Season 21/22

[vanderark14]

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

I tend to think that the "New Frim" thing of the 80s is a wee bit overstated. IMO, it was Aberdeen that dominated that period and they don't always get the credit they deserve when lumped in as part of the "New Firm"

OK, United won three trophies which was great achievement for them. But for me it was United's European exploits that outshone their domestic record. In that period even a struggling Rangers won more trophies than United.

United had a great record against Celtic in that period but they tended to struggle against Rangers. If Jim McLean had managed to work out how to beat Rangers on a regular basis, I'm sure United would have won more trophies.

In the 80's Celtic were the most successful domestically .Aberdeen got the plaudits because they won in Europe

[vanderark14]

7 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Would you expect Rangers or Celtic to actively take steps to make their own clubs less succesful?

There is 1 club who are to blame for the current and future voting structure in Scottish football. Aberdeen. Everything could and should have changed when Rangers werent in the top flight. 

What could have changed?

I agree with you that Aberdeen should have voted differently but what could have changed? 

[Diamond Scot]

2 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

What could have changed?

I agree with you that Aberdeen should have voted differently but what could have changed? 

My understanding is that the voting structure requires a 10/2 majority for major change. That will never happen with the Old Firm in the league as their interest so closely align.

Voting through a change in voting structure would have allowed the other 10 clubs to change anything they wanted that they could agree on. Now getting them to agree on something is another thing but for example it could have been league size, financial fair play, hone grown player qoutas etc

[vanderark14]

4 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

My understanding is that the voting structure requires a 10/2 majority for major change. That will never happen with the Old Firm in the league as their interest so closely align.

Voting through a change in voting structure would have allowed the other 10 clubs to change anything they wanted that they could agree on. Now getting them to agree on something is another thing but for example it could have been league size, financial fair play, hone grown player qoutas etc

The vote was to change it from 11-1 to 9-3 to bring in big changes. Although this would have been better, I am not convinced 9-3 would work. Scottish clubs are notorious for short term thinking and most believe they can't survive without the OF.

Can you imagine if it went through? lets say 10 clubs voted for a share of gate receipts, The OF would be up in arms, threatening to leave, statements everywhere, tribunals, legal action etc. At least it wouldn't be as dull as the competition itself,.

[aaid]

8 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

 

Can you imagine if it went through? lets say 10 clubs voted for a share of gate receipts, The OF would be up in arms, threatening to leave, statements everywhere, tribunals, legal action etc. At least it wouldn't be as dull as the competition itself,.

And then one of the 10 would claim that their account had been hacked and they didn’t really vote the way they did and wanted to change it and Neil Doncaster would say, on you go, nothing to see here. 

[Diamond Scot]

19 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

The vote was to change it from 11-1 to 9-3 to bring in big changes. Although this would have been better, I am not convinced 9-3 would work. Scottish clubs are notorious for short term thinking and most believe they can't survive without the OF.

Can you imagine if it went through? lets say 10 clubs voted for a share of gate receipts, The OF would be up in arms, threatening to leave, statements everywhere, tribunals, legal action etc. At least it wouldn't be as dull as the competition itself,.

Im not saying it would have been perfect and solved all the problems however I can say with certainty that it was the 1 opportunity to change the status quo.

[Orraloon]

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

In the 80's Celtic were the most successful domestically .Aberdeen got the plaudits because they won in Europe

That depends on which dates you decide to count, I suppose. If you are talking about the whole of the 80s then Rangers won more domestic trophies than either Aberdeen or Celtic.

I usually think of the "New Firm" era as the 7 seasons from 1980 to 1986 inclusive. 

[Squirrelhumper]

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

 

Can you imagine if it went through? lets say 10 clubs voted for a share of gate receipts, The OF would be up in arms, threatening to leave, statements everywhere, tribunals, legal action etc. At least it wouldn't be as dull as the competition itself,.

Sounds perfect. 

[aaid]

11 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

That depends on which dates you decide to count, I suppose. If you are talking about the whole of the 80s then Rangers won more domestic trophies than either Aberdeen or Celtic.

I usually think of the "New Firm" era as the 7 seasons from 1980 to 1986 inclusive. 

I’d forgotten how tight 1982/83 was.  
 

Dundee Utd won the league with 56 points, Celtic 2nd and Aberdeen 3rd on 55 points - two points for a win back then.

In fact if you’d had three points for a win then, the final placings would’ve been the same but all three clubs would’ve been on 80 points with Dundee Utd on top by a single goal.

[vanderark14]

2 hours ago, aaid said:

And then one of the 10 would claim that their account had been hacked and they didn’t really vote the way they did and wanted to change it and Neil Doncaster would say, on you go, nothing to see here. 

🤣

1 hour ago, Orraloon said:

That depends on which dates you decide to count, I suppose. If you are talking about the whole of the 80s then Rangers won more domestic trophies than either Aberdeen or Celtic.

I usually think of the "New Firm" era as the 7 seasons from 1980 to 1986 inclusive. 

I always thought Celtic were more successful in the 80s but Rangers had 6 League Cups which brought the trophy count up a lot. 

 

[vanderark14]

51 minutes ago, aaid said:

I’d forgotten how tight 1982/83 was.  
 

Dundee Utd won the league with 56 points, Celtic 2nd and Aberdeen 3rd on 55 points - two points for a win back then.

In fact if you’d had three points for a win then, the final placings would’ve been the same but all three clubs would’ve been on 80 points with Dundee Utd on top by a single goal.

If only Hearts hadn't bottled it, Scottish football could've had 4 different league winner in one decade

[GHfaeGTA]

38 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

🤣

I always thought Celtic were more successful in the 80s but Rangers had 6 League Cups which brought the trophy count up a lot. 

