Israel V Scotland

[mccaughey85]

9 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

The tactics were dead wrong. Credit where it's due, Clarke changed it at half time. 

But it wasn't just that. Far too many of our big players didn't perform.

McGinn - By far his worst game for us

McTominay - tried hard but so many things didn't come off for him. 

Robertson - what is going on with his crossing?

Marshall - he'd have saved that shot in November

McGregor - I really dont understand why he plays 60 games a year

Tierney and Fraser continued to perform well in a Scotland jersey. Both very rarely let us down when fit and avaliable. I think we should be building a system around them. 

 

i thought fraser played well, guy looks a class above most of  our other players.

[RDFH64]

38 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

Yes exactly and that was always going to be required. Let's say we win every other game but draw in austria and lose in belgium. That would give us 21 points.  That is achievable definitely. We are still unbeaten. C'mon guys thank fuk our players dont think like most on here. I never wanted clarke but I just hope he sees the need for every camp we need fresh impetus. Gilmour and turnbull would have provided it. Loyalty while needed cant be only reason for inclusion.

When did Belgium parachute into our group 🤔

Edited March 29, 2021 by RDFH64

[gaz7]

1 hour ago, RDFH64 said:

When did Belgium parachute into our group 🤔

lol apologies Denmark

[gaz7]

2 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

For whatever reason we are incapable of playing a 3-4-3 or  5-3-2 without conceding the midfield to the opposition and inviting pressure. It is also leading to indecision at the back and a complete failure to threaten the opposition goal. Let’s get back to a 4-5-1.

Hanley and McKenna would be solid enough, as long as we produced further up the field. We have good players. 

I agree with re the 343 352 or whatever but imo it is down to the fact we do not have players in the team who want or are good enough  to keep the ball. mctominay mcginn christie armstrong etc are all get it and go fast or pass it to players who can do something with it they dont look for it back and keep it . I feel like a broken record here but gilmour and turnbull pass the ball and are always looking for it back which lets pressure build up. They need in now and when added to all our good players we have a team. Im fed up of hearing gilmour is not in chelsea team. Every single game he has played for the 1st team he has been man of the match and some of them against top teams in England. Get the bench warmers out and these boys in.

[bazmidd]

2 hours ago, killiefaetheferry said:

Only if Jack and McGregor were sitting in front of the 4. 

 

2 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

For whatever reason we are incapable of playing a 3-4-3 or  5-3-2 without conceding the midfield to the opposition and inviting pressure. It is also leading to indecision at the back and a complete failure to threaten the opposition goal. Let’s get back to a 4-5-1.

Hanley and McKenna would be solid enough, as long as we produced further up the field. We have good players. 

If we play the box in midfield like we did last night it basically leaves two midfielders against 5 in this case v Israel because they pushed our wingbacks so far back. We should play with a flat 3. Gilmour at the base dictating play and McGinn and McTominay box to box. That gives us 3 in there at all times with licence to support the strikers.  I personally hate 3-4-3 with the box shape, our players just don't even know how to play it, the movements are all wrong players running into the same spaces we create no passing gaps and the two attacking mids leave our Midfield two isolated

[Tartan blood]

1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

i thought fraser played well, guy looks a class above most of  our other players.

He did, and I feel like I say something similar every time he plays. He is our best attacking midfielder. On his day, Christie isn't far behind. Playing a back 5 against a team like Israel is just wasting all of our attacking talent. What's the point in having these players if we aren't going to use them. 

