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Why the gloom?


Big Ramy 1314

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55 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

lets be honest not many managers wanted the job before it was given to clarke. its probably a slightly more attractive job now but you are kidding yourself if you think a higher calibre manager than clarke is taking the job. i think its strange how scotland fans have big expectations and are going into meltdown over two results that actually arent that bad.

This is a lazy cliched assessment that gets trotted out time and time again by our lazy, jobs for the boys, managerial old pal's act pundits. "Who would take the job?" 

If looking within the immediate sphere of Scottish football then there is probably no one better. If an organisation like the SFA can't chart suitable promising candidates across world football, like other organisations can, and only seem to consider obvious managerial options when needs must, then like the pundits, we get the football association we thoroughly deserve. 

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2 minutes ago, Return of Yermaw said:

This is a lazy cliched assessment that gets trotted out time and time again by our lazy, jobs for the boys, managerial old pal's act pundits. "Who would take the job?" 

If looking within the immediate sphere of Scottish football then there is probably no one better. If an organisation like the SFA can't chart suitable promising candidates across world football, like other organisations can, and only seem to consider obvious managerial options when needs must, then like the pundits, we get the football association we thoroughly deserve. 

sorry but you are deluding yourself if you think significantly higher calibre managers than clarke are taking the job. the moneys not good enough and many managers understand the limitations of the squad compared to the expectations of fans like yourself.

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40 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

i aint saying we are lucky to have clarke but the evidence is clear that top class or even half decent managers wont take the scotland job. that is easy to see by the list of guys we have had manage us over the last 20 years. we dont offer enough money and alot of managers wont take the job as its a tough gig. its no coincidence that guys like walter smith and mcleish jump ship as soon a semi decent offer comes in. its amazing the expectations guys like yourself have. we have qualified for our first tournament in 22 years and now you think clarke should go because we played average/poor against teams of similar standard to us.

What unrealistic expectations do guys like me have?

Israel played the same way in the previous 5 games against us, yet we stood off and allowed them yet again. That’s somehow acceptable apparently, and we have to say well done Clarke for changing after their inevitable goal. 

The Scottish mentality of accepting and encouraging failure is pathetic. 

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5 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

sorry but you are deluding yourself if you think significantly higher calibre managers than clarke are taking the job. the moneys not good enough and many managers understand the limitations of the squad compared to the expectations of fans like yourself.

A team that after 18 games with the manager is confident and one that seeks to win games built around talented players like McTominay, Robertson, Cooper, Tierney, Armstrong, McGregor, Fraser, Christie and Adams - not one that is ultra cautious and defensive from the outset? Yes, those are crazy expectations that no manager of greater ability to Clarke would come anywhere near. Honestly....

If you don't think that with the players we have and with the time Clarke has had, we should be significantly better than what we are then fair enough. But please don't say that looking for progress in such circumstances is unrealistic and no  manager better than Clarke would be interested or be able improve on what we are currently seeing. That is nonsensical. 

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Just now, kumnio said:

What unrealistic expectations do guys like me have?

Israel played the same way in the previous 5 games against us, yet we stood off and allowed them yet again. That’s somehow acceptable apparently, and we have to say well done Clarke for changing after their inevitable goal. 

The Scottish mentality of accepting and encouraging failure is pathetic. 

well an away draw to israel is hardly a sacking offence. he has just got us to a major tournament. what more do you want?

we dont have a strong enough squad for the world cup. very few teams of our standard make it out of european qualification. what we need to do is improve our performances and try and get 2nd place which is still within our reach. 

i will be happy if we go to the next euros and i would be happy with 2nd place in this group but would accept 3rd as long as we get to the next euros. any scotland fan expecting more than this is deluding themselves.

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4 minutes ago, kumnio said:

What unrealistic expectations do guys like me have?

Israel played the same way in the previous 5 games against us, yet we stood off and allowed them yet again. That’s somehow acceptable apparently, and we have to say well done Clarke for changing after their inevitable goal. 

The Scottish mentality of accepting and encouraging failure is pathetic. 

but but two drawn knock out games won on penalties means that Clarke cannot be criticised....if you are looking for more than that then you are deluded. 

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1 minute ago, mccaughey85 said:

well an away draw to israel is hardly a sacking offence. he has just got us to a major tournament. what more do you want?

we dont have a strong enough squad for the world cup. very few teams of our standard make it out of european qualification. what we need to do is improve our performances and try and get 2nd place which is still within our reach. 

i will be happy if we go to the next euros and i would be happy with 2nd place in this group but would accept 3rd as long as we get to the next euros. any scotland fan expecting more than this is deluding themselves.

Either you’re at it, or are so down beaten that you have no idea of what’s acceptable.

Clarkes negativity cost us a World Cup Playoff spot, and has cost us any chance in the group. 

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4 minutes ago, Return of Yermaw said:

A team that after 18 games with the manager is confident and one that seeks to win games built around talented players like McTominay, Robertson, Cooper, Tierney, Armstrong, McGregor, Fraser, Christie and Adams - not one that is ultra cautious and defensive from the outset? Yes, those are crazy expectations that no manager of greater ability to Clarke would come anywhere near. Honestly....

If you don't think that with the players we have and with the time Clarke has had, we should be significantly better than what we are then fair enough. But please don't say that looking for progress in such circumstances is unrealistic and no  manager better than Clarke would be interested or be able improve on what we are currently seeing. That is nonsensical. 

he got us to a major tournament what more do you want? you think a squad of our standard should be going to the world cup when very few similar standard squads ever make it. your living in fantasy land. our results could be slightly better but its unrealistic to expect much more. also the facts are there in front of you regarding managers, guys like mcleish and walter smith jump as soon as a decent offer comes along. we only get managers that are down and out who want to rebuild their career.

