Your Scotland squad (and first XI) for Euro 2020

[Tartan blood]

1 hour ago, Texas Pete said:

Agreed but although there is a lot of noise on here about who should selected I’m pretty sure Clarke probably already knows his final 26. If he doesn’t what has he been doing for the last month?

Would make sense to name a few extra players though especially to cover injury doubts. Would be easier to do that than call up players later. 

I think we are all in agreement that he should take more than 26 to Portugal, and make up his mind by the 1st of June. But, you're right, Clarke will already have a settled 26 in his head. It's only injury/illness that will force his hand between now and June.

What I would say is that we are all focused on who should be going and we are assuming that Clarke has been watching the likes of Gauld, Gilmour etc just as obsessively as we are. However, just as important, if not more so, would be for Clarke to be studying Czech Republic, England and Croatia. 

I'd be willing to forgive him for missing some Farense and Celtic matches if I knew he was masterminding his tactics against our opponents.

[Tartan Chris]

9 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

No I place the blame at his door - after all Vogts had to take the lion's share of the blame for the mess he inherited. He got an ageing squad and needed to get new faces in pronto. Some went on to carve out great careers such as Fletcher, Faddy, Gordon, Miller and such-like whilst others were complete shots in the dark that flopped. Brown was a great manager for us but his refusal to look to the future saw problems snowball on to Vogts reign.

Gary Naysmith was about 20 in 1999. He possibly could've got called up a bit earlier to freshen up the left side. Moved to Everton in summer 2000 and then started getting called up.

Miller been mentioned, had a fantastic scoring season in 1999-00 for Hibs but didn't actually get a call up until April 2001 (indeed didn't even play for under 21s under March 2000).

Wasn't there talk around the England 1999 play off of trying to call up David Johnson who'd played for England under 21s and was scoring loads for Ipswich but think it was found he wasn't eligible.

Burchill was more a flash in the pan but came to the fore in 98/99 season for Celtic and you also had likes of Stephen Donnelly and the late Phil O'Donnell around that time although they both moved to Sheff Weds which probably didn't make them popular options north of the border as think both were bosmans.

France 98 wasn't the problem, it was more the period afterwards.

Just been looking back at the crucial September 2001 games v Croatia and Belgium which killed the world cup bid and Scott Booth was randomly starting upfront in the croatia 0-0! Tom Boyd was still starting for Belgium away.

Bit more "youth" for the dead rubber at home to Latvia with Calum Davidson (25), Barry Nicholson (23) and errr Dougie Freeman (27) all starting.

I actually thought Paul Dickov had randomly featured again under Brown as he was scoring a few at Man. City in that period but seems he got more games under Vogts, got his first call up in 2000 at age of 28 so there's the muddled thinking in not promoting Miller sooner. At leat Vogts did and quickly got Faddy and Fletch involved.

No excuse whatsoever for Gilmour not to be called up to the 26 due to injuries and he has played a couple of games for Chelsea in last few months. He'll obviously struggle to play but will simply be a great experience to integrate him into the set up, I couldn't understand why he didn't get a call up in March.

Had actually lost track of Gauld so didn't know he was doing so well in Portugal. Interested on his next move as seems there's some decent clubs interested in him now.

[Tartan blood]

11 hours ago, Tartan Chris said:

Gary Naysmith was about 20 in 1999. He possibly could've got called up a bit earlier to freshen up the left side. Moved to Everton in summer 2000 and then started getting called up.

Miller been mentioned, had a fantastic scoring season in 1999-00 for Hibs but didn't actually get a call up until April 2001 (indeed didn't even play for under 21s under March 2000).

Wasn't there talk around the England 1999 play off of trying to call up David Johnson who'd played for England under 21s and was scoring loads for Ipswich but think it was found he wasn't eligible.

Burchill was more a flash in the pan but came to the fore in 98/99 season for Celtic and you also had likes of Stephen Donnelly and the late Phil O'Donnell around that time although they both moved to Sheff Weds which probably didn't make them popular options north of the border as think both were bosmans.

France 98 wasn't the problem, it was more the period afterwards.

Just been looking back at the crucial September 2001 games v Croatia and Belgium which killed the world cup bid and Scott Booth was randomly starting upfront in the croatia 0-0! Tom Boyd was still starting for Belgium away.