 

United should have won so much more. Tended to bottle it in cup finals. 4 Scottish cup finals in 80s and lost them all including 3 in 4 years. 2(I think) league cup finals and won 1 as well as countless losing semi finalists in other years in both Scottish and league cups. Probably about another 5 or 6 losing semis. Also lost 91 cup final. We’re close to winning a few league titles but tailed off late on usually due to going far in Europe most years. Qualified for Europe something like 16 years in a row and advanced quite far most years. Not forgetting semi final of European Cup and final of Uefa Cup and the usual losses. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by GHfaeGTA

[RDFH64]

1 hour ago, vanderark14 said:

🤣

I always thought Celtic were more successful in the 80s but Rangers had 6 League Cups which brought the trophy count up a lot. 

 

Don’t count as apparently a diddy cup 😜

[Stu101]

2 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

🤣

I always thought Celtic were more successful in the 80s but Rangers had 6 League Cups which brought the trophy count up a lot. 

 

Surprising that, I'd have said Celtic would have been more succesful over the period. 

[slasher]

5 hours ago, aaid said:

I’d forgotten how tight 1982/83 was.  
 

Dundee Utd won the league with 56 points, Celtic 2nd and Aberdeen 3rd on 55 points - two points for a win back then.

In fact if you’d had three points for a win then, the final placings would’ve been the same but all three clubs would’ve been on 80 points with Dundee Utd on top by a single goal.

I was at Ibrox that day, it was mental, 2-0 down at half time and dead and buried. Then we turned it round to lead 4-2 and there were constant rumours of goals in the United game. Mad to think they were winning the league in a derby whilst we were scrapping away at Ibrox. 

My memory fails me on who the sheep were playing 🤔

[vanderark14]

19 minutes ago, slasher said:

I was at Ibrox that day, it was mental, 2-0 down at half time and dead and buried. Then we turned it round to lead 4-2 and there were constant rumours of goals in the United game. Mad to think they were winning the league in a derby whilst we were scrapping away at Ibrox. 

My memory fails me on who the sheep were playing 🤔

We were busy beating the cream of Europe mate 🤣

[slasher]

8 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

We were busy beating the cream of Europe mate 🤣

Haha, so you were VA. 👍

I had a quick look at Wikipedia there and Aberdeen beat Hibs 5-0 on the final day. 

[vanderark14]

5 minutes ago, slasher said:

Haha, so you were VA. 👍

I had a quick look at Wikipedia there and Aberdeen beat Hibs 5-0 on the final day. 

It's weird just discussing this, hearts, united, celtic, Rangers and aberdeen vying for a league championship in the space of 6 years 

[thplinth]

9 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Would you expect Rangers or Celtic to actively take steps to make their own clubs less succesful?

If in the short term it lead to longer term gains. Of course.

This short sighted mentality is why, in the mid 80's when Scottish football was flying high and English football with all the tragic incidents, hooligan problems, being banned in Europe...and so on, went on to to leave us in its dust. Scottish football was actually poised to take advantage of the mega sky money that was coming much than england at that point.

But our league is fucking boring... theirs is not, and with that long history (but same as us!) it was marketing gold mine.

Now English football is stratospheric money wise and we are eating grass money wise.

Our game has been horrifically mismanaged.

[slasher]

Does anyone know what is happening with VAR? Are they bringing it in this season or nay? 

[Debian]

7 minutes ago, slasher said:

Does anyone know what is happening with VAR? Are they bringing it in this season or nay? 

Next season - will be confirmed post 13th December.

[vanderark14]

45 minutes ago, slasher said:

Does anyone know what is happening with VAR? Are they bringing it in this season or nay? 

VAR will make zero difference in Scotland. It will be the same incompetent fools seeing what they want to see  

[slasher]

51 minutes ago, Debian said:

Next season - will be confirmed post 13th December.

Cheers, I wasn't sure where they were with it. 

13 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

VAR will make zero difference in Scotland. It will be the same incompetent fools seeing what they want to see  

Maybe

[Diamond Scot]

12 hours ago, thplinth said:

If in the short term it lead to longer term gains. Of course.

This short sighted mentality is why, in the mid 80's when Scottish football was flying high and English football with all the tragic incidents, hooligan problems, being banned in Europe...and so on, went on to to leave us in its dust. Scottish football was actually poised to take advantage of the mega sky money that was coming much than england at that point.

But our league is fucking boring... theirs is not, and with that long history (but same as us!) it was marketing gold mine.

Now English football is stratospheric money wise and we are eating grass money wise.

Our game has been horrifically mismanaged.

I completely agree about the mismanagement however if you put yourself in the shoes of an Old Firm director, what are you suggesthing they do. Almost every suggestion would lose them money and potentially weaken their position in terms of success. Yes, that may result in the league being more competitive, more exciting etc but where is that beneficial to the club?

Big clubs in England in early 90s have fallen away in England because of the competitiveness. Your effectively asking Turkeys to vote for Xmas.

The decision should have been taken out of the Old Firms hands but will now never happen again.

 

[dandydunn]

3 hours ago, slasher said:

Does anyone know what is happening with VAR? Are they bringing it in this season or nay? 

There’s a meeting in February, according to the radio on Saturday. 
 

It can’t be brought in for a year as they need to complete a 12 month uefa course in it, that’s non negotiable. 
 

They think it could be ready for the 2nd half of season 22/23, but they can’t possibly change the rules mid season, I can just imagine the uproar when one half of the OF get a goal chalked off and end with a draw. 
 

It’ll be “but they got a goal that won a game in September and that counted, so this has to count too”