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Sad Mindsets of Old


Caledonian Craig

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1 hour ago, scotlad said:

  I didn't know we might have faced Argentina if we had gone through though.

Aye Uruguay played them instead of us and were beaten easily.

They were making a big thing on the English TV that if Scotland got through they might play England in the quarter finals, ignoring an elephant sized Maradona in the room.

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2 hours ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Even with streaming tele's, consoles coming out their lugs and the ability to cocoon themselves in their own world can still imagine players who'd be bored with that even now - for me its a mindset and you couldn't imagine it would be something for example the Germans suffered from.  

It's a good point, especially this year where all the squads need to remain in strict Covid preventative bubbles. The Germans might be worth a bet as they are masters at remaining focused for a full tournament. 

 

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Rough was 3rd choice goalie in 86, would he even have been on the bench for that game? He knew he was never getting a game in 86 and was just along for the ride. He was amazed that he'd even been selected for the squad.

I smell one of his wee stories, here. Who wouldn't want to have the chance to play in the World Cup against Maradona? Sounds like shyte to me.

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10 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

Rough was 3rd choice goalie in 86, would he even have been on the bench for that game? He knew he was never getting a game in 86 and was just along for the ride. He was amazed that he'd even been selected for the squad.

I smell one of his wee stories, here. Who wouldn't want to have the chance to play in the World Cup against Maradona? Sounds like shyte to me.

Why would he make up such vitriolic stuff though and inflammatory? I can't see that he would. Seems a lot was wrong in that Scotland squad as Gordon Strachan's mindset is wrong here in this interview:-

 

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7 hours ago, Toepoke said:

Aye Uruguay played them instead of us and were beaten easily.

They were making a big thing on the English TV that if Scotland got through they might play England in the quarter finals, ignoring an elephant sized Maradona in the room.

Or a Maradona-sized elephant. :)

I'd hate to think of any of our current squad having such a blasé attitude. I suspect, given the way they qualified, that that isn't the case though, thankfully.

7 hours ago, weekevie04 said:

Interesting post, Craig. I didn't know about any of that or the Souness and Ferguson rivalry, but fairly fascinating to read that.

There's a brilliant clip of the legend Ian St John watching that game just like any of us. A true fan and absolute gentleman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUgd2Stcpuo

I knew Fergie and Dalglish had a bit of a rivalry, but not Fergie and Souness.  Although, when you think about it, it shouldn't really be all that surprising! :lol:

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8 hours ago, Orraloon said:

Rough was 3rd choice goalie in 86, would he even have been on the bench for that game? He knew he was never getting a game in 86 and was just along for the ride. He was amazed that he'd even been selected for the squad.

I smell one of his wee stories, here. Who wouldn't want to have the chance to play in the World Cup against Maradona? Sounds like shyte to me.

That's the first I've ever heard that story and find it hard to believe that professional fitba players would basically be wanting OUT of a tournament.  You'd think there would've been more made of it at the time.

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8 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Why would he make up such vitriolic stuff though and inflammatory? I can't see that he would. Seems a lot was wrong in that Scotland squad as Gordon Strachan's mindset is wrong here in this interview:-

 

Strachans a prick, he's the one who said we were genetically inferior to Slovenians and he'll never be forgiven for that.

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Just now, Freeedom said:

Strachans a prick, he's the one who said we were genetically inferior to Slovenians and he'll never be forgiven for that.

To be fair, he was right about why we got knocked out. We weren't good enough, and that includes himself. We were beaten by two teams who were clearly better than us and we failed to beat a bunch of Uruguayan thugs.

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40 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

To be fair, he was right about why we got knocked out. We weren't good enough, and that includes himself. We were beaten by two teams who were clearly better than us and we failed to beat a bunch of Uruguayan thugs.

I was born in 86 so I am too young to remember but if the attitude of some of the players is as described in this thread then no wonder we were shite.

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3 hours ago, Freeedom said:

I was born in 86 so I am too young to remember but if the attitude of some of the players is as described in this thread then no wonder we were shite.

It's a double edged sword, the better players, the bigger the ego. 

In the 90s under Craig Brown we had no superstars* but we had a collective spirit and unity of a club side. I genuinely believe that we might have won Euro 96 if we got through our group. How England beat us, I have no idea.

*Goram, Leighton, Hendry, Collins, McAllister and Lambert were all world class, in my opinion.

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5 hours ago, Taylor1996 said:

It's a double edged sword, the better players, the bigger the ego. 

 

 

No that does not hold up. There were many teams in Mexico and before and after that time who had better players than us without the ego to instigate self-destruction. 

A bad attitude of couldn't care less and bad mentality sums it up better. And this under the guidance of the much revered Sir Alex Ferguson who I question his dedication to the job too. Perhaps that was part of the problem and rubbed off on players? In the Strachan interview above Ferguson called Brown up to offer him the coach's job in Mexico by saying: 'How do you fancy a holiday?' FFS A holiday? Its the biggest football tournament in the world not a holiday.

