, the current manager was his club manager for two seasons or more. All valid considerations.

Nathan Patterson may well go on to become Scotland's best RB/RWB since Danny McGrain - and I sincerely believe he could be that good if he shapes up defensively - but not at this moment and probably not for a year or so.

^ This!  Stephen O'Donnell has never let Scotland down.  Stevie Clarke set the team up perfectly on Friday.  Absolute tactical masterclass.  Yet still some people question his selections.

On Friday night O'Donnell had England's most dangerous player (Rahem Sterling) is his back pocket.  England tried specifically to attack that left side, even bringing on Grealish on to overload the left flank.  There simply wasn't a way through for them - they didn't get a sniff.  On top of that O'Donnel put in a couple of dangerous crosses and had our best shot on target.

To question why he is in the side is comical.  He was absolute dynamite on Friday evening.  

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10 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

As a Thistle fan, I've had the benefit of watching Stephen O'Donnell for ten years now. He has not achieved his current status as Scotland's first choice RB/RWB through being a limited player. One other factor to bear in mind - what position did the current national team manager play? Not only that, the current manager was his club manager for two seasons or more. All valid considerations.

Nathan Patterson may well go on to become Scotland's best RB/RWB since Danny McGrain - and I sincerely believe he could be that good if he shapes up defensively - but not at this moment and probably not for a year or so.

Like BR I watched him in his Thistle days and early on picked him out as a future international. Why an ambitious English Championship club has not come in for him puzzles me. A lot of time with Clerke has ironed out the kinks. Nothing against seeing him for 'well in the Scottish Premier but he deserves the financial boost.

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4 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

Spot on. This "limited ability" myth gets wheeled out on a regular basis, with very little justification other than the fact he plays for Motherwell and isn't World Class like his oppoite number on the left.

The Czech game was 1 bad game in, what, 10? Most of our other players would be happy to have that ratio. 

O'Donnell deserves a big move this summer. Not because I have a problem with him playing for Motherwell, but because I think he deserves the financial rewards that all the other Scotland squad players enjoy. And it would finally get the sceptics off his back.

Lol go back a few days and read the posts about him after the Czech game. Or go back over the years in general and you will see plenty of criticism from near enough everyone on this board. I have wheeled out the "limited ability"line plenty and I stick by it. I don't base my judgements over 1 game against England but his overall Scotland career. He had an excellent game against England but he can have really poor games as well. He looked quite poor against the Czechs. I don't mind the guy and I am pleased for him. Hes defo a good squad member but I still think a guy like forrest or fraser would help provide a more attacking threat plus Patterson looks like he could be a cracking option for the near future. Give it a few more games and o donnell will be the villain again, and it won't be me sticking the boot in him. You will have a full board doing that based on 1 or 2 matches. 

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5 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

Spot on. This "limited ability" myth gets wheeled out on a regular basis, with very little justification other than the fact he plays for Motherwell and isn't World Class like his oppoite number on the left.

The Czech game was 1 bad game in, what, 10? Most of our other players would be happy to have that ratio. 

O'Donnell deserves a big move this summer. Not because I have a problem with him playing for Motherwell, but because I think he deserves the financial rewards that all the other Scotland squad players enjoy. And it would finally get the sceptics off his back.

It’s not a myth. 

He had an excellent game in our last game. The game before that he was pretty terrible. Let’s see which O’Donnell we get on Tuesday, hopefully it’s the O’Donnell from the last game 

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11 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Lol go back a few days and read the posts about him after the Czech game. Or go back over the years in general and you will see plenty of criticism from near enough everyone on this board. I have wheeled out the "limited ability"line plenty and I stick by it. I don't base my judgements over 1 game against England but his overall Scotland career. He had an excellent game against England but he can have really poor games as well. He looked quite poor against the Czechs. I don't mind the guy and I am pleased for him. Hes defo a good squad member but I still think a guy like forrest or fraser would help provide a more attacking threat plus Patterson looks like he could be a cracking option for the near future. Give it a few more games and o donnell will be the villain again, and it won't be me sticking the boot in him. You will have a full board doing that based on 1 or 2 matches. 