Playing a back 5 will be perfect when we are up against elite teams that will hem us in and we have to hit them on the counter, but it just doesn't work against anyone else. It's too reliant on creativity from the wing backs, who will then be putting crosses into packed defences. It also means we are a man down in midfield, which is where we have been sliced open time and time again. If I were so inclined, I'd go back and see the percentage of goals we've conceded from midfield which was the direct result of not man marking and closing men down. We are so predictable. Instead of having 3 CBs standing shoulder to shoulder, move one into the anchorman role and give him the sole job of closing men down outside the box. (Or, give McGregor/Jack/McTominay/whoever a sharp kick up the arse and tell them to do their job)

Edited March 29, 2021 by Tartan blood

[bazmidd]

3 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

I agree with re the 343 352 or whatever but imo it is down to the fact we do not have players in the team who want or are good enough  to keep the ball. mctominay mcginn christie armstrong etc are all get it and go fast or pass it to players who can do something with it they dont look for it back and keep it . I feel like a broken record here but gilmour and turnbull pass the ball and are always looking for it back which lets pressure build up. They need in now and when added to all our good players we have a team. Im fed up of hearing gilmour is not in chelsea team. Every single game he has played for the 1st team he has been man of the match and some of them against top teams in England. Get the bench warmers out and these boys in.

Bang on, last night was crying out for someone to impose themselves on the game in Midfield. Not one of our Midfielders will take the ball and dictate the tempo of a game. They all have good and differing qualities but none of them can do what Gilmour does

[Bino's]

The entire campaign revolves on can we take anything in Austria and can Israel so us a favour and beat Austria in Israel

I'm assuming Denmark's form continues

 

[Bino's]

7 minutes ago, bazmidd said:

Bang on, last night was crying out for someone to impose themselves on the game in Midfield. Not one of our Midfielders will take the ball and dictate the tempo of a game. They all have good and differing qualities but none of them can do what Gilmour does

If gilmour was Welsh he would already be capped like those lads that got abuse

Why he has not been tried consider McGregor is disappointing

[mccaughey85]

19 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

He did, and I feel like I say something similar every time he plays. He is our best attacking midfielder. On his day, Christie isn't far behind. Playing a back 5 against a team like Israel is just wasting all of our attacking talent. What's the point in having these players if we aren't going to use them. 

Playing a back 5 will be perfect when we are up against elite teams that will hem us in and we have to hit them on the counter, but it just doesn't work against anyone else. It's too reliant on creativity from the wing backs, who will then be putting crosses into packed defences. It also means we are a man down in midfield, which is where we have been sliced open time and time again. If I were so inclined, I'd go back and see the percentage of goals we've conceded from midfield which was the direct result of not man marking and closing men down. We are so predictable. Instead of having 3 CBs standing shoulder to shoulder, move one into the anchorman role and give him the sole job of closing men down outside the box. (Or, give McGregor/Jack/McTominay/whoever a sharp kick up the arse and tell them to do their job)

yeh maybe a 442 against teams who are weaker or similar standard to us then play 352 for the elite teams. i reckon having wingers of fraser and tierney would of created more chances last night. i think tierney could easily play on the wing as he can dribble and carry the ball really well.

perhaps this team would suit us against weaker opposition.

                             marshall

o donnell   hanley  cooper/hendry     robertson

fraser            mctominay mcginn             tierney

                                christie

                            adams/dykes

allows us to be more positive and has our best players playing.

Edited March 29, 2021 by mccaughey85

[Caledonian Craig]

8 minutes ago, Bino's said:

If gilmour was Welsh he would already be capped like those lads that got abuse

Why he has not been tried consider McGregor is disappointing

I just do not see what McGregor brings to the side especially in games we have to go for the win in. He is a negative midfielder. I watched him plenty of times last night get the ball after we had broke up attack. Once he picked up the ball and had space to move forward into with the ball but instead he turned and ran back about five yards with the ball and passed it back to the back three. Far too overly negative a player when we need to be hunting down goals. God forbid us if he plays on Wednesday from the start.

[Tartan blood]

10 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

yeh maybe a 442 against teams who are weaker or similar standard to us then play 352 for the elite teams. i reckon having wingers of fraser and tierney would of created more chances last night. i think tierney could easily play on the wing as he can dribble and carry the ball really well.

