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Taking the knee


kumnio

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7 hours ago, kumnio said:

We aren’t doing it at the Euros. Wonder who will go in a strop over it. 

Quite a lot of people, going by the reaction on Twitter, although often from folk who wouldn't know Stuart Armstrong from Stretch Armstrong.  We didn't kneel before any of our previous games this year, that I can think of anyway, and funnily enough no one was wetting their pants over it then.

If someone wants to kneel, if it means something to him, then let him. If someone doesn't then it doesn't automatically mean they are condoning racism. This conformity to a gesture just misses the point. 

Football can be brilliant at bringing people together but, ironically, the debate around this is driving a wedge between people. 

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Taking the knee has nothing to do with any movements or organisations. 

I actually watched the match when Colin Kaepernick did it for the first time during the American national anthem

Taking the knee is a way of protesting against racial injustice and oppression against Black people. Nothing more.

We all know why England fans boo it. 

And hey, if us taking the knee gets up the nose of the England fans, all the more reason to do it.

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23 minutes ago, scotlad said:

Quite a lot of people, going by the reaction on Twitter, although often from folk who wouldn't know Stuart Armstrong from Stretch Armstrong.  We didn't kneel before any of our previous games this year, that I can think of anyway, and funnily enough no one was wetting their pants over it then.

If someone wants to kneel, if it means something to him, then let him. If someone doesn't then it doesn't automatically mean they are condoning racism. This conformity to a gesture just misses the point. 

Football can be brilliant at bringing people together but, ironically, the debate around this is driving a wedge between people. 

Agreed. 

I personally wouldn’t do it for some of the reasons already mentioned but if a player wants to then that’s fine. 

Players feeling like they have to because of the potential backlash if they don’t doesn’t serve anyone. 

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3 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Agreed. 

I personally wouldn’t do it for some of the reasons already mentioned but if a player wants to then that’s fine. 

Players feeling like they have to because of the potential backlash if they don’t doesn’t serve anyone. 

I’m not entirely sure what these reasons are, though. People are just trying to create grey areas; for what purpose, I don’t know. Can’t we just perform one simple gesture in order to show solidarity? That’s it.  That’s all that’s being asked. You won’t actually be doing anything other than saying, I’m on the side of those who are facing discrimination because of the colour of their skin. Associating it with defacing war memorials now? Wtf?

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I don't know how awkward it might be for McTominay to stand whilst his team mate Rashford kneels after getting racist abuse? Gestures can be important but they can also become meaningless. Given the abuse of players playing for Scottish teams it's a bit surprising they are not thinking of taking a knee. For this tournament at least I would have thought it was a gesture worth taking in support of team mates who have suffered abuse and to highlight a problem that too many people appear to be in denial about.

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27 minutes ago, duncan II said:

I’m not entirely sure what these reasons are, though. People are just trying to create grey areas; for what purpose, I don’t know. Can’t we just perform one simple gesture in order to show solidarity? That’s it.  That’s all that’s being asked. You won’t actually be doing anything other than saying, I’m on the side of those who are facing discrimination because of the colour of their skin. Associating it with defacing war memorials now? Wtf?

Well it’s not for the fans to decide, i guess the SFA have made their decision but like I said individual players should be free to kneel if they want to. 

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48 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Well it’s not for the fans to decide, i guess the SFA have made their decision but like I said individual players should be free to kneel if they want to. 

The way the statement was worded, it's the players that have made the decision.  I can understand if they felt taking a knee had not been a powerful enough message,  but to meekly just stand there at kick off and not construct a gesture of their own to combat racism is heavily flawed in its synthesis. Scotland vs England will be watched by billions and is the perfect opportunity to show that Scotland not only abhors racism, but is a leader in combating it. Sadly, we are now going to look like a herd of cucks,watching on meekly as England at least try to make a gesture.

You'll notice that the gammons on here who delight in the fact we are not taking the knee also don't volunteer a more powerful alternative that we should take because it does not further their agenda.

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12 minutes ago, LeightonsRicketts said:

The way the statement was worded, it's the players that have made the decision.  I can understand if they felt taking a knee had not been a powerful enough message,  but to meekly just stand there at kick off and not construct a gesture of their own to combat racism is heavily flawed in its synthesis. Scotland vs England will be watched by billions and is the perfect opportunity to show that Scotland not only abhors racism, but is a leader in combating it. Sadly, we are now going to look like a herd of cucks,watching on meekly as England at least try to make a gesture.

You'll notice that the gammons on here who delight in the fact we are not taking the knee also don't volunteer a more powerful alternative that we should take because it does not further their agenda.

I doubt billions are watching this and thinking badly of Scotland because they choose not to take a knee but who knows. 

Calling someone a gammon because they hold a different opinion is petty. 

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24 minutes ago, LeightonsRicketts said:

The way the statement was worded, it's the players that have made the decision.  I can understand if they felt taking a knee had not been a powerful enough message,  but to meekly just stand there at kick off and not construct a gesture of their own to combat racism is heavily flawed in its synthesis. Scotland vs England will be watched by billions and is the perfect opportunity to show that Scotland not only abhors racism, but is a leader in combating it. Sadly, we are now going to look like a herd of cucks,watching on meekly as England at least try to make a gesture.

You'll notice that the gammons on here who delight in the fact we are not taking the knee also don't volunteer a more powerful alternative that we should take because it does not further their agenda.

Oh no, there’s another lunatic who can’t read on here. 

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1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said:

I doubt billions are watching this and thinking badly of Scotland because they choose not to take a knee but who knows. 

Calling someone a gammon because they hold a different opinion is petty. 

