Scotland v Austria

[PASTA Mick]

6 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

Odonnell didn't look like he struggled to me. Alaba was quiet and odonnell blasted by him once and was up supporting a lot. Dykes 1st touch I agree was poor but he set up our best chance and was a bawhair of Robertson's cross and won a lot of balls. Christie as ever ran his heart out had our best chance and set up mcginn. I agree that tierney has more qualities for lab than robertson but l felt last night the 2 of them gave austria a lot to worry about with their different attributes. Anyone that wants Robertson out the team imo knows heehaw about football. He is a pl and champs league winner and a player with that experience and knowledge and skillset will always be in our team. He would be 1st choice left back in every team in the world nearly but you and some others want him out . hilarious patter. Turnbull should defo be in squad as should gilmour. Things are looking up but only results will confirm it.

Where do I say that? I'd have them both in the team but I'd consider swapping them round. 

[Tartan blood]

2 minutes ago, gaz7 said:

Odonnell didn't look like he struggled to me. Alaba was quiet and odonnell blasted by him once and was up supporting a lot. Dykes 1st touch I agree was poor but he set up our best chance and was a bargain of Robertson's cross and won a lot of balls. Christie as ever ran his heart out had our best chance and set up mcginn. I agree that tierney has more qualities for lab than robertson but l felt last night the 2 of them gave austria a lot to worry about with their different attributes. Anyone that wants Robertson out the team imo knows heehaw about football. He is a pl and champs league winner and a player with that experience and knowledge and skillset will always be in our team. He would be 1st choice left back in every team in the world nearly but you and some others want him out . hilarious patter. Turnbull should defo be in squad as should gilmour. Things are looking up but only results will confirm it.

Realistically, Robertson will never be dropped, nor should he be. We just need to find a way to get the best out of Tierney and Robertson. They did relatively well last night, but it feels more like they take turns at attacking rather than attacking together. If they could form a partnership, that left side would be dynamite. But the fact that 2 of our best players are down that side means they will always be suffocated by the opposition. If one was played on the right, it would force teams to spread out more.

Tierney, McTominay and Robertson would all be in the squad of the vast majority of all international teams. McGinn isn't far behind either. We are finally starting to produce some really top class players.

[gkm_vancouver]

23 minutes ago, duncan II said:

Tierney is more a threat than Robertson, I agree. But I think once it became obvious Robertson was being snuffed out down the left, that kind of gave Tierney space to break out from defence and make his marauding runs. I think this is what Clarke envisages happening. It's another attacking front. If the left wing is being nullified, Tierney's ball-carrying gives us another option. I see no need to specifically move him to left wingback. When he goes charging up the field, there's no reason why Robertson can't sit and cover.

Exactly. Surely having two top class players that can take turns in running the left  flank is a strong attribute that can test the opposition.

[PASTA Mick]

6 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

Realistically, Robertson will never be dropped, nor should he be. We just need to find a way to get the best out of Tierney and Robertson. They did relatively well last night, but it feels more like they take turns at attacking rather than attacking together. If they could form a partnership, that left side would be dynamite. But the fact that 2 of our best players are down that side means they will always be suffocated by the opposition. If one was played on the right, it would force teams to spread out more.

Tierney, McTominay and Robertson would all be in the squad of the vast majority of all international teams. McGinn isn't far behind either. We are finally starting to produce some really top class players.

I'm a big believer in finding a way to get our best players on the pitch together.

It is tricky with Robertson and Tierney probably being our best two and playing in the same position.  Clarke has found a way to get them both in but it doesn't mean we can keep evaluating whether we can find other ways.  

Personally, I'd start by switching them and trying Robertson at LCB.  Also wouldn't mind trying Roberson at RWB.  I just think Tierney needs to be playing LWB. 

[er yir macaroon]

25 minutes ago, duncan II said:

Tierney is more a threat than Robertson, I agree. But I think once it became obvious Robertson was being snuffed out down the left, that kind of gave Tierney space to break out from defence and make his marauding runs. I think this is what Clarke envisages happening. It's another attacking front. If the left wing is being nullified, Tierney's ball-carrying gives us another option. I see no need to specifically move him to left wingback. When he goes charging up the field, there's no reason why Robertson can't sit and cover.

