An Eye On Our Euro 2020 Opponents

[Caledonian Craig]

Perspective and facts are what I deal in.

We have Taylor1996 showing a complete disregard of facts and knowledge here. The sort of attitude that cost Scotland dearly in 1978 and in later campaigns by taking teams far too lightly.

Lets have a look at facts here with regards England. They won their qualifying group at a canter by six points hammering the Czech Republic 5-0 on the way. They ended up scoring 37 goals in eight matches making them the most potent attack in the qualifying phase. All stats and facts. We qualified through the back door via a newly created route via play-offs and penalty shoot-outs. Show a bit of realism here eh?

Still not convinced? Harry Kane alone has scored 34 international goals whilst our entire squad can muster 35. Put a value on our squad compared to England's and I shudder to think what the difference would be. And transfer value is made by clubs across Europe so no English bias there like some might like to claim.

I have said it already on here and will say it again. Can we get a result at Wembley? Yes but we'd be relying on us putting in probably our best performance since Faddy's wonder goal give us a win in Paris against France well over a decade ago. We could also be helped by England under-performing. I'd be delighted if that happened but I am experienced enough of a Scotland fan not to dream too much.

I laugh when I hear Taylor1996 trying to talk down an England side whose squad is all playing at the highest level in the strongest league in Europe - and yes it is. Three clubs making the European club competition finals endorses that. At present we have ten players playing in the EPL and some playing in the Championship and majority in the SPL. Clubs buy the best when they can so tell me why so many of our SPL-based players have not been snapped up by EPL clubs? Simply because they don't value them enough above the players they already have. Clubs are in a results business so will only buy what they see will strengthen their squads.

Have a look around (and no not just the English websites) but even from European pundits and you'll all find the respect they have for the England side and far less so for the Scotland side. Of course English bias cheeses us off as its the attitude that comes with it but it is backed up in basis of reality. Our qualification for this tournament may be a one-off (I sincerely hope not) but fans seem to have conveniently forgotten the dreadful campaigns to qualify we have had of late whilst England have cruised through qualification. That says it all about the gulf there is between both nations.

With a great game plan, great performances across the pitch and great fight then of course anything is possible. However, lets not kid ourselves, whatever the result, we still have some way to go before we are on a level we were back in the 1980s and 90s when qualification was the norm.

[ThistleWhistle]

52 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

Despite the fact they came 4th in 2018, they really did overachieve in that tournament. They are a far cry from their contemporary golden generation circa 2004. Peak Owen and Rooney are better than Kane is now. 

I don't quite share your levels of optimisim but I certainly don't fear a skin flaying the way others do.

The draw opened up unbelievably fortuitously for them and it gets swept under the carpet that basically they were beaten as often as they won. Their wins were Panama, a lucky win v Tunisia and a Swedish side who never turned up and were convincingly beaten the three times they played anyone decent.

I think Southgate’s main strength was getting them away from individuals and more into a team but not getting that vibe this time- seems to have slipped back to ‘Golden Generation’ mentality again.

[Caledonian Craig]

Croatia travel to Belgium for a friendly today. A stiff test and it will gives us a good clue what standard the Croats are at now.

[Tartan blood]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Perspective and facts are what I deal in.

We have Taylor1996 showing a complete disregard of facts and knowledge here. The sort of attitude that cost Scotland dearly in 1978 and in later campaigns by taking teams far too lightly.

Lets have a look at facts here with regards England. They won their qualifying group at a canter by six points hammering the Czech Republic 5-0 on the way. They ended up scoring 37 goals in eight matches making them the most potent attack in the qualifying phase. All stats and facts. We qualified through the back door via a newly created route via play-offs and penalty shoot-outs. Show a bit of realism here eh?

Still not convinced? Harry Kane alone has scored 34 international goals whilst our entire squad can muster 35. Put a value on our squad compared to England's and I shudder to think what the difference would be. And transfer value is made by clubs across Europe so no English bias there like some might like to claim.

I have said it already on here and will say it again. Can we get a result at Wembley? Yes but we'd be relying on us putting in probably our best performance since Faddy's wonder goal give us a win in Paris against France well over a decade ago. We could also be helped by England under-performing. I'd be delighted if that happened but I am experienced enough of a Scotland fan not to dream too much.