This is the issue right here. Narcissism and ego. We're not constructing gestures,  be it kneeling or "standing up" in Scotland's case, so people think we are lovely.  It needs to be a direct challenge to a bigoted mindset and a show of support to those who have suffered bigoted abuse. People need to feel uncomfortable so there is change. And it's not just the players. It should be the coaches, the administrators, the fans, the media - anyone who wants to combat racism needs to move from passive whispering to literally demonstrating it won't be tolerated any more.  I'd advocate a player jumping in the stands and lamping someone or throttling the Czech player against Rangers if it would help - as Uefa are hopeless in legislating against it.

 

Calling someone a gammon because they are a gammon is perfectly acceptable. If they are not a gammon, then their feelings won't be hurt. 

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4 minutes ago, LeightonsRicketts said:

This is the issue right here. Narcissism and ego. We're not constructing gestures,  be it kneeling or "standing up" in Scotland's case, so people think we are lovely.  It needs to be a direct challenge to a bigoted mindset and a show of support to those who have suffered bigoted abuse. People need to feel uncomfortable so there is change. And it's not just the players. It should be the coaches, the administrators, the fans, the media - anyone who wants to combat racism needs to move from passive whispering to literally demonstrating it won't be tolerated any more.  I'd advocate a player jumping in the stands and lamping someone or throttling the Czech player against Rangers if it would help - as Uefa are hopeless in legislating against it.

 

Calling someone a gammon because they are a gammon is perfectly acceptable. If they are not a gammon, then their feelings won't be hurt. 

Good luck with that. 

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14 minutes ago, kumnio said:

Oh no, there’s another lunatic who can’t read on here. 

From SFA statement....

The squad, coaching staff and backroom members will stand up to racism ahead of the Group D matches against Czech Republic, England and Croatia.

Andy Robertson, Scotland Men’s National Team captain:

“It is important we continue to tackle the issue of racism and raise awareness of the need to change people’s mindsets but also their behaviours.

“Prior to our World Cup qualifiers in March we spoke as a group and felt that taking a stand was the best way for us to show solidarity and also to reinforce the need for meaningful change in society.”

So I genuinely have no idea why you think I have misinterpreted the statement.  Would be delighted if you enlighten me.

Also, mental health is covered under the Equalities Act 2010, so calling me a lunatic really illuminates your disposition. You'll be moaning about the Pride flag using your favourite colours next. 😘

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17 minutes ago, LeightonsRicketts said:

From SFA statement....

The squad, coaching staff and backroom members will stand up to racism ahead of the Group D matches against Czech Republic, England and Croatia.

Andy Robertson, Scotland Men’s National Team captain:

“It is important we continue to tackle the issue of racism and raise awareness of the need to change people’s mindsets but also their behaviours.

“Prior to our World Cup qualifiers in March we spoke as a group and felt that taking a stand was the best way for us to show solidarity and also to reinforce the need for meaningful change in society.”

So I genuinely have no idea why you think I have misinterpreted the statement.  Would be delighted if you enlighten me.

Also, mental health is covered under the Equalities Act 2010, so calling me a lunatic really illuminates your disposition. You'll be moaning about the Pride flag using your favourite colours next. 😘

What the fuck are you on about you absolute lunatic 😂😂

Away and see a mental health expert, then report my inequality to someone who gives a fuck 👍

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Ha ha ha the major tournaments bring some “interesting” posters out.  Not taking the knee does not make people gammons or racist. I’ve seen some ridiculous posts in my time here, that’s right up there.

as I said it’s an empty gesture when uefa could have banned kudela for two years plus but chose not to.

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I do not see why 'taking the knee' is seen as the ultimate anti-racist message and what it really means apart from a gesture? Look at the cricket. Pre the first test the whole England and New Zealand team wore anti-racism t-shirts and hours late one of the England team (Ollie Robinson) had been found to have posted racist tweets a few years earlier - proof that gestures are meaningless.

If players feel it is relevant and makes a vast difference then take the knee or if a team feels standing up for racism is literally doing just that in standing up with arms linked or something then do that. Neither one is wrong or any more symbolic or powerful or meaningful in my eyes.

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2 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

I doubt billions are watching this and thinking badly of Scotland because they choose not to take a knee but who knows. 

Calling someone a gammon because they hold a different opinion is petty. 

Of course they won't, apart from possibly some pearl-clutching arseholes on social media.  We won't be the only side in the tournament not taking the knee, I'm sure of that.  We haven't performed the gesture at any of our games so far this year and no one complained then.

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I do not see why 'taking the knee' is seen as the ultimate anti-racist message and what it really means apart from a gesture? Look at the cricket. Pre the first test the whole England and New Zealand team wore anti-racism t-shirts and hours late one of the England team (Ollie Robinson) had been found to have posted racist tweets a few years earlier - proof that gestures are meaningless.

If players feel it is relevant and makes a vast difference then take the knee or if a team feels standing up for racism is literally doing just that in standing up with arms linked or something then do that. Neither one is wrong or any more symbolic or powerful or meaningful in my eyes.

Exactly. Unfortunately footballers are still being racially abused, despite this gesture being performed before matches for the best part of a year now, so how effective it has been is debatable in itself.

It's not as if we won't be doing anything - the team will be performing a different gesture that has the same aims. Getting bogged down in the gesture itself misses the point.

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4 hours ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Well it’s not for the fans to decide, i guess the SFA have made their decision but like I said individual players should be free to kneel if they want to. 

It’s the players that have made the decision, not the SFA.

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PS anybody that thinks taking a knee or standing has or will make a difference are wrong.  If anything, it's a way to avoid taking meaningful action in my opinion. 

Also it's lazy to characterise English fans booing as racists. It's the same as Brexit (as somebody on here said) - all the racists are booing, but not all those booing are racist. 

 

 

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