I agree with this. Tierney can steal 60 yards with little resistance from that inside left position.

If we had two McTominays, I’d put one in the right wing back role as I could see him tearing down that flank causing all sorts of problems. Maybe with Jack back and Hendry finding his feet, that will be an option. 

[Third Lanark]

2 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

I'm a big believer in finding a way to get our best players on the pitch together.

It is tricky with Robertson and Tierney probably being our best two and playing in the same position.  Clarke has found a way to get them both in but it doesn't mean we can keep evaluating whether we can find other ways.  

Personally, I'd start by switching them and trying Robertson at LCB.  Also wouldn't mind trying Roberson at RWB.  I just think Tierney needs to be playing LWB. 

Think we've had enough switching around for now. We have solved the conumdrum of getting Tierney and Robertson into the same team and now the conundrum of moving McTom into his best position. Now we have to fnd a way of getting McGinn forward where he can make those trademark bum-turning surges. Wonder if McLean (who has loads of caps but never gets rated on here) can cover in the absence of Jack. Not sure if I trust McGregor to sit beside McTom. Whatever, we till need to get support quicker to Dykes and/or Adams.

[Diamond Scot]

I think the Robertson Tierney combination is actually working well. Tierney is solid at lcb and is a good passer from the back.

Teams are worried about Robertson and go tight on him like Austria did last night. That allows other players (like Tierney on accasion) to use the space. 

Robertson and Tierney play the position differently. Robertson plays more slipped passes, give and goes. Tierney is more likey to drop a shoulder and knock it past a defender which is more eye catching however without the contrast of Robertson, teams would wise up to it and just put the right back 5 yards behind the right mid to sweep up the ball.

On Odonnell, he does well defensively and gets into good positions but his final ball lets him down time and time again. No pressure on his crosses and he hits the 1st defender so often. He should be working hard on that.

[Tartan blood]

27 minutes ago, PASTA Mick said:

I'm a big believer in finding a way to get our best players on the pitch together.

It is tricky with Robertson and Tierney probably being our best two and playing in the same position.  Clarke has found a way to get them both in but it doesn't mean we can keep evaluating whether we can find other ways.  

Personally, I'd start by switching them and trying Robertson at LCB.  Also wouldn't mind trying Roberson at RWB.  I just think Tierney needs to be playing LWB. 

Exactly. No other team in the world would keep their best players on the bench. Look at England's dillemma of having Lampard, Gerrard and Scholes at the same time. They played all 3, as they should have. You work out a system to suit your best players. Danny McGrain played RB for Scotland despite playing on the left for Celtic. 

Robertson, Tierney, McTominay and McGinn start every match. That shouldn't even be up for debate.

[ceudmilefailte]

3 hours ago, Bino's said:

We've lost two games in Israel and we should have won both

We've just let ourselves down against them

Think you have blanked out the 2-1 defeat, 2-1 Israel flattered us it should have been 5-1, it was our worst performance ever.

It's a bit of a worry that we have never beaten them playing a back three even though we could have last time.

[thesaint]

5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Nah.

They are just our type of nemesis. A well-organised team who work to a well-drilled plan and who are tough to break down - not a good match-up for us.

We are not the sort of team to cut other defences up at will. We prefer sitting back and hitting on the counter but Israel do not allow that because of the way they play. They pack their defence which always makes it difficult to score and even more so for us.

I do not buy into the earlier poster who said they'll be on a downer after their Denmark defeat. Tosh. They are immune to defeats as it is something they are used to. We saw that by how they bounced back from defeats in matches against us in the past.

I am very nervous about Sunday - more so than last night and not looking forward so much to it as matches against them are painfully dire to watch. Still lets hope we can carve out a win.

 

[Tartan Chris]

15 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

The pleasing thing for me is we seem to have a growing wider pool of players who have shown they can come in and do a job for us. Players like Hendry and maybe even Hanley have been dropped into the side in a crunch match and stood up to the test to increase our pool of central defenders and perhaps helps keep McTominay in midfield. The team spirit is now excellent and we are still getting results in matches we would have lost despite not being at our best.