I laugh when I hear Taylor1996 trying to talk down an England side whose squad is all playing at the highest level in the strongest league in Europe - and yes it is. Three clubs making the European club competition finals endorses that. At present we have ten players playing in the EPL and some playing in the Championship and majority in the SPL. Clubs buy the best when they can so tell me why so many of our SPL-based players have not been snapped up by EPL clubs? Simply because they don't value them enough above the players they already have. Clubs are in a results business so will only buy what they see will strengthen their squads.

Have a look around (and no not just the English websites) but even from European pundits and you'll all find the respect they have for the England side and far less so for the Scotland side. Of course English bias cheeses us off as its the attitude that comes with it but it is backed up in basis of reality. Our qualification for this tournament may be a one-off (I sincerely hope not) but fans seem to have conveniently forgotten the dreadful campaigns to qualify we have had of late whilst England have cruised through qualification. That says it all about the gulf there is between both nations.

With a great game plan, great performances across the pitch and great fight then of course anything is possible. However, lets not kid ourselves, whatever the result, we still have some way to go before we are on a level we were back in the 1980s and 90s when qualification was the norm.

You conveniently disregarded England's beige performance in the Nations league when they weren't playing against MUCH weaker opposition. If you are going to talk facts and figures, use them all. Kane has already played over 50 games for England. None of our strikers have over 10 caps. There is a lot more nuance to statistics that shouldn't be ignored. 

How many English players have been bought by foreign clubs for multimillions? The EPL has a homegrown quota, which immediately makes English players more valuable, in an already overinflated market that is flush with cash.

We have also been "in form" for less than 2 years, with half of that in a pandemic. Recent form counts for a lot. I think Scotland might just surprise you.

Yes, some of us might be underestimating England, but Clarke and the players won't. Plus, England will overhype themselves so much more than we could and do more damage than we would by downplaying their abilities.

[Tartan blood]

1 hour ago, ThistleWhistle said:

The draw opened up unbelievably fortuitously for them and it gets swept under the carpet that basically they were beaten as often as they won. Their wins were Panama, a lucky win v Tunisia and a Swedish side who never turned up and were convincingly beaten the three times they played anyone decent.

I think Southgate’s main strength was getting them away from individuals and more into a team but not getting that vibe this time- seems to have slipped back to ‘Golden Generation’ mentality again.

It's probably the only tournament in their history where they hadn't convinced themselves they were going to win it before a ball was kicked. So they had far less pressure than normal. The bookies already have them as favourites this time...

[Caledonian Craig]

17 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

You conveniently disregarded England's beige performance in the Nations league when they weren't playing against MUCH weaker opposition. If you are going to talk facts and figures, use them all. Kane has already played over 50 games for England. None of our strikers have over 10 caps. There is a lot more nuance to statistics that shouldn't be ignored. 

How many English players have been bought by foreign clubs for multimillions? The EPL has a homegrown quota, which immediately makes English players more valuable, in an already overinflated market that is flush with cash.

We have also been "in form" for less than 2 years, with half of that in a pandemic. Recent form counts for a lot. I think Scotland might just surprise you.

Yes, some of us might be underestimating England, but Clarke and the players won't. Plus, England will overhype themselves so much more than we could and do more damage than we would by downplaying their abilities.

I guarantee you none of our current strikers will reach 35 goals for Scotland. And the English need not go abroad as they are in the toughest league in Europe. Look at the stats for that. All the players playing in the Euros the highest number play in England/EPL. There are over 50 more players in EPL than in the Bundesliga which is the next best represented league. Clubs are in a results business - they don't give a flying f**k about hanging onto English players for the national side's sake so English players at the top clubs are there on merit.

Our 'form' in that time has been patchy - lets not kid ourselves of that. We have had three cracks at Israel and couldn't beat them except in a penalty shoot-out. We should have beaten Austria and didn't and I hope losing our last two Nations League matches do not come back to bite us in the near future. Our 'form' has us on a four game unbeaten run with one win (against Faroe Islands) and three draws so lets be realistic and not get carried away. And I won't be surprised. I am quietly optimistic but realistic about the challenges in front of us.

