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It's got to be 4-4-2


gkm_vancouver

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Clarke deserves a knighthood for giving the nation hope again and rewarding the TA and especially the older TA with at least the chance to see us in a tournament again. But this is what we need on Friday

Marshall

Patterson Hanley Cooper Robbo

Fraser McTominay Gilmour Tierney

McGinn Adams

3-5-2 has served it's purpose to get us here but it's not going to get us the result we need. We don't have the quality to go 1-0 up and then defend for 85mins any more. The difference between then and now is we are in a 3 game ko where if you can win your first game you are almost guaranteed to go through. We haven't. But we've got Gilmour now and he can keep hold of the ball while Fraser,  Adams,  Patterson,  Robbo, Tierney and McGinn can go on darting runs causing mayhem with Mings Stones et al and then create the space and opportunities to get clear chances on goal. Fraser,  Adams,  McGinn have proven they can do that and get winning goals. It also means we can take the heat off the defence by giving England so much to think about and Foden,  Sterling,  Grealish and co won't like tracking back all the time,  it's not their game. 

It's daring and not without risk of course but it shows we are brave,  and are willing to risk it with the benefit of youth,  speed,  no fear, energy and perhaps a bit of guile. 

Add the squad togetherness by keeping Marshall in goal and we've maybe got a formula that might just see us past the group stage. 

Half time changes won't work it has to be from the off. 

What do you think?? 

Edited by gkm_vancouver
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I agree with a lot of what you say. However I'd bite your hand off for a draw because that at least keeps us in the competition. Lose and we're out I reckon. If we 'have a go' I think we stand less than a 10% chance of winning - especially with no real goal threat up front. So, no Gilmour, Patterson or Turnbull for me. 

I agree about Marshall. I'd stick with O'D at right back, 5...yes, 5 in midfield. Forrest, McGinn, McTominay, McGregor and Tierney (or Armstrong if unfit). Adams up front. Good use of subs during the game to keep the energy up. Heavy rain showers predicted, so sapping pitch. 

We need a point more than England need the win, so taking inspiration from Sweden the other day against Spain, shut up shop. Steve Clarke has built his reputation on meticulous planning, now's the time for him to prove it.

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28 minutes ago, gkm_vancouver said:

Clarke deserves a knighthood for giving the nation hope again and rewarding the TA and especially the older TA with at least the chance to see us in a tournament again. But this is what we need on Friday

Marshall

Patterson Hanley Cooper Robbo

Fraser McTominay Gilmour Tierney

McGinn Adams

3-5-2 has served it's purpose to get us here but it's not going to get us the result we need. We don't have the quality to go 1-0 up and then defend for 85mins any more. The difference between then and now is we are in a 3 game ko where if you can win your first game you are almost guaranteed to go through. We haven't. But we've got Gilmour now and he can keep hold of the ball while Fraser,  Adams,  Patterson,  Robbo, Tierney and McGinn can go on darting runs causing mayhem with Mings Stones et al and then create the space and opportunities to get clear chances on goal. Fraser,  Adams,  McGinn have proven they can do that and get winning goals. It also means we can take the heat off the defence by giving England so much to think about and Foden,  Sterling,  Grealish and co won't like tracking back all the time,  it's not their game. 

It's daring and not without risk of course but it shows we are brave,  and are willing to risk it with the benefit of youth,  speed,  no fear, energy and perhaps a bit of guile. 

Add the squad togetherness by keeping Marshall in goal and we've maybe got a formula that might just see us past the group stage. 

Half time changes won't work it has to be from the off. 

What do you think?? 

Always prefer a 442 myself. More solid and easier to keep your shape when under pressure. Your team selection is good to although I would keep faith in dykes up front with Adams.

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2 minutes ago, Montrose97 said:

I agree with a lot of what you say. However I'd bite your hand off for a draw because that at least keeps us in the competition. Lose and we're out I reckon. If we 'have a go' I think we stand less than a 10% chance of winning - especially with no real goal threat up front. So, no Gilmour, Patterson or Turnbull for me. 

I agree about Marshall. I'd stick with O'D at right back, 5...yes, 5 in midfield. Forrest, McGinn, McTominay, McGregor and Tierney (or Armstrong if unfit). Adams up front. Good use of subs during the game to keep the energy up. Heavy rain showers predicted, so sapping pitch. 

We need a point more than England need the win, so taking inspiration from Sweden the other day against Spain, shut up shop. Steve Clarke has built his reputation on meticulous planning, now's the time for him to prove it.