Bit more "youth" for the dead rubber at home to Latvia with Calum Davidson (25), Barry Nicholson (23) and errr Dougie Freeman (27) all starting.

I actually thought Paul Dickov had randomly featured again under Brown as he was scoring a few at Man. City in that period but seems he got more games under Vogts, got his first call up in 2000 at age of 28 so there's the muddled thinking in not promoting Miller sooner. At leat Vogts did and quickly got Faddy and Fletch involved.

No excuse whatsoever for Gilmour not to be called up to the 26 due to injuries and he has played a couple of games for Chelsea in last few months. He'll obviously struggle to play but will simply be a great experience to integrate him into the set up, I couldn't understand why he didn't get a call up in March.

Had actually lost track of Gauld so didn't know he was doing so well in Portugal. Interested on his next move as seems there's some decent clubs interested in him now.

I think in March Gilmour wasn't even making the Chelsea bench. Most had resigned themselves to the fact he wouldn't be included. It's really just the last few weeks he's been given any opportunity. 

If Clarke doesn't include Gilmour or Patterson, I'll understand. Both have only had very recent but only a handful of appearances. (Though I'd bring both)

Gauld is playing for a relegation threatened team in a foreign country, after having quite a few years of very little substantial game time. So, unless Clarke has been watching him regularly, I could understand his ommission as well. (Though I'd also take him)

Turnbull has now won the young player of the year award twice in Scotland. His stats are through the roof in terms of chances created. And in the last round of games we badly missed a good set piece taker as well. For that alone he should absolutely be in the squad.

So, if Gilmour, Gauld and Patterson don't make it, I'll understand, if not condone it. Turnbull, I won't.

[Caledonian Craig]

26 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I think in March Gilmour wasn't even making the Chelsea bench. Most had resigned themselves to the fact he wouldn't be included. It's really just the last few weeks he's been given any opportunity. 

If Clarke doesn't include Gilmour or Patterson, I'll understand. Both have only had very recent but only a handful of appearances. (Though I'd bring both)

Gauld is playing for a relegation threatened team in a foreign country, after having quite a few years of very little substantial game time. So, unless Clarke has been watching him regularly, I could understand his ommission as well. (Though I'd also take him)

Turnbull has now won the young player of the year award twice in Scotland. His stats are through the roof in terms of chances created. And in the last round of games we badly missed a good set piece taker as well. For that alone he should absolutely be in the squad.

So, if Gilmour, Gauld and Patterson don't make it, I'll understand, if not condone it. Turnbull, I won't.

So the question would be who will Clarke take in place of Patterson, Gilmour, Turnbull and Gauld? There is no Dalglish-esque, McGrain-esque ot Souness-esque players that will miss out to include these. The exact opposite actually.

[ThistleWhistle]

31 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

So the question would be who will Clarke take in place of Patterson, Gilmour, Turnbull and Gauld? There is no Dalglish-esque, McGrain-esque ot Souness-esque players that will miss out to include these. The exact opposite actually.

The other thing for me is understand sides who're likely to go deep into the tournament taking established options in the additional 3 places.  However, for us this would seem a relatively risk free way of getting a bonus young 2-3 guys into the squad for the future with the target just getting out the group where we'd likely meet a heavy weight. 

If we did defy expectation and get to the last 16 or 8 (be still my racing heart - I'd take scoring a goal as the first target) and had to play one of the youngsters doubt anyone could even legitimately say 'If only we'd taken....'   

[Tartan blood]

49 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

So the question would be who will Clarke take in place of Patterson, Gilmour, Turnbull and Gauld? There is no Dalglish-esque, McGrain-esque ot Souness-esque players that will miss out to include these. The exact opposite actually.

I think all 4 should go. But it wouldn't surprise me to see Johnny Russell instead of Gauld, Callum Paterson instead of Turnbull, Palmer instead of Patterson, and McRorie ahead of Gilmour. All of whom have been chosen by Clarke.

11 minutes ago, ThistleWhistle said:

The other thing for me is understand sides who're likely to go deep into the tournament taking established options in the additional 3 places.  However, for us this would seem a relatively risk free way of getting a bonus young 2-3 guys into the squad for the future with the target just getting out the group where we'd likely meet a heavy weight. 