Too right - a lot here are underestimating England all a bit of false bravado if you ask me. I am sure Clarke will keep our players feet thankfully on the ground and it is why he is the manager and not some on this board. On the overhype side - it is the media that always does that and the fans jump aboard. The team itself doesn't so they won't be offering up help unless they start being sucked in by their own press also.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Caledonian Craig

[Caledonian Craig]

24 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

It's probably the only tournament in their history where they hadn't convinced themselves they were going to win it before a ball was kicked. So they had far less pressure than normal. The bookies already have them as favourites this time...

You do realise how bookmakers' work? They are in the business purely for your money. The odds are based first on form and odds adjust depending on the amount of money placed on teams. The more money bet on them the shorter the odds get as the bookmakers want to lose as little money as possible. They do not sit there and say 'Ooooh England. Ooooh lets make them favourites purely because we want them to win'. Bookmakers have been in business (some of them) for hundreds of years by logically thinking out odds.

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Caledonian Craig

[Tartan blood]

4 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

You do realise how bookmakers' work? They are in the business purely for your money. The odds are based first on form and odds adjust depending on the amount of money placed on teams. The more money bet on them the shorter the odds get as the bookmakers want to lose as little money as possible. They do not sit there and say 'Ooooh England. Ooooh lets make them favourites purely because we want them to win'. Bookmakers have been in business (some of them) for hundreds of years by logically thinking out odds.

 

My point was that it is added pressure, not just from the media and fans. Obviously I know how the bookies work.

[Tartan blood]

4 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I guarantee you none of our current strikers will reach 35 goals for Scotland. And the English need not go abroad as they are in the toughest league in Europe. Look at the stats for that. All the players playing in the Euros the highest number play in England/EPL. There are over 50 more players in EPL than in the Bundesliga which is the next best represented league. Clubs are in a results business - they don't give a flying f**k about hanging onto English players for the national side's sake so English players at the top clubs are there on merit.

Our 'form' in that time has been patchy - lets not kid ourselves of that. We have had three cracks at Israel and couldn't beat them except in a penalty shoot-out. We should have beaten Austria and didn't and I hope losing our last two Nations League matches do not come back to bite us in the near future. Our 'form' has us on a four game unbeaten run with one win (against Faroe Islands) and three draws so lets be realistic and not get carried away. And I won't be surprised. I am quietly optimistic but realistic about the challenges in front of us.

Too right - a lot here are underestimating England all a bit of false bravado if you ask me. I am sure Clarke will keep our players feet thankfully on the ground and it is why he is the manager and not some on this board. On the overhype side - it is the media that always does that and the fans jump aboard. The team itself doesn't so they won't be offering up help unless they start being sucked in by their own press also.

There is literally a rule that English clubs must follow which states they need to have a certain amount of homegrown players. Therefore, there will be huge competition for the best English players amongst them. Thus driving up the price. I know they don't care about improving the national team.

[Taylor1996]

7 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

Despite the fact they came 4th in 2018, they really did overachieve in that tournament. They are a far cry from their contemporary golden generation circa 2004. Peak Owen and Rooney are better than Kane is now. 

I don't quite share your levels of optimisim but I certainly don't fear a skin flaying the way others do.

Totally agree. It seems like the draw was opening up for them and all the big seeds kept getting knocked out, paving their way to an easy route. It was a novelty at first, but it began worrying me...

Yeah. It'll be tight, maybe one goal in it. Hopefully to us.

[Caledonian Craig]

7 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

Despite the fact they came 4th in 2018, they really did overachieve in that tournament. They are a far cry from their contemporary golden generation circa 2004. Peak Owen and Rooney are better than Kane is now. 

I don't quite share your levels of optimisim but I certainly don't fear a skin flaying the way others do.

Jeez I'd have given anything for Scotland just to be there let alone 'overachieve' for 4th.

[Caledonian Craig]

England win 1-0 at home to Romania and kicking off in just over half an hour is Belgium V Croatia.