I am basing it on his overall Scotland career and I defended his inclusion long before the Czech game. I can only remember 1 or 2 shaky performances in his first couple of caps, but in the last 10+ he's been generally very good. 

No one has actually pointed out any other "poor" performances lately because they don't exist. Not in the last year, and probably beyond.

My only concern after the Czech game was that it could be the pressure of the tournament on him.  I didn't doubt his ability.

But, no one is undroppable, and when we are looking to attack more, I'd happily play Forrest, Fraser or Patterson. But against teams like England, I feel comfortable with him being there.

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8 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

It’s not a myth. 

He had an excellent game in our last game. The game before that he was pretty terrible. Let’s see which O’Donnell we get on Tuesday, hopefully it’s the O’Donnell from the last game 

Based on 2 games, yeah, a 50/50 ratio isn't great. Based on 10 games, 10% is pretty great.

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Stephen O'Donnell has revealed that Scotland teammate John McGinn gave him tips on how to handle England attacker Jack Grealish.

McGinn stars alongside Grealish for Aston Villa in the Premier League and he made sure his teammates were well versed on how to handle his quick feet.

O'Donnell has hilariously revealed that he wound up the 25-year-old by complimenting him on his good looks and his large calves.

And his tactics appeared to work as he kept Grealish quiet after he was introduced from the bench in the second half at Wembley.

 

Motherwell defender O'Donnell told Scotland HQ: “I think (for the booking) I was just starting to get a wee bit fed up.

“He had just come on and normally when the fresh wingers come on and you’re a wee bit tired you’re just thinking, ‘I need to hit him here’.

“I was getting fed up with him trying to take the mickey out of me so I gave him a wee hit!

“John McGinn had been giving me some tips. He said if (Grealish) comes on I had to get nibbling in his ear.

 

“But don’t be critical, be complimentary. So the full time he was on I was telling him how good looking he was and that I loved his calves!

“I was asking him how he get his hair like that. John said that if you tell him he was hopeless or to kick him really, really hard he gets up and gets back at you.

"So maybe that was the advantage against Jack Grealish the other night.

“I also noticed he doesn’t shave his calves!

"Most boys shave their legs as it’s good for the masseurs but Jack’s got massive calves and he doesn’t shave them.

“So I said to him they must be so big the fact that he doesn’t shave them and they still get spoken about!”

O'Donnell was immense against England at Wembley and he is hoping for more of the same as Scotland ......

From today's paper

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He was much improved from his performance against Czech Republic but the reality is he should not be the first choice for that position, one reasonable game doesn't change that.

Edited by Mox
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26 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I am basing it on his overall Scotland career and I defended his inclusion long before the Czech game. I can only remember 1 or 2 shaky performances in his first couple of caps, but in the last 10+ he's been generally very good. 

No one has actually pointed out any other "poor" performances lately because they don't exist. Not in the last year, and probably beyond.

My only concern after the Czech game was that it could be the pressure of the tournament on him.  I didn't doubt his ability.

But, no one is undroppable, and when we are looking to attack more, I'd happily play Forrest, Fraser or Patterson. But against teams like England, I feel comfortable with him being there.

He did well in his first few caps, but then went on a wee spell after that where I thought he was genuinely dreadful. In the last year or 2 he's been ok. Nothing spectacular but decent enough. He's now a world beater after a good game v England but he will soon be enemy no. 1 when he has another poor game. Because we are quite a defensive and play a defensive formation I feel we would benefit from a more attacking rwb. Saying that I don't mind o donnell starting games. As I said he's been half decent the last year or 2 but doesnt offer much going forward. Maybe play him in games against elite opposition where a more defensive approach is needed. 

Ppl need to remember that we could go and lose 2 or 3 nil to Croatia and it will be all doom and gloom again about Scotland. We need not to get carried away over a draw with England. We haven't scored a goal yet and Croatia are a tough side who where wc finalists. This place swings from glory to misery after a single game. 