You could pick any area of the park to play Tierney and he'd excel. You're right, we don't need to play a back 5 to fit Tierney and Robertson into the team. Both are capable of playing on the wing or at RB. There is nothing wrong with a full back bombing up the wing and cutting inside. If anything it gives us a new dimension. 

Just saw your edit: That is pretty close to the team I'd play as well. We have the attacking players to dominate teams of Israel's level. As McTominay say, we need a bit of arrogance about us. We are better than we think we are. We just have to untie the ropes holding us back.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Tartan blood

[Tartan blood]

6 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I just do not see what McGregor brings to the side especially in games we have to go for the win in. He is a negative midfielder. I watched him plenty of times last night get the ball after we had broke up attack. Once he picked up the ball and had space to move forward into with the ball but instead he turned and ran back about five yards with the ball and passed it back to the back three. Far too overly negative a player when we need to be hunting down goals. God forbid us if he plays on Wednesday from the start.

Spot on. You'd at least expect a player that negative to be doing an alternative job of marking and closing men down, but he doesn't do that either. 

Turnbull, Gauld, McGinn, Armstrong, Forrest, Fraser and Christie, are all better at going forward than him. 

Gilmour, McTominay, Jack, McGinn, and McLean, are all better at the holding midfield role than him. 

He wouldn't be in my final 23, but I know that won't happen. He must be an absolute warrior in training, because I can't understand why he gets played 60 games a season.

[Bino's]

25 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I just do not see what McGregor brings to the side especially in games we have to go for the win in. He is a negative midfielder. I watched him plenty of times last night get the ball after we had broke up attack. Once he picked up the ball and had space to move forward into with the ball but instead he turned and ran back about five yards with the ball and passed it back to the back three. Far too overly negative a player when we need to be hunting down goals. God forbid us if he plays on Wednesday from the start.

He's supposed to be the deep lying play maker

But as his club mate Forrest its one good performance in ten caps

Gilmour simply needs a go

[Caledonian Craig]

6 minutes ago, Bino's said:

He's supposed to be the deep lying play maker

But as his club mate Forrest its one good performance in ten caps

Gilmour simply needs a go

I agree but I'm beginning to see that Clarke puts more stock into what a player brings to the team defensively more than he does attacking-wise hence why he likes McGregor's safety first approach.

[Third Lanark]

Had to log off last night such was the nonsense and knee-jerking evinced on here.

1) To the 'sack Clarke' loons: do you not realise that you cannot call for that without putting a realistic alternative candidate in place and there just is not one?

2)Marshall's mistakes weren't 'howlers' exactly but I am 100% convinced McGregor would not have conceded. However, he is a definite strong character and don't think he would go back on his decision to return.

3) Robertson really was honking. For the Faroes I would drop him and play Tierney at LB. If we need to use 3 at the back for the Faroes then we really are sunk. Clarke has said that sometimes we will need to use a back four though the players asked for 3. This is one of those times.

[er yir macaroon]

1 hour ago, bazmidd said:

 

If we play the box in midfield like we did last night it basically leaves two midfielders against 5 in this case v Israel because they pushed our wingbacks so far back. We should play with a flat 3. Gilmour at the base dictating play and McGinn and McTominay box to box. That gives us 3 in there at all times with licence to support the strikers.  I personally hate 3-4-3 with the box shape, our players just don't even know how to play it, the movements are all wrong players running into the same spaces we create no passing gaps and the two attacking mids leave our Midfield two isolated

Agreed. 