[Caledonian Craig]

Lukaku scores for Belgium. They lead Croatia 1-0. Belgium look like hot favourites for the Euros. Croatia look good going forward and in possession but defence a bit shaky.

[ThistleWhistle]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

England win 1-0 at home to Romania and kicking off in just over half an hour is Belgium V Croatia.

Booing taking the knee is definitely affecting them negatively. 

[The Black Bra]

Also, seems to be confusing things that he is selecting players he cut from the Euros squad?

[Caledonian Craig]

So Belgium beat Croatia 1-0. The fact the Croats hung in there and kept the result in doubt until the final whistle against the silky Belgians says it all.

Our best chance pf getting a result against them will be to play on the front foot and press them. If we sit back we play to their strengths.

[Bristolhibby]

10 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

You do realise how bookmakers' work? They are in the business purely for your money. The odds are based first on form and odds adjust depending on the amount of money placed on teams. The more money bet on them the shorter the odds get as the bookmakers want to lose as little money as possible. They do not sit there and say 'Ooooh England. Ooooh lets make them favourites purely because we want them to win'. Bookmakers have been in business (some of them) for hundreds of years by logically thinking out odds.

 

Also being English bookmakers skews the odds.

Like you say, most English put some money on their team, bookies limit the exposure by shortening the odds.

Would be interesting to see a cumulative set of odds from bookies across Europe. That would give a true reflection of who the “favourites” are.

 

 

J

[Taylor1996]

42 minutes ago, The Black Bra said:

Also, seems to be confusing things that he is selecting players he cut from the Euros squad?

And not only that, but keeping Henderson and Maguire in the 26. Not to mention Rashford and now Saka is nursing an injury.

It just goes to underline their genuine lack of depth.

Roy Keane is spot on. Are Jordan Henderson and Maguire being kept around as cheerleaders?

They were lucky to beat Austria and they could've easily lost tonight against Romania.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Taylor1996

[ProudScot]

1 hour ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Lukaku scores for Belgium. They lead Croatia 1-0. Belgium look like hot favourites for the Euros. Croatia look good going forward and in possession but defence a bit shaky.

France surely. Their squad is hard to see past as winners tbh

[Caledonian Craig]

4 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

France surely. Their squad is hard to see past as winners tbh

Yes but Belgium will defo be one of the contenders.

[Texas Pete]

31 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

France surely. Their squad is hard to see past as winners tbh

I fancy Belgium to win the tournament. I would say they have an easier group than France and should be able to win their group with a bit to spare whereas France will have stiff competition from Portugal and possible Germany for top spot. Not that Denmark will roll over right enough.

Surely this Belgium team will win something? They are not going to have too many chances before this golden generation start to retire. 

[Caledonian Craig]

10 hours ago, Taylor1996 said:

 

 and they could've easily lost tonight against Romania.

Further evidence you are at it. I reckon you are trying to redeem your shattered reputation here by trying to appeal to people with an anti-English stance.

 And you are living on a different planet saying they could easily have lost to Romania. England won 1-0, hit the post twice and had another penalty saved. They had more shots on goal than Romania. They had more shots on target than Romania. They had greater share of possession. They had better past success than Romania and more corners than Romania. Yet in your deluded world they could easily have lost. You are one seriously deluded individual. 

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Caledonian Craig

[Texas Pete]

2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Further evidence you are at it. I reckon you are trying to redeem your shattered reputation here by trying to appeal to people with an anti-English stance.

 And you are living on a different planet saying they could easily have lost to Romania. England won 1-0, hit the post twice and had another penalty saved. They had more shots on goal than Romania. They had more shots on target than Romania. They had greater share of possession. They had better past success than Romania and more corners than Romania. Yet in your deluded world they could easily have lost. You are one seriously deluded individual. 

 

[Caledonian Craig]

7 minutes ago, Texas Pete said:

Go steady on that popcorn. Save some for the Euros. 🤣

[Third Lanark]

Watched that Belgium-Croatia game. Anyone thinking Modric is past his best is deluded. He was fantastic. In fact he reminded me of Gilmour! Craig is right - our best chance is to press them high; their weakest department is up front with no Mandzucic these days.