Agree to disagree montrose. If we are going out I want us to go out fighting.  Not sitting back and hoping for a breakaway. We should be brave and play gilmour turn ull and Patterson. Sick of watching Scotland play negative football.  

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39 minutes ago, gkm_vancouver said:

Clarke deserves a knighthood for giving the nation hope again and rewarding the TA and especially the older TA with at least the chance to see us in a tournament again. But this is what we need on Friday

Marshall

Patterson Hanley Cooper Robbo

Fraser McTominay Gilmour Tierney

McGinn Adams

3-5-2 has served it's purpose to get us here but it's not going to get us the result we need. We don't have the quality to go 1-0 up and then defend for 85mins any more. The difference between then and now is we are in a 3 game ko where if you can win your first game you are almost guaranteed to go through. We haven't. But we've got Gilmour now and he can keep hold of the ball while Fraser,  Adams,  Patterson,  Robbo, Tierney and McGinn can go on darting runs causing mayhem with Mings Stones et al and then create the space and opportunities to get clear chances on goal. Fraser,  Adams,  McGinn have proven they can do that and get winning goals. It also means we can take the heat off the defence by giving England so much to think about and Foden,  Sterling,  Grealish and co won't like tracking back all the time,  it's not their game. 

It's daring and not without risk of course but it shows we are brave,  and are willing to risk it with the benefit of youth,  speed,  no fear, energy and perhaps a bit of guile. 

Add the squad togetherness by keeping Marshall in goal and we've maybe got a formula that might just see us past the group stage. 

Half time changes won't work it has to be from the off. 

What do you think?? 

I think that team would see us absolutely destroyed. 

We'd get over run in the middle of the park with our 2 vs England's 3. Our full-backs would get isolated and taken advantage of vs Foden/Sterling/Sancho/ whoever plays wide for England. 

I admire your confidence and ambition but I just don't think it'd work at all. 

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I will never agree with playing 1 up front. Negative. Its a wonder Kenny Miller is still alive. Strikers play off each other and a good partnership up front is the way I think works. Dont want to bring rangers in to this but if you look at hately and mcoist. I just don't like the 1 up front formation.

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1 hour ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Agree to disagree montrose. If we are going out I want us to go out fighting.  Not sitting back and hoping for a breakaway. We should be brave and play gilmour turn ull and Patterson. Sick of watching Scotland play negative football.  

Fair points mate. I just don't think we've played negatively in recent games...believe me, I remember Scotland playing negatively!! As I see it, our big problem is converting the chances we create, and there's been plently in recent games. If we can just get something from the England game, however ugly it is, it still leaves us with a fighting chance for the last game. If Czechs beat Croatia, we might not even need to beat them to progress. Fitba, eh...don't you love it!

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We definitely need to change things up after Monday. I have two chains of thought here. If Tierney is fit then stick with the formation that has got us here and the players know well. Going 4-4-2 is a step too far for changing and (at present) does not play to our strengths. You'd be asking Tierney to play midfield for the first time against opponents like England. Not for me. That is not to say I want changes. Bring in Forrest or Patterson at right wing-back and in midfield start Gilmour in place of McTominay or Armstrong. Up front Adams gets the nod ahead of Dykes as he has more quality, offers more mobility and is a better finisher. Line-up:-

                                                                                Gordon

                                                           Cooper         Hanley         Tierney

Forrest or Patterson                                                                                                        Robertson

 

                                               McTominay               Gilmour                 McGinn

 

                                                                             Christie

                                                                              Adams

 

However, I have an increasingly bad feeling that Tierney won't be fit in time and if this is the case we lose a big attacking threat. That being the case we need attacking threats coming from other areas and 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 may well be the answer but we may leave ourselves exposed on the left if Robertson is caught too far forward. With Tierney out I'd go for:-

 

                                                                               Gordon

                                              Patterson        Hanley       Cooper        Robertson

 

                                        Forrest      Gilmour         McTominay            Armstrong   

                                                                        McGinn

                                                                        Adams       

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2 hours ago, Parklife said:

I think that team would see us absolutely destroyed. 

We'd get over run in the middle of the park with our 2 vs England's 3. Our full-backs would get isolated and taken advantage of vs Foden/Sterling/Sancho/ whoever plays wide for England. 

I admire your confidence and ambition but I just don't think it'd work at all. 

Second this. A back four would be another Belgium at home job where superior wide players tore us to shreds.

