1998 v 2021

[mccaughey85]

How does our current squad compare with the last tournament squad we had at wc 98. The 98 squad has a better balance of good players across the positions but we do have at least 1 world class player in this squad, maybe 2 if you count tierney. The 98 squad is a bit stronger imo but this squad is relatively young and could improve in the next 5/6 years and could rival or surpass our 98 squad.

[Tartan blood]

1 minute ago, mccaughey85 said:

How does our current squad compare with the last tournament squad we had at wc 98. The 98 squad has a better balance of good players across the positions but we do have at least 1 world class player in this squad, maybe 2 if you count tierney. The 98 squad is a bit stronger imo but this squad is relatively young and could improve in the next 5/6 years and could rival or surpass our 98 squad.

Good topic of discussion, but it's always a bit unfair comparing current snapshots with player's careers. I've no idea what type of form the 98 players were in at the time or if they were winding down their careers at that point. Which is likely the case for a lot of them based on how few transferred over into the next few squads. 

I'd say Robbo and Tierney are definitely world class. Like James McFadden, McTominay, McGinn and Gordon have been capable of world class performances. Then you have Gilmour, that looks like he may well be world class, with Turnbull and Patterson with incredible potential, too.

So, I think a lot of people might conclude that 98 is better, but with hindsight, that perception could well change when we look back in a few years. If this team develops like I think it will, 2021 is better. We are on the ascendancy, where as 98 was on the descendancy.

[mccaughey85]

1 minute ago, Tartan blood said:

Good topic of discussion, but it's always a bit unfair comparing current snapshots with player's careers. I've no idea what type of form the 98 players were in at the time or if they were winding down their careers at that point. Which is likely the case for a lot of them based on how few transferred over into the next few squads. 

I'd say Robbo and Tierney are definitely world class. Like James McFadden, McTominay, McGinn and Gordon have been capable of world class performances. Then you have Gilmour, that looks like he may well be world class, with Turnbull and Patterson with incredible potential, too.

So, I think a lot of people might conclude that 98 is better, but with hindsight, that perception could well change when we look back in a few years. If this team develops like I think it will, 2021 is better. We are on the ascendancy, where as 98 was on the descendancy.

yeh the 98 squad had loads of guys near the end of their international careers so it was a more experienced squad who had reached their peak around the 94-98 period. This squad if managed correctly should be near the start of a peak period and could be as good as the 98 squad in 4/5 years. For the record i reckon our 96 squad was better than our 98 squad and a good better than our current squad.

[Caledonian Craig]

19 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

How does our current squad compare with the last tournament squad we had at wc 98. The 98 squad has a better balance of good players across the positions but we do have at least 1 world class player in this squad, maybe 2 if you count tierney. The 98 squad is a bit stronger imo but this squad is relatively young and could improve in the next 5/6 years and could rival or surpass our 98 squad.

I compared the squads on an earlier post - just the stats though. The 1998 squad average age was older by just over 2 years per player. The 1998 squad had more international appearance - around 4.5 caps more per player. The 1998 squad also had more international goals to its credit. 

[ParisInAKilt]

Hard to say really. 

Depends on your definition but I don’t think we have any world class players, maybe Robertson but even then I think he’s a very good player in the ideal club for him, not world class. A superb tournament would go some way to changing my mind. 

We’re a defeat against the Czech’s away from being shite again 😂

[Caledonian Craig]

4 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Hard to say really. 

Depends on your definition but I don’t think we have any world class players, maybe Robertson but even then I think he’s a very good player in the ideal club for him, not world class. A superb tournament would go some way to changing my mind. 

We’re a defeat against the Czech’s away from being shite again 😂

Very true.

Whereas, just now, the general views on here only see McGregor and O'Donnell as a weak link if we do not get a result on Monday watch for the posts slating this player and that player.

The only time to truly judge the squad is after the tournament. We could bomb out with three defeats and be dubbed the poorest squad we have had at a major tournament or we could qualify for the last 16 and suddenly people would be ready to acclaim the squad as the greatest. At present we are on a knife edge.

I prefer to be a little more open-minded as this is a tough group for us to get out of as, I do believe, this is the first time we have been the lowest ranked team in the group when we have qualified. 

[Toepoke]

The squads are probably similar in that they combine players from a very high level with experienced journeymen and a few promising youngsters. Darren Jackson and Tosh McKinlay played against Brazil for example.

In both cases we miss a top class international striker, something that can give smaller countries a huge advantage in tournament football. 

 

[mccaughey85]

10 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Hard to say really. 

Depends on your definition but I don’t think we have any world class players, maybe Robertson but even then I think he’s a very good player in the ideal club for him, not world class. A superb tournament would go some way to changing my mind. 

