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The midfield Is the problem


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(If you're the kind of person that hates freedom of speech or people that are opposed by different opinions, not not comment, as it'll just show you up as a snowflake. So, if you want to disagree then fine, but be constructive about the points that I'm making. Personal insults are neither constructive or smart)

Scoring 4 was great, but its the stuff that happened in the middle that put me in a mood. It's good that we collected 3 points, but I'm still not happy with the flow of the match.

When your overlapping center backs (Tierney and McTominay) are are the most creative parts of the team, and the most influential (Tierney: 3 MOTM performances in a row), there's problems.

Dykes and Adams only had two shots in the entire match. One of them Adams just blasted from outside the box, and the one was when he scored a half chance.

I looked at Austria's stats against the Faroes. Austria created 7 "big chances", to our 1. Austria got 20 shots from inside the box. We got 7.

The Faroe Islamds had two glories chances to score (one because Gordon fumbled). Would would the mood be if it endes 4-2?

We keep saying that we're strong in midfield. I don't see it. Umpteen times none of the midfielders dropped off to give the defenders a passing option. Several times our midfielders backed off them, allowing them to shoot or cross.

According to the heat mat, we had the ball down the left channel more often, then the right, and we had the ball in the middle seldom. We have 3 central midfielders and yet we don't dominate the middle? Even against two Faroe Islands midfielders.

That's an indictment on McGinn, McGregor and McLean. And since those three are our best trio (replace Jack with McLean)

Against Faroe Islands we should be dictating the tempo from midfield.

If it wasn't for Tierney's hat trick of assists, it would have only been 1-0. That scenario would've added even more credence to this post.

We ARE making progress. We are harder to beat and score against, and that's down to playing with a trio at the back, but there is a long way to go. The defence has been sorted. Now onto the midfield. 

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Edited by Taylor1996
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This is actually laughable. You do know the reason the ball went down the flanks and not through the middle is because that is exactly the tactics Steve Clarke used. It was by design to play this way.

(If you're the kind of person that hates freedom of speech or people that are opposed by different opinions, not not comment, as it'll just show you up as a snowflake. So, if you want to disagree then

Sarcasm? As this part was fun to read "The role of the two central midfielders wasn't to create, it was to protect" Yes. The midfield was at fault for all of our three goals and yet their ma

McGregor is the enigma. He has a decent record of scoring at club level but for us he looks lost. He certainly cannot provide defensive cover, so apart from being hard working and always being available to take the ball, what does he bring? Gilmour is just waiting to take his slot IMO. Also his omission would create a space for Turnbull, maybe even Gauld. As things stand, I expect Clarke to keep him just for his experience.

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2 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

McGregor is the enigma. He has a decent record of scoring at club level but for us he looks lost. He certainly cannot provide defensive cover, so apart from being hard working and always being available to take the ball, what does he bring? Gilmour is just waiting to take his slot IMO. Also his omission would create a space for Turnbull, maybe even Gauld. As things stand, I expect Clarke to keep him just for his experience.

It's just frustrating to me.

Maybe the comfort zone of the SPL is blinding us on how McGregor. McLean is a Championship player. McGinn gets a pass, with his goals.

I'm not even sure what the solution is. McTominay, Gilmour and McGinn? If it is, chances are, we wont see Gilmour for maybe a few years. I don't think Clarke will play a player who isn't a first teamer.

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27 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

(If you're the kind of person that hates freedom of speech or people that are opposed by different opinions, not not comment, as it'll just show you up as a snowflake. So, if you want to disagree then fine, but be constructive about the points that I'm making. Personal insults are neither constructive or smart)

Scoring 4 was great, but its the stuff that happened in the middle that put me in a mood. It's good that we collected 3 points, but I'm still not happy with the flow of the match.

When your overlapping center backs (Tierney and McTominay) are are the most creative parts of the team, and the most influential (Tierney: 3 MOTM performances in a row), there's problems.

Dykes and Adams only had two shots in the entire match. One of them Adams just blasted from outside the box, and the one was when he scored a half chance.

I looked at Austria's stats against the Faroes. Austria created 7 "big chances", to our 1. Austria got 20 shots from inside the box. We got 7.

The Faroe Islamds had two glories chances to score (one because Gordon fumbled). Would would the mood be if it endes 4-2?

We keep saying that we're strong in midfield. I don't see it. Umpteen times none of the midfielders dropped off to give the defenders a passing option. Several times our midfielders backed off them, allowing them to shoot or cross.

According to the heat mat, we had the ball down the left channel more often, then the right, and we had the ball in the middle seldom. We have 3 central midfielders and yet we don't dominate the middle? Even against two Faroe Islands midfielders.

That's an indictment on McGinn, McGregor and McLean. And since those three are our best trio (replace Jack with McLean)

Against Faroe Islands we should be dictating the tempo from midfield.

If it wasn't for Tierney's hat trick of assists, it would have only been 1-0. That scenario would've added even more credence to this post.

We ARE making progress. We are harder to beat and score against, and that's down to playing with a trio at the back, but there is a long way to go. The defence has been sorted. Now onto the midfield. 