 

Edited by Caledonian Craig
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22 hours ago, Toepoke said:

It's a good point, especially this year where all the squads need to remain in strict Covid preventative bubbles. The Germans might be worth a bet as they are masters at remaining focused for a full tournament. 

 

Germany lost to North Macedonia in March and Löw has chucked it so I doubt they’ll be winning anything any time soon. 

You can never write them off I suppose but I’ll be surprised if they even get to the semis. 

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4 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

 

No that does not hold up. There were many teams in Mexico and before and after that time who had better players than us without the ego to instigate self-destruction. 

A bad attitude of couldn't care less and bad mentality sums it up better. And this under the guidance of the much revered Sir Alex Ferguson who I question his dedication to the job too. Perhaps that was part of the problem and rubbed off on players? In the Strachan interview above Ferguson called Brown up to offer him the coach's job in Mexico by saying: 'How do you fancy a holiday?' FFS A holiday? Its the biggest football tournament in the world not a holiday.

 

The better the player is, the bigger the ego. Look at Cristiano "I want to take the 5th and last penalty in the shootout because I want to be in the spotlight" Ronaldo or Lionel "I don't care if Barcelona go bankrupt by paying me close to £1m a week, I'm bigger than them" Messi.

It depends on the dynamic. You can get egos that pull their team-mates by the collar and elevate them up, like Roy Keane in the 2002 World Cup. In other cases, egos can clash and it can corrode all around them.

In every way, the enemy within is usually what takes down Scotland.

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22 hours ago, Orraloon said:

I smell one of his wee stories, here. Who wouldn't want to have the chance to play in the World Cup against Maradona? Sounds like shyte to me.

For a guy who makes a living on the after dinner circuit, this is probably a wee nugget of a story to draw interest and get the offers coming in with interest in the national team at its highest in 23 years.

Rough has released a couple of books, and co-hosted a radio show for best part of 8-9 years, and not once felt a need to mention this story until now.

Probably a slight element of truth in it, but he is probably deliberately holding back on a name so the offers to spill the beans at a fans event comes in (with fans coming up to him and saying "it was Charlie/Macca/Coops/Souness wasn't it?")

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46 minutes ago, wanderer said:

For a guy who makes a living on the after dinner circuit, this is probably a wee nugget of a story to draw interest and get the offers coming in with interest in the national team at its highest in 23 years.

Rough has released a couple of books, and co-hosted a radio show for best part of 8-9 years, and not once felt a need to mention this story until now.

Probably a slight element of truth in it, but he is probably deliberately holding back on a name so the offers to spill the beans at a fans event comes in (with fans coming up to him and saying "it was Charlie/Macca/Coops/Souness wasn't it?")

Aye, he will be hoping that the after dinner stuff gets going again soon. He'll just be trying to make sure folk haven't forgotten about him when they start looking to book speakers. 

 

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1 hour ago, Taylor1996 said:

The better the player is, the bigger the ego. Look at Cristiano "I want to take the 5th and last penalty in the shootout because I want to be in the spotlight" Ronaldo or Lionel "I don't care if Barcelona go bankrupt by paying me close to £1m a week, I'm bigger than them" Messi.

It depends on the dynamic. You can get egos that pull their team-mates by the collar and elevate them up, like Roy Keane in the 2002 World Cup. In other cases, egos can clash and it can corrode all around them.

In every way, the enemy within is usually what takes down Scotland.

Roy Keane was sent home from the World Cup in 2002 after having a go at Mick McCarthy.

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12 hours ago, Taylor1996 said:

It's a double edged sword, the better players, the bigger the ego. 

In the 90s under Craig Brown we had no superstars* but we had a collective spirit and unity of a club side. I genuinely believe that we might have won Euro 96 if we got through our group. How England beat us, I have no idea.

*Goram, Leighton, Hendry, Collins, McAllister and Lambert were all world class, in my opinion.

The 90’s were our best decade if you compare the standard of player to our qualification record. Despite all the great players we had in the 60’s, 70’s & 80’s we never qualified for the Euros until the 90’s. We only missed out on World Cup ‘94.

There were only 8 teams in Euro ‘92, if the hosts and holders both qualified automatically that only leaves 6 places up for grabs. I know there were less teams in Europe then but that’s still impressive. In my memory, that’s the best we’ve played in a tournament, we lost two close games against the European and World champions where we played really well then thrashed the CIS. The Germany game was on TV last year during lockdown, we battered them but just couldn’t score & their second goal was a fluke. We were the 5th best team in Europe according to that tournament!

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45 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Nope 

Nope what?

If you disagree that Roy Keane got Ireland to the WC2002, almost singlehandedly, then fine.

As much as we rated Ferguson, Fletcher, etc. None of them did for us what Roy Keane did for Ireland in that qualification campaign.

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2 hours ago, The Black Bra said:

The 90’s were our best decade if you compare the standard of player to our qualification record. Despite all the great players we had in the 60’s, 70’s & 80’s we never qualified for the Euros until the 90’s. We only missed out on World Cup ‘94.

 

Agreed.

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