If we did defy expectation and get to the last 16 or 8 (be still my racing heart - I'd take scoring a goal as the first target) and had to play one of the youngsters doubt anyone could even legitimately say 'If only we'd taken....'   

That's a very good point about seeing those as 3 bonus slots. You'd think Clarke already knew who his 23 were going to be. So maybe he will throw caution to the wind and bring 3 young wildcards.

I, however, think he'll give one of those slots to Andy Considine, James Forrest and maybe Oli Burke. All 3 have valid arguments to be included.

[GHfaeGTA]

5 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I think all 4 should go. But it wouldn't surprise me to see Johnny Russell instead of Gauld, Callum Paterson instead of Turnbull, Palmer instead of Patterson, and McRorie ahead of Gilmour. All of whom have been chosen by Clarke.

That's a very good point about seeing those as 3 bonus slots. You'd think Clarke already knew who his 23 were going to be. So maybe he will throw caution to the wind and bring 3 young wildcards.

I, however, think he'll give one of those slots to Andy Considine, James Forrest and maybe Oli Burke. All 3 have valid arguments to be included.

What’s the ‘valid’ argument for Burke? He’s injured anyway. And Considine? Surely we will have more than enough centre halves? We need game changers like Gauld especially when it’s looking like touch and go for  Fraser. 

[Third Lanark]

4 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I think all 4 should go. But it wouldn't surprise me to see Johnny Russell instead of Gauld, Callum Paterson instead of Turnbull, Palmer instead of Patterson, and McRorie ahead of Gilmour. All of whom have been chosen by Clarke.

That's a very good point about seeing those as 3 bonus slots. You'd think Clarke already knew who his 23 were going to be. So maybe he will throw caution to the wind and bring 3 young wildcards.

I, however, think he'll give one of those slots to Andy Considine, James Forrest and maybe Oli Burke. All 3 have valid arguments to be included.

Sorry to be rude but Burke has no valid arguments at all. He's had dozens of clubs and failed miserably at them all because of his lack of game awareness. No amount of pace compensates for that. On top of it all he's now ruled out through injury. Considine will likely get in as cover for left CB and left back - he can play both positions where I dont think Taylor can. IMO Forrest is the one most likely to keep Gauld out. Numbers-wise I don't think there's room for both, assuming Turnbull and Gilmour are the other two.

[ThistleWhistle]

7 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I think all 4 should go. But it wouldn't surprise me to see Johnny Russell instead of Gauld, Callum Paterson instead of Turnbull, Palmer instead of Patterson, and McRorie ahead of Gilmour. All of whom have been chosen by Clarke.

That's a very good point about seeing those as 3 bonus slots. You'd think Clarke already knew who his 23 were going to be. So maybe he will throw caution to the wind and bring 3 young wildcards.

I, however, think he'll give one of those slots to Andy Considine, James Forrest and maybe Oli Burke. All 3 have valid arguments to be included.

Yeah I'd be surprised if any apart from Gilmour make it and even that's potentially a stretch given how cautious/ pragmatic Clarke is.  Likely be justified by if Covid gets in the camp rather than injuries but if it did we'd essentially be fucked anyway.  

[Tartan blood]

1 hour ago, GHfaeGTA said:

What’s the ‘valid’ argument for Burke? He’s injured anyway. And Considine? Surely we will have more than enough centre halves? We need game changers like Gauld especially when it’s looking like touch and go for  Fraser. 

 

59 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Sorry to be rude but Burke has no valid arguments at all. He's had dozens of clubs and failed miserably at them all because of his lack of game awareness. No amount of pace compensates for that. On top of it all he's now ruled out through injury. Considine will likely get in as cover for left CB and left back - he can play both positions where I dont think Taylor can. IMO Forrest is the one most likely to keep Gauld out. Numbers-wise I don't think there's room for both, assuming Turnbull and Gilmour are the other two.

The valid argument that Clarke would use (not me) is that he has international experience, premier league experience, and played in Germany and Spain. He also has a goal for Scotland. That's all before you start to discuss his counter attacking capabilities, which we may need against certain teams.

Experience and camp familiarity seems to be something very important to Clarke. That could have gone in Burke's favour. 

He's injured and ruled out?? I wasn't aware of that. Well it's a moot point then. Personally, I'd have only included him to add width. I.e not bring him as a striker. But if Forrest is fit, then we don't need that as much.