(Trolls will be ignored. If you (Trolls) must, leave an emoji.. not that you (Trolls) need an invitation. 2nd most popular TAMBer! Yay!)

This is actually laughable. You do know the reason the ball went down the flanks and not through the middle is because that is exactly the tactics Steve Clarke used. It was by design to play this way. We adopted these tactics and we won 4 nil!! Have you ever seen Sheffield United play? We have basically adopted their tactics on our left hand side. We create overloads on that side to create chances. The role of the two central midfielders wasn't to create, it was to protect and recycle possession. They were there, McLean mainly as defensive cover to allow Tierney to bomb on. The other two, McGregors job was to provide defensive cover but also just keep the ball ticking over when in possession, recycle it, so others can spread the play. McGinns job was never to be involved in the play, his job was to get on the end of the build up play and arrive in the box when the crosses came in. Honestly open your eyes. Adams and Dykes never got as many shots because others got on the end of the crosses instead of them! 

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And also by Adams and Dykes being in the box it occupies defenders allowing space for others. I honestly don't know how you can't see what we were doing last night and that what we were doing worked! What a ridiculous post regarding the midfield not being creative and getting on the ball last night, it wasn't their job to thread balls through to Adams and Dykes so they could score, that was never the plan

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And the even stranger thing is that we usually play a double-pivot. Their main job is to give the defenders an outlet.

I saw none of that last night. 

Personally, I don't care that Gilmour isn't playing first team football. Even if he is playing u23 football/ it's still on par with the SPL.

Gilmour has to be in. 

I don't trust many of our central midfielders, especially after this last  batch of matches.

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It does seem like we are trying to complete a jigsaw puzzle without all of the pieces. The squad is taking shape and it is looking better and stronger as time goes on. But we are missing some vital pieces. Hopefully over the next year or two some of these issues will be resolved by the emergence of players like Gilmour, Paterson, Turnbull etc. I don’t think we will be the “finished article” for a few years, and I think we need to be patient and probably look at the next Euro’s and World Cup qualifiers as the time when this squad / team will be at its best.

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1 minute ago, Scot1 said:

It does seem like we are trying to complete a jigsaw puzzle without all of the pieces. The squad is taking shape and it is looking better and stronger as time goes on. But we are missing some vital pieces. Hopefully over the next year or two some of these issues will be resolved by the emergence of players like Gilmour, Paterson, Turnbull etc. I don’t think we will be the “finished article” for a few years, and I think we need to be patient and probably look at the next Euro’s and World Cup qualifiers as the time when this squad / team will be at its best.

Agreed.

We are improving and it's great to see us being hard to beat and harder to score against.

But yeah, the next thing for Clarke to fix is the midfield. I'm not even sure if the majority of the midfielders are international class.... but I have my suspicions.

Work in progress, though.

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31 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

It's just frustrating to me.

Maybe the comfort zone of the SPL is blinding us on how McGregor. McLean is a Championship player. McGinn gets a pass, with his goals.

I'm not even sure what the solution is. McTominay, Gilmour and McGinn? If it is, chances are, we wont see Gilmour for maybe a few years. I don't think Clarke will play a player who isn't a first teamer.

I would love to see McTom., Gilmour and McGinn in the centre flanked by Patterson and RobboTierney, but Clarke is putting team-building and experience as his foundation instead of what might be our potentially best selection. Time will tell if his judgement is right. A bit like the Michae O'Neill approach which served NI well.

Shame that Patterson blotted his copybook with the Covid situation as he would bring IMO something like what Tierney brings on the right side.

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Just now, Taylor1996 said:

Agreed.

We are improving and it's great to see us being hard to beat and harder to score against.

But yeah, the next thing for Clarke to fix is the midfield. I'm not even sure if the majority of the midfielders are international class.... but I have my suspicions.

Work in progress, though.

I’d certainly try Tierney in midfield in the friendlies before the Euros, it could well be that midfield would be the best position in a Scotland strip

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Just now, Scot1 said:

I’d certainly try Tierney in midfield in the friendlies before the Euros, it could well be that midfield would be the best position in a Scotland strip

Yeah. That's what I want, too.

He could play anywhere, for any club.

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3 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

I would love to see McTom., Gilmour and McGinn in the centre flanked by Patterson and RobboTierney, but Clarke is putting team-building and experience as his foundation instead of what might be our potentially best selection. Time will tell if his judgement is right. A bit like the Michae O'Neill approach which served NI well.

Shame that Patterson blotted his copybook with the Covid situation as he would bring IMO something like what Tierney brings on the right side.

Yeah. I hope it's the endgame, though. I know that he's showing loyalty but there no reason not to call up Gilmour, Turnbull and Gauld.. or even one of them.

It was, but I'm reserving judgement on Patterson.

I actually though Fraser did ok.

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6 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

Yeah. That's what I want, too.

He could play anywhere, for any club.

I’d would be interesting to see how he’d get on in midfield, given a few games to adjust. He has the drive to push the team forward from the middle of the park, which I feel is something we miss in our central midfielders at present

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8 minutes ago, prideothenorth said:

Been saying for ages to get Tierney further forward. 