We’re a defeat against the Czech’s away from being shite again 😂

yeh robertson probably just sneaks into the world class bracket, and thats maybe being generous to him. i think tierney could be a bonafide world class player and a game changer of a player. in the next few years we could be looking at 2/3 world class players if gilmour keeps progressing. its just about getting a good standard of player in all positions so that we can qualify for tournaments more often.

[Caledonian Craig]

Having x amount of world class players helps but even with only international class players you can achieve so much more than we have at major tournaments. Having a solid game plan and a well-drilled side with each player knowing what their job is can make up for lack of world class players. We know that by looking at Greece who won the Euros without a world class player. Or look at Wales who had a great run with only Gareth Bale that would fall into the world class category. Or Iceland who made their mark with a squad not exactly rammed with world class players. I am sure there are a lot more examples too. 

[Malcolm]

We don’t really have any internationally capable centre half’s (tierney being counted as a full back) or strikers.  It’s a typical Scotland post 80s team with one or two really good players, international journeymen and a few weak links. I’m not being disparaging using the term journeymen, I mean that in the context of international football... the are all good footballers.

we have nothin in the mould of a sourness, dalglish, law, bremner, mcgrain.  I actually think tierney shows the potential to be that.

[ParisInAKilt]

We definitely have the squad to get out the group, nothing to fear against any of the teams, especially the Czech Republic and 3 points must be the aim, especially when 3rd place might be good enough. 

[Malcolm]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Having x amount of world class players helps but even with only international class players you can achieve so much more than we have at major tournaments. Having a solid game plan and a well-drilled side with each player knowing what their job is can make up for lack of world class players. We know that by looking at Greece who won the Euros without a world class player. Or look at Wales who had a great run with only Gareth Bale that would fall into the world class category. Or Iceland who made their mark with a squad not exactly rammed with world class players. I am sure there are a lot more examples too. 

bale is world class where it counts, in the final third that’s what makes the difference.

[ParisInAKilt]

1 minute ago, Malcolm said:

We don’t really have any internationally capable centre half’s (tierney being counted as a full back) or strikers.  It’s a typical Scotland post 80s team with one or two really good players, international journeymen and a few weak links. I’m not being disparaging using the term journeymen, I mean that in the context of international football... the are all good footballers.

we have nothin in the mould of a sourness, dalglish, law, bremner, mcgrain.  I actually think tierney shows the potential to be that.

Tierney is almost definitely our best player, he could probably slot in for any team at the euros and not make them any worse.

[mccaughey85]

23 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I compared the squads on an earlier post - just the stats though. The 1998 squad average age was older by just over 2 years per player. The 1998 squad had more international appearance - around 4.5 caps more per player. The 1998 squad also had more international goals to its credit. 

i think alot of the key players were near the end in 98, guys like hendry, calderwood, leighton, gallacher,collins. Most of the key players in this squad have a good 6 or 7 years left. plus there are some genuine class young players coming into the squad right now whereas around 98/99 there were wasnt much, maybe just ferguson and weir off the top of my head.

[Caledonian Craig]

2 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

i think alot of the key players were near the end in 98, guys like hendry, calderwood, leighton, gallacher,collins. Most of the key players in this squad have a good 6 or 7 years left. plus there are some genuine class young players coming into the squad right now whereas around 98/99 there were wasnt much, maybe just ferguson and weir off the top of my head.

Yes of course. But that meant that squad had great experience in terms of players that had already been to major tournaments which must be an advantage. This is unchartered waters for our squad here however I think it is a really closely-knit squad - almost club-like atmosphere which is great.

[mccaughey85]

10 minutes ago, Malcolm said:

bale is world class where it counts, in the final third that’s what makes the difference.

a world class attacking player has been lacking in our squads for a long time. it can really make a difference imo

[Tartan blood]

5 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Yes of course. But that meant that squad had great experience in terms of players that had already been to major tournaments which must be an advantage. This is unchartered waters for our squad here however I think it is a really closely-knit squad - almost club-like atmosphere which is great.

That is one of the things I'm most excited about. This doesn't feel like a one off. It feels like the start of something very exciting. We've lifted the curse. Regardless of what others have said, I think our squad is brimming with tournament capable international players. 

So, no matter what happens, going into the world cup qualifiers and beyond we'll be a much better team. No one is dropping out of this squad any time soon due to age, barring maybe Gordon.

[mccaughey85]

21 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

That is one of the things I'm most excited about. This doesn't feel like a one off. It feels like the start of something very exciting. We've lifted the curse. Regardless of what others have said, I think our squad is brimming with tournament capable international players. 