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2 hours ago, Montrose97 said:

I agree with a lot of what you say. However I'd bite your hand off for a draw because that at least keeps us in the competition. Lose and we're out I reckon. If we 'have a go' I think we stand less than a 10% chance of winning - especially with no real goal threat up front. So, no Gilmour, Patterson or Turnbull for me. 

I agree about Marshall. I'd stick with O'D at right back, 5...yes, 5 in midfield. Forrest, McGinn, McTominay, McGregor and Tierney (or Armstrong if unfit). Adams up front. Good use of subs during the game to keep the energy up. Heavy rain showers predicted, so sapping pitch. 

We need a point more than England need the win, so taking inspiration from Sweden the other day against Spain, shut up shop. Steve Clarke has built his reputation on meticulous planning, now's the time for him to prove it.

Agree totally.

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352 wasn't the problem, it was our lack of ability to score the chances we created plus we made a silly error for the second goal resulting in a goal that rarely ever happens. 

I think we stick with 352, especially against the tougher teams which is what we ae up against now in England and Croatia. 

442 might have been an option against the Czechs but that game has passed now. 

If I was to go for 442 then my team would be

                     Marshall

Patterson Cooper Hendry Robertson

Fraser      mcginn gilmour     Tierney

                 Adams  dykes

Decent team but I think the 352 is better against tougher teams. 

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I think we play 3-5-2 or 3-5-1-1 for a reason, in the main, it suits or personnel. 

I would have maybe changed it on Monday, to 4-2-3-1 given Kieran was injured however if he is fit on Friday I'd go 

                          Marsh

              Cooper Hanley Tierney

Forrest Mctominay McGregor Robertson

                           McGinn

             Dykes                    Adams
 

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1 minute ago, ML1Scott said:

I think we play 3-5-2 or 3-5-1-1 for a reason, in the main, it suits or personnel. 

I would have maybe changed it on Monday, to 4-2-3-1 given Kieran was injured however if he is fit on Friday I'd go 

                          Marsh

              Cooper Hanley Tierney

Forrest Mctominay McGregor Robertson

                           McGinn

             Dykes                    Adams
 

That's the team I wanted to start v the Czechs, obviously swap in Hendry for Tierney as he was injured. I think Clarke really messed up with our starting line up in our first game, hopefully be learns from it. 

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Guest ElChris04

If Clarke is going to continue with a back three after Monday. Id hope it be a 3-4-3. Give us more width with Forrest and Fraser coming in aswell as more cover for the wing backs defensively too. Something like this - 

              Gordon/McLaughlin         
     

      Hanley/Hendry-Cooper-Tierney
 

 Patterson-McTominay-Gilmour-Robertson 

            Forrest-Adams-Fraser 


 

Worth mentioning Schick said after his goals he saw Marshall regularly off his line so was waiting for the opportunity to try punish it and I feel with that alone it’s something we can’t take a risk on and could easily be targeted again by England’s forwards so I’d opt for either Gordon or McLaughlin. 

Edited by ElChris04
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I would be very wary of including Tierney in your sides. I don't like his chances of him making it if we go by reports and words from Clarke. Reports say he returned to 'light' training yesterday which leads me to believe that it is a serious enough injury that they daren't push him physically. Clarke also using terms like 'hopefully' he'll be available does not scream of confidence to me.

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44 minutes ago, ElChris04 said:

If Clarke is going to continue with a back three after Monday. Id hope it be a 3-4-3. Give us more width with Forrest and Fraser coming in aswell as more cover for the wing backs defensively too. Something like this - 

              Gordon/McLaughlin         
     

      Hanley/Hendry-Cooper-Tierney
 

 Patterson-McTominay-Gilmour-Robertson 

            Forrest-Adams-Fraser 


 

Worth mentioning Schick said after his goals he saw Marshall regularly off his line so was waiting for the opportunity to try punish it and I feel with that alone it’s something we can’t take a risk on and could easily be targeted again by England’s forwards so I’d opt for either Gordon or McLaughlin. 

Do you seriously think Marshall is going to stand there again? He's not stupid. In fact, the goal apart he had a good game.

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Guest ElChris04
35 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Do you seriously think Marshall is going to stand there again? He's not stupid. In fact, the goal apart he had a good game.

I’ll admit I could have worded that a bit better so my bad on that part. Marshall is by no means my issue in the team though. 
 

What I forgot to add was for obvious reasons O’Donnell just shouldn’t be starting, I’d like to see Clarke award Patterson a chance and go that little bit more attacking, he or Forrest if he stick with the 3-5-2. 

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