I’d like to see it, he is a grafter and has the technical abilities to do a job in the middle of the park. I’d happily sacrifice the Tierney/Robertson partnership down the left if he can stabilise and balance our midfield 

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Thinking about it, in my opinion it’s the Centre Halves that are the biggest concern. If we could play with a back 4 against decent teams and still be hard to beat we’d be able to field a very decent team. 
for example in a 4-3-3

Paterson. ?    ?    Robertson

Mctominay Gilmour Tierney

Turnbull. Dykes/Adams McGinn

looks pretty decent to me

you could have Fraser there instead of Turnbull. 

Edited by Scot1
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5 minutes ago, Scot1 said:

Thinking about it, in my opinion it’s the Centre Halves that are the biggest concern. If we could play with a back 4 against decent teams and still be hard to beat we’d be able to field a very decent team. 
for example in a 4-3-3

Paterson. ?    ?    Robertson

Mctominay Gilmour Tierney

Turnbull. Dykes/Adams McGinn

looks pretty decent to me

you could have Fraser there instead of Turnbull. 

You're stating the obvious. Paterson isn't ready yet, so right back is also part of the obvious issue, as is the lack of a half decent striker. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Scot1 said:

Thinking about it, in my opinion it’s the Centre Halves that are the biggest concern. If we could play with a back 4 against decent teams and still be hard to beat we’d be able to field a very decent team. 
for example in a 4-3-3

Paterson. ?    ?    Robertson

Mctominay Gilmour Tierney

Turnbull. Dykes/Adams McGinn

looks pretty decent to me

The centerbacks used to be the concern. That's why we switched to a back three. Now we're harder to beat and to score again.

2 of the goals against Austria were avoidable. We gave them space in midfield.

The goal we conceded to israel was the same

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12259721/israel-1-1-scotland

Edited by Taylor1996
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1 hour ago, bazmidd said:

This is actually laughable. You do know the reason the ball went down the flanks and not through the middle is because that is exactly the tactics Steve Clarke used. It was by design to play this way. We adopted these tactics and we won 4 nil!! Have you ever seen Sheffield United play? We have basically adopted their tactics on our left hand side. We create overloads on that side to create chances. The role of the two central midfielders wasn't to create, it was to protect and recycle possession. They were there, McLean mainly as defensive cover to allow Tierney to bomb on. The other two, McGregors job was to provide defensive cover but also just keep the ball ticking over when in possession, recycle it, so others can spread the play. McGinns job was never to be involved in the play, his job was to get on the end of the build up play and arrive in the box when the crosses came in. Honestly open your eyes. Adams and Dykes never got as many shots because others got on the end of the crosses instead of them! 

Brilliant!

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, breeks_mctavish said:

Brilliant!

Sarcasm?

As this part was fun to read "The role of the two central midfielders wasn't to create, it was to protect"

Yes. The midfield was at fault for all of our three goals and yet their main job was to protect. That cemented my point.

Edited by Taylor1996
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15 minutes ago, killiefaetheferry said:

You're stating the obvious. Paterson isn't ready yet, so right back is also part of the obvious issue, as is the lack of a half decent striker. 

I’m looking at a couple of years down the line, when Paterson and Gilmour and Turnbull will hopefully be ready. Perhaps by then Nisbet will be playing at a higher level and will be the clear no 1 centre forward. As far as stating the obvious, I believe it was initially Taylor1996 who wanted Robertson in central midfield citing the Germans who moved their fullback into central midfield. I initially disagreed, and then after thinking about it, I said to Taylor, you’ve got the wrong fullback, this was months ago and I don’t remember anyone else wanting Tierney in central midfield. A few had suggested playing him in front of Robertson, wide left midfield. Don’t remember anyone else saying six months ago Tierney should be in the middle of the park. 

Edited by Scot1
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13 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

The centerbacks used to be the concern. That's why we switched to a back three. Now we're harder to beat and to score again.

2 of the goals against Austria were avoidable. We gave them space in midfield.

The goal we conceded to israel was the same

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/12259721/israel-1-1-scotland

There’s a strong argument that we wouldn’t have conceded those goals with a back four, as the extra man in midfield would likely mean the ball would have been closed down. 

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1 minute ago, Scot1 said:

I’m looking at a couple of years down the line, when Paterson and Gilmour and Turnbull will hopefully be ready. Perhaps by then Nisbet will be playing at a higher level and will be the clear no 1 centre forward. As far as stating the obvious, I believe it was initially Taylor1996 who wanted Robertson in central midfield citing the Germans who moved their fullback into central midfield. I initially disagreed, and then after thinking about it, I said to Taylor, you’ve got the wrong fullback, this was months ago and I don’t remember anyone else wanting Tierney in central midfield. A few had suggested playing him in front of Robertson, wide left midfield. Don’t remember anyone else saying six months ago Tierney should be in the middle of the park. 

I did, for what it’s worth. 

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5 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

There’s a strong argument that we wouldn’t have conceded those goals with a back four, as the extra man in midfield would likely mean the ball would have been closed down. 

But we're supposed to have three central midfielders as it is.

Look at the links I posted. To happen three times is absolutely incredible. 

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