[RDFH64]

1 hour ago, gaz7 said:

lol apologies Denmark

Had me even more worried about our chances of qualifying or senile dementia was getting to me quicker than I thought 😜

[er yir macaroon]

1 hour ago, bazmidd said:

Bang on, last night was crying out for someone to impose themselves on the game in Midfield. Not one of our Midfielders will take the ball and dictate the tempo of a game. They all have good and differing qualities but none of them can do what Gilmour does

I think everyone one wants Gilmour in the team but he would need players around him. Last night our midfield was sparse and totally overwhelmed because of having 5 players camped in the first 30 yards of the pitch. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by er yir macaroon

[bazmidd]

10 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

I think everyone one wants Gilmour in the team but he would need players around him. Last night our midfield was sparse and totally overwhelmed because of having 5 players camped in the first 30 yards of the pitc

Having Gilmour in the team would allow our Wing Backs to push into Midfield more often. He can be trusted to take the ball from the Defence, give the Wing Backs time to push forward and create passing angles for him. Also if McGinn and McTominay were beside him he would have plenty support in there. But as we progress as a team I would like to see how Gauld or Turnbull would fit in place of McGinn. I love McGinns energy but to move to another level we need players who can keep the ball

[er yir macaroon]

1 minute ago, bazmidd said:

Having Gilmour in the team would allow our Wing Backs to push into Midfield more often. He can be trusted to take the ball from the Defence, give the Wing Backs time to push forward and create passing angles for him. Also if McGinn and McTominay were beside him he would have plenty support in there. But as we progress as a team I would like to see how Gauld or Turnbull would fit in place of McGinn. I love McGinns energy but to move to another level we need players who can keep the ball

Neither of our wing backs are up to that role. Put Gilmour in a 4-5-1 and I think we’ll be in a much better place. 

[Return of Yermaw]

12 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

The tactics were dead wrong. Credit where it's due, Clarke changed it at half time. 

But it wasn't just that. Far too many of our big players didn't perform.

McGinn - By far his worst game for us

McTominay - tried hard but so many things didn't come off for him. 

Robertson - what is going on with his crossing?

Marshall - he'd have saved that shot in November

McGregor - I really dont understand why he plays 60 games a year

Tierney and Fraser continued to perform well in a Scotland jersey. Both very rarely let us down when fit and avaliable. I think we should be building a system around them. 

 

Credit is due in waiting till half the game is over and we have conceded a goal before taking action to address something apparent from the first 15 mins? 

If far too many of our big players are consistently under-performing then perhaps it is less to do with individuals and more to do with tactics and how we are set up? Maybe something worth considering....

[Tartan blood]

3 minutes ago, Return of Yermaw said:

Credit is due in waiting till half the game is over and we have conceded a goal before taking action to address something apparent from the first 15 mins? 

If far too many of our big players are consistently under-performing then perhaps it is less to do with individuals and more to do with tactics and how we are set up? Maybe something worth considering....

I'm not defending Clarke here. He got the tactics from the start wrong against both Austria and Israel. But the vast majority of managers would be far more stubborn and wait until the 67th minute. Against Austria, he changed it after half an hour. Against Israel, half time. Still not good enough but I'm glad he at least has the awareness to accept that he got it wrong.

I wouldn't say our big players have been consistently under-performing. Last night, absolutely, but in general they have performed admirably. The ongoing conundrum of what to do with Robertson/Tierney is part of the overall problem. By trying to fit both of them into defence, it is affecting the shape of the rest of the team. I'm more than happy to play a back 5 against the elite teams, and maybe even against Denmark, but I think we have the right players to play a 451 against everyone else.

[bazmidd]

53 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Neither of our wing backs are up to that role. Put Gilmour in a 4-5-1 and I think we’ll be in a much better place. 

I'm kind of with you but then where does Tierney and Roberson play again? And I'm not sure we have good enough wide players to play a 451. Fraser is decent but we don't have much on the right. Maybe Armstrong or put Tierney Left Wing and Fraser Right Wing but Fraser isn't as effective there

[Tartan Chris]

14 hours ago, ThistleWhistle said:

Second half was better but why the fuck did it take the twenty seven and a half games against them already to work out how play against them?   Can't see Austria dropping points there - for the 15 minutes we actually pressed them and pushed Dasa back you could see why they're so lowly ranked.

Probably need 4-5 points off the remaining games v Austria and Denmark now for a playoff.

Two years ago:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47686996