That was pleasing for me. Hanley looked a walking red card in first half but thankfully calmed down and played his part in getting the point. Hendry did fine.

Yes none of them will ever be world class but Clarke is showing the system put out can nulify that and make the collective stronger. As I've said countless times before it's nothing radical and both Ireland teams and Wales have done it themselves for ages with decent results.

To have any hope of getting a win in the euros need McTominay in central midfield despite the very decent job he's done at the back in last 12 months as you're going in against two teams with world class midfields and Czechs have Soucek who's been outstanding for West Ham and huge threat in the air so need McTom to counter that a little more.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Tartan Chris

[Tartan Chris]

15 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

To be honest I think the best we could aim for here was second spot in this group anyway. But we shall see.

I agree. When you look at Denmark team it's actually full of good players in most positions and they know how to qualify for major tournaments so to me they're clear group favourites and the opening games just confirm that.

Austria are o.k but I can see Denmark taking 4 points off them and they could also slip up in Israel so think the good news is 15/16 points could well be enough for 2nd spot.

Take chances in play offs although obviously much harder to qualify than for the euros. At least the team wouldn't go into that batch of games with negativity after getting through last time.

[thesaint]

5 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Nah.

They are just our type of nemesis. A well-organised team who work to a well-drilled plan and who are tough to break down - not a good match-up for us.

We are not the sort of team to cut other defences up at will. We prefer sitting back and hitting on the counter but Israel do not allow that because of the way they play. They pack their defence which always makes it difficult to score and even more so for us.

I do not buy into the earlier poster who said they'll be on a downer after their Denmark defeat. Tosh. They are immune to defeats as it is something they are used to. We saw that by how they bounced back from defeats in matches against us in the past.

I am very nervous about Sunday - more so than last night and not looking forward so much to it as matches against them are painfully dire to watch. Still lets hope we can carve out a win.

Maybe not on a downer,but hardly likely to full of confidence after that performance.Confidence is a big part of football,and maybe if we were to start on the front foot and score early,they might just fall into the "well,we are used to losing mode".We really need to produce a much more positive performance against them,than we have in the recent hideous games against them.We must win this match.End of.

[Caledonian Craig]

3 minutes ago, thesaint said:

Maybe not on a downer,but hardly likely to full of confidence after that performance.Confidence is a big part of football,and maybe if we were to start on the front foot and score early,they might just fall into the "well,we are used to losing mode".We really need to produce a much more positive performance against them,than we have in the recent hideous games against them.We must win this match.End of.

Nah I wouldn't say confidence taken a knock either. They invariably lose international matches quite regularly but they still remain a tough nut to crack. They'll look at that game V Denmark as being against a top notch side and were still in with a shout of nicking a result until the last 15 minutes or so so if anything they'll take a boost from that.

It is a must win match for us and we need to follow Denmark's route. They were susceptible to pace on the attack so we must use that on Sunday.

[The Black Bra]

I’m sure Israel go into games against us thinking they should win and that they are quite possibly better than us. In 5 games we have only beaten them in 90 mins once and that was thanks to a brilliant save at the death from McGregor.

[thesaint]

2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Nah I wouldn't say confidence taken a knock either. They invariably lose international matches quite regularly but they still remain a tough nut to crack. They'll look at that game V Denmark as being against a top notch side and were still in with a shout of nicking a result until the last 15 minutes or so so if anything they'll take a boost from that.

It is a must win match for us and we need to follow Denmark's route. They were susceptible to pace on the attack so we must use that on Sunday.

As you say.They regularly lose matches.Let's make sure this is another one added to the long list.

[Return of Yermaw]

1 hour ago, The Black Bra said:

I’m sure Israel go into games against us thinking they should win and that they are quite possibly better than us. In 5 games we have only beaten them in 90 mins once and that was thanks to a brilliant save at the death from McGregor.

At the same time we scored three times in that game and have never looked like doing that again when playing Israel. Hopefully we can create a few chances and with a bit of luck (given we have no clinical finisher) take some of those chances. That should see us to a win. 