So, no matter what happens, going into the world cup qualifiers and beyond we'll be a much better team. No one is dropping out of this squad any time soon due to age, barring maybe Gordon.

if managed correctly we should be making the next 2 euros. The players are good enough and what with the tournament being 24 teams then there shouldnt be any excuses not to qualify.

[Caledonian Craig]

For me just the fact we are there could mean a heck of a lot. It enhances the game's profile in Scotland and hopefully encourage more kids to take up the sport especially those maybe 5 or 6 years old and creates a strong vein of youngsters coming through further down the line.

The bandwagon is slowly moving out of the garage whose doors had been shut for two decades.

[Tartan blood]

2 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

if managed correctly we should be making the next 2 euros. The players are good enough and what with the tournament being 24 teams then there shouldnt be any excuses not to qualify.

I think we've been hindered by the fact we played some WC qualifiers before the Euros. We'll be much stronger after this tournament, and may live to regret those draws. But I do think qualifying for a World cup is not out of the question.

Also, those saying Robbo isn't world class. I really thought that was no longer a debate. He would be the starting left back for the vast majority of teams at this tournament. I'm not going to list his qualities, because everyone knows them, but he is without a doubt world class. The question should be who else will be added to the list.

[mccaughey85]

4 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I think we've been hindered by the fact we played some WC qualifiers before the Euros. We'll be much stronger after this tournament, and may live to regret those draws. But I do think qualifying for a World cup is not out of the question.

Also, those saying Robbo isn't world class. I really thought that was no longer a debate. He would be the starting left back for the vast majority of teams at this tournament. I'm not going to list his qualities, because everyone knows them, but he is without a doubt world class. The question should be who else will be added to the list.

i would say hes world class but hes defo at the lowest tier of world class and isnt really a game changer of a player. It also depends on what you consider to be world class. My opinion is you have to be in the top 10/15 of your position in the world to be considered world class. i would split the positions into goalkeeper, centrebacks, fullbacks, centre mids, wingers and strikers. so theres usually between 60-90 world class players imo. robertson easily falls within the top 10 fullbacks but most full backs probably fall into the lower end of the world class rankings imo.

[Tartan blood]

13 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

i would say hes world class but hes defo at the lowest tier of world class and isnt really a game changer of a player. It also depends on what you consider to be world class. My opinion is you have to be in the top 10/15 of your position in the world to be considered world class. i would split the positions into goalkeeper, centrebacks, fullbacks, centre mids, wingers and strikers. so theres usually between 60-90 world class players imo. robertson easily falls within the top 10 fullbacks but most full backs probably fall into the lower end of the world class rankings imo.

Way to degrade his world class status: He's world class but not world classy enough to be the world class of world class. 😂 I'm not saying you're wrong, but you are phrasing it like it's a bad thing.

 

[mccaughey85]

1 minute ago, Tartan blood said:

Way to degrade his world class status: He's world class but not world classy enough to be the world class of world class. 😂 I'm not saying you're wrong, but you are phrasing it like it's a bad thing.

 

it is a fact tbf that there are world class players who are much better than other world class players. its one of the things ppl need to take into consideration when judging robertsons performances for us. he isnt a haaland, robben or mbappe. he isnt a game changing player who will provide spectacular moments consistently. hes a quality full back who needs a good team around him to maximise his effectiveness. expectations on him need to be lowered slightly imo.

[scotlad]

In 1998 we had an aging squad, but one where many of the players were still playing regularly at a high level.  We have far better options at left-back now but I think overall we had a better defence in '98.

Up front, in 1998 we had Kevin Gallacher who had scored around 20 goals in the EPL that season and had scored freely for us in the qualifiers, albeit he didn't do much in the final tournament, so compared to now I'd say we were slightly stronger in that department.

I don't think there is much difference in midfield between then and now, although I'd sleep better at night if we had a genuine holding midfielder of the calibre of Paul Lambert in this current squad.

Overall, I think the 1998 squad was a bit better. However, our current squad is appreciably younger, has the potential to improve and we also have other young players coming through (which wasn't the case in the late 90s, bar the odd exception).

[gkm_vancouver]

I think I'll stick my neck out and say that the 2021 squad is better. Very difficult to compare because the 98 squad have finished their playing days and many of the current squad have just started. We haven't kicked a ball yet in this tourney and there are also 3 extra players. 

Comparing all players in each area:- goalies about equal; defence 21 squad slightly better with Robbo/Tierney making the difference; midfield 21 squad slightly better with more playing at a higher level; forwards 98 squad may have the slight edge with Gallacher but none of them scored the 2 goals we got in 98 and I think that there are potentially more players with goals  in them with the 21 squad.