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Aye, we which is fine by me. Unless we can dream a bit then we have nothing. We dreamt a bit about a decent result against England and we came good with a great performance. Let’s live and speculate on the possible, it’s brilliant. Who in their right mind wants to get to an major tournament after all these years and dump themselves in bath of morbid realism…… let’s get carried away, we have to! 2 more days of it. Bring it on baby……. SODZ’s sentiment in these interviews is enough for me.

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2 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

 

Ppl need to remember that we could go and lose 2 or 3 nil to Croatia and it will be all doom and gloom again about Scotland. We need not to get carried away over a draw with England. We haven't scored a goal yet and Croatia are a tough side who where wc finalists. This place swings from glory to misery after a single game. 

True but also lets not shit ourselves over the prospect of playing Croatia and having a beaten mindset going in. As Shearer said they were toothless against England and looked as fired up as a block of ice. Their media is not happy at all either. They were World Cup runners-up three years ago and that team is breaking up and best players are in their early to late 30s. Jeez they never even had the balls to go for the win against the Czechs.

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2 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

He did well in his first few caps, but then went on a wee spell after that where I thought he was genuinely dreadful. In the last year or 2 he's been ok. Nothing spectacular but decent enough. He's now a world beater after a good game v England but he will soon be enemy no. 1 when he has another poor game. Because we are quite a defensive and play a defensive formation I feel we would benefit from a more attacking rwb. Saying that I don't mind o donnell starting games. As I said he's been half decent the last year or 2 but doesnt offer much going forward. Maybe play him in games against elite opposition where a more defensive approach is needed. 

Ppl need to remember that we could go and lose 2 or 3 nil to Croatia and it will be all doom and gloom again about Scotland. We need not to get carried away over a draw with England. We haven't scored a goal yet and Croatia are a tough side who where wc finalists. This place swings from glory to misery after a single game. 

Football fans are an incredibly fickle bunch. Case in point: All seems to be forgiven with Forrest after playing well for 11mins against the Czechs. I'm not against playing him, but he's an example of how short some people's memories are.

Like Clarke, I can remember all of O'Donnell's good games. But it's not only that, he also sees them in training every day, so will be able to see who is in form and confident behind the scenes. Which is why Clarke was brave enough to play the likes of Gilmour. I trust Clarke to choose the right players.

Like @ger intae them said, there is nothing wrong with joining in the hype and being super positive. We've been starved off this for so long, let's revel in it while we can. We can think about personnel changes after the tournament. Right now I love every single player in the squad.

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3 hours ago, Mox said:

He was much improved from his performance against Czech Republic but the reality is he should not be the first choice for that position, one reasonable game doesn't change that.

And the fact is we lost against potentially the easiest game in the group. If Patterson, Forrest or Fraser had played we'll never know if we had got a better result. However, it is fairly obvious that for the current tournament format you get regarded for being brave, not for being defensive/loyal. That doesn't make O'Donnell a bad player, it means that a braver, younger, faster team format could have got a better result. 

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O’Donnell was poor against the Czechs, and absolutely deserved criticism, he was then very good against England and deserved praise. This is how things work, how things have always worked, it’s nothing new.

After the game he was touchy about it, as was Clarke, I can only hope it’s Clarke trying to play mind games. If they think they are above criticism, then they have lost a grip on reality. 

I was delighted with his performance on Friday, but as much as it may irk some people, he is still a player with limited ability, as is every single player. 

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5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

True but also lets not shit ourselves over the prospect of playing Croatia and having a beaten mindset going in. As Shearer said they were toothless against England and looked as fired up as a block of ice. Their media is not happy at all either. They were World Cup runners-up three years ago and that team is breaking up and best players are in their early to late 30s. Jeez they never even had the balls to go for the win against the Czechs.

Yes but we have failed to score a goal in this tournament. Not a great sign if we want to beat a team like Croatia. 

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8 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Yes but we have failed to score a goal in this tournament. Not a great sign if we want to beat a team like Croatia. 

If we don’t score against Croatia then we can have no complaints and will be deservedly eliminated. 

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