[Return of Yermaw]

2 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Nah I wouldn't say confidence taken a knock either. They invariably lose international matches quite regularly but they still remain a tough nut to crack. They'll look at that game V Denmark as being against a top notch side and were still in with a shout of nicking a result until the last 15 minutes or so so if anything they'll take a boost from that.

It is a must win match for us and we need to follow Denmark's route. They were susceptible to pace on the attack so we must use that on Sunday.

agreed. Nothing cagey, and no need to suss them out. We know exactly Israel's strengths and weaknesses (as they do we). Maybe Fraser to start and just get on to them from the beginning. Robertson for once needs to get the better of Dasa. All in all we are the better team and just need to play like that from the start. Bitton out is a bonus as he has played well against us in the last two games. 

[ceudmilefailte]

4 minutes ago, Return of Yermaw said:

At the same time we scored three times in that game and have never looked like doing that again when playing Israel. Hopefully we can create a few chances and with a bit of luck (given we have no clinical finisher) take some of those chances. That should see us to a win. 

In he last game against Israel we had 19 attempts on goal, 7 on target and 7 blocked we were desperately unlucky not to take anything from that game.

According to a stats site the Israel keeper got man of the match and a very high rating of 9.2 which would have been close to 10 if he hadn't got booked.

What's a worry is the lack of attempts on goal by Dykes(one).

[Bino's]

4 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Think you have blanked out the 2-1 defeat, 2-1 Israel flattered us it should have been 5-1, it was our worst performance ever.

It's a bit of a worry that we have never beaten them playing a back three even though we could have last time.

We were one up first half

It was a balmy night and the players idiotically ran themselves out on their feet by 55 mins

Poor game management

 

 

[ceudmilefailte]

8 minutes ago, Bino's said:

We were one up first half

It was a balmy night and the players idiotically ran themselves out on their feet by 55 mins

Poor game management

 

 

They had 25 attempts at goal no one does that, I doubt if Belgium or Russia managed any were near that against us.

Sorry but we were awful.

On the plus side I do think the 3-2 win was easier than the score suggests even allowing for McGregor's save

[Dodger]

1 hour ago, Bino's said:

We were one up first half

It was a balmy night and the players idiotically ran themselves out on their feet by 55 mins

Poor game management

 

 

We got absolutely destroyed that night. Were one up thanks to a very soft penalty which must've been the only time we got into their box in 90 minutes. 

[breeks_mctavish]

8 hours ago, PASTA Mick said:

I'm a big believer in finding a way to get our best players on the pitch together.

It is tricky with Robertson and Tierney probably being our best two and playing in the same position.  Clarke has found a way to get them both in but it doesn't mean we can keep evaluating whether we can find other ways.  

Personally, I'd start by switching them and trying Robertson at LCB.  Also wouldn't mind trying Roberson at RWB.  I just think Tierney needs to be playing LWB. 

I really couldn’t see how Robertson could play on the right. His great strength is whipping first time balls in with his left foot at full pelt. I’ve barely seen Robertson kick a ball with his right foot, maybe it’s a secret weapon but I highly doubt it. Sure Tierney might be even more effective than Robertson at left wing back but we seem to have found a system where Tierney can make an excellent contribution while retaining Robertson’s attacking threat from the left. I can’t imagine why we’d continue to tinker. 

[ceudmilefailte]

2 hours ago, breeks_mctavish said:

I really couldn’t see how Robertson could play on the right. His great strength is whipping first time balls in with his left foot at full pelt. I’ve barely seen Robertson kick a ball with his right foot, maybe it’s a secret weapon but I highly doubt it. Sure Tierney might be even more effective than Robertson at left wing back but we seem to have found a system where Tierney can make an excellent contribution while retaining Robertson’s attacking threat from the left. I can’t imagine why we’d continue to tinker. 

Think the question you should be asking is do you want a champions league and EPL winner on the right hand side or the very definition of a journey man in Stephen O'Donnell.

Nothing against O'Donnell but there are half a dozen players in the squad that could be just as effective in his role.

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by ceudmilefailte

[Barney Rubble]

20 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Nothing against O'Donnell but there are half a dozen players in the squad that could be just as effective in his role.

 

OK. I'll play.

Name them.