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2 minutes ago, kumnio said:

Either you’re at it, or are so down beaten that you have no idea of what’s acceptable.

Clarkes negativity cost us a World Cup Playoff spot, and has cost us any chance in the group. 

have a look at the sides that have qualified from europe at the last few world cups and you will find maybe 1 or 2 who have similar or worse squads than us. these are just the cold facts buddy.

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It’s not drawing with Israel, it’s the manner of the performance and negative tactics. 

I’m not saying sack Clarke etc, it is what it is but nobody in their right mind can watch that performance and be happy with how we played. 

As return of yermaw says, this is a manager who’s been in the job for many games and we looked like a team who didn’t have a clue what was being asked of them first half. 

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6 minutes ago, Return of Yermaw said:

but but two drawn knock out games won on penalties means that Clarke cannot be criticised....if you are looking for more than that then you are deluded. 

you think we have a squad fit for the world cup, take a look at the european teams in the past few world cups and you will soon find you are deluding yourself. its a long shot for scotland to make it no matter whos managing us.

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1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said:

It’s not drawing with Israel, it’s the manner of the performance and negative tactics. 

I’m not saying sack Clarke etc, it is what it is but nobody in their right mind can watch that performance and be happy with how we played. 

As return of yermaw says, this is a manager who’s been in the job for many games and we looked like a team who didn’t have a clue what was being asked of them first half. 

so you want to change manager?

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Just now, mccaughey85 said:

he got us to a major tournament what more do you want? you think a squad of our standard should be going to the world cup when very few similar standard squads ever make it. your living in fantasy land. our results could be slightly better but its unrealistic to expect much more. also the facts are there in front of you regarding managers, guys like mcleish and walter smith jump as soon as a decent offer comes along. we only get managers that are down and out who want to rebuild their career.

he oversaw two draws - that is the great achievement you are constantly referring to. 

You misunderstand. I am saying that a squad of our standard should not be playing so poorly and defensively in our second World Cup qualifier under a manager who has had 18 games to work with them. Particularly against a team ranked 30 odd places lower than us who we know inside out. 

You are solely focusing on results "that should be slightly better". I am talking about performances. There is a big difference and you need to deferentiate between the two if you are going to try and continue to argue your point 

Your point about McLiesh and Smith is completely irrelevant and nothing to do with"facts" or what we are talking about.

In any case I'll leave it here now as we are just going round in circles. 

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1 minute ago, mccaughey85 said:

so you want to change manager?

It would depend on who we could replace him with, he’s limited and that’s self evident by the performances but I don’t necessarily want him sacked without someone better coming in. 

Look I’m not saying we should be qualifying for the World Cup, it’s not easy for a team like us but we’re not playing as well as we should be. 

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5 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

have a look at the sides that have qualified from europe at the last few world cups and you will find maybe 1 or 2 who have similar or worse squads than us. these are just the cold facts buddy.

With all due respect, what the hell has any of that got to do with our performances against Austria and Israel?

You are trying to compare Apples and Combine Harvesters. 

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1 minute ago, kumnio said:

With all due respect, what the hell has any of that got to do with our performances against Austria and Israel?

You are trying to compare Apples and Combine Harvesters. 

well you seem to think that we should be beating austria and israel comfortably and we should be competing to win the group. squads that are our standard dont dominate similar level teams. we are not a top nation so drawing against austria and israel away isnt terrible results. we need to pick up the performances no doubt about that but if you think that we will be blowing away austria or israel under another manager then you are kidding yourself.

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2 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

well you seem to think that we should be beating austria and israel comfortably and we should be competing to win the group. squads that are our standard dont dominate similar level teams. we are not a top nation so drawing against austria and israel away isnt terrible results. we need to pick up the performances no doubt about that but if you think that we will be blowing away austria or israel under another manager then you are kidding yourself.

I will genuinely send you a grand if you can back up that first sentence. That’s utter hyperbole from someone spouting nonsense. 

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2 minutes ago, kumnio said:

I will genuinely send you a grand if you can back up that first sentence. That’s utter hyperbole from someone spouting nonsense. 

results are all that matters, you expected us to win those first two games and compete for 1st? do you want clarke sacked?

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1 minute ago, mccaughey85 said:

results are all that matters, you expected us to win those first two games and compete for 1st? do you want clarke sacked?

I will send you a second grand if you can back up where I said I expected us to win both those games. 

You need to visit an optician, because you’re seeing stuff that isn’t there. 

I hope you’ve got a JCB with the size of hole you’re digging here. 

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For absolute clarity, I will put this in simple text. 

I expect us to try and win games, something that hasn’t happened since Serbia. Clarke does not try to compete, he tries to contain, and that is nowhere near good enough. 

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1 minute ago, kumnio said:

I will send you a second grand if you can back up where I said I expected us to win both those games. 

You need to visit an optician, because you’re seeing stuff that isn’t there. 

I hope you’ve got a JCB with the size of hole you’re digging here. 

well i just asked you what you expected and you never answered. did you expect us to win both those games and do you think we should be competing for 1st? do you think clarke should be sacked?

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1 minute ago, mccaughey85 said:

well i just asked you what you expected and you never answered. did you expect us to win both those games and do you think we should be competing for 1st? do you think clarke should be sacked?

Yeah, that’s not how it read.

No, potentially and undecided. 

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1 minute ago, ParisInAKilt said:

In that case Clarke’s win % is worse than McLeish’s second spell, Levein and Strachan 

CD715D10-B11D-439D-A79F-6532B7977962.png

win percentages are all very good but its getting to tournaments that matter and clarke has just achieved that and we now have scotland fans having tantrums because we only managed draws with 2 teams around our standard.

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