[Tartan Chris]

I think it will be two young uns and two who've been in and around the squad for last 18 months. So I think Palmer will be in ahead of Patterson but surely Gilmour would get in ahead of Fleck who was just about making the squad when he was playing really well for Sheffield in last two years before the disaster of this season. So don't see any logical reason how he'd get in now ahead of Gilmour who'll be in squads for next 10 years, Clarke must think of that rather than just steady types who won't be called up much after this tournament unless they're in the starting 11.

Could see Burke just squeezing in if Fraser dosen't make it. Beyond Adams and Dykes it's much of a muchness. Shankland was being hyped up a year ago but now hardly mentioned as an option, Nisbet possible....think Griffiths will still be called up as would be a boost for him personally after his issues and he's shown before he can produce moments for Scotland so closest to McFadden in the present squad in final third although very much a bench option now.

[gkm_vancouver]

 

There's still a chance that Gilmour, Turnbull or Gauld could make the squad. If you compare with the last squad of 26 where he has now lost Jack, McLean and McBurnie. That leaves a possible 3 midfield/forward places assuming he keeps the same general formations. Burke, Griffiths and Forrest didn't make the squad last time. Taylor didn't even get on the bench, Considine made the bench but no game time and Palmer got 10mins v Faroes.  

He's got Cooper back now and hopefully Fraser and Tierney will still be ok. I reckon there is a good chance Cooper could replace either Taylor or Considine. That still leaves 3 slots for which Forrest, Griffiths, Gilmour, Turnbull and Gauld stand a chance.

Goalkeepers: Craig Gordon (Hearts), David Marshall (Derby), Jon McLaughlin (Rangers)

Defenders: Andrew Considine (Aberdeen), Declan Gallagher (Motherwell), Grant Hanley (Norwich City), Jack Hendry (KV Oostende), Scott McKenna (Nottingham Forest), Stephen O'Donnell (Motherwell), Liam Palmer (Sheffield Wednesday), Andy Robertson (Liverpool), Greg Taylor (Celtic), Kieran Tierney (Arsenal)

Midfielders: Stuart Armstrong (Southampton), Ryan Christie (Celtic), John Fleck (Sheffield United), Ryan Jack (Rangers), John McGinn (Aston Villa), Callum McGregor (Celtic), Kenny McLean (Norwich City), Scott McTominay (Manchester United)

Forwards: Che Adams (Southampton), Lyndon Dykes (Queens Park Rangers), Ryan Fraser (Newcastle), Oli McBurnie (Sheffield United), Kevin Nisbet (Hibernian)

[Tartan blood]

To put a bit of perspective on Turnbull winning Young player of the year twice. This century, only Tierney has won the award more than once (3 times). Arguably our best player.

But if you look back at the previous winners, it's actually a pretty decent indicator of success. The likes of Denayer, Kent, Robertson, Forrest, McCarthy, McGeady, Griffiths, Maloney, Naismith, McFadden, Petrov all won that award, and had/have fantastic careers.

There are exceptions, like Riordan, Danny Wilson, and Goodwillie, but they weren't necessarily unsuccessful due to a lack of talent, just unfulfilled potential. 

Turnbull could not have done more to include himself in this squad. But time will tell with him.

[SteveHFC]

If Nisbet isn't in the squad and the likes of Burke are. Clarke must go!. 

[Bino's]

Gordon
Patterson
Hanley
Tierney
Robertson
Mctominay
Gilmour
Mcginn
Fraser
Adams
Armstrong
Marshall
O'Donnell
Gallagher
Cooper
Taylor
Fleck
McGregor
Gauld
Christie
Dykes
Turnbull
McLaughlin
McKenna
Forrest
Nisbet

[Texas Pete]

1 hour ago, SteveHFC said:

If Nisbet isn't in the squad and the likes of Burke are. Clarke must go!. 

Even if we go to the Euros and do well? 

International managers are judged on results not on whether or not they pick players that people less qualified then them want in the squad. 

Burke is injured anyway so he won’t be in the squad. 

[ceudmilefailte]

Gilmour will be in the squad, losing Jack and McLean guarantees this. I refuse to believe Clarke has any other option.

I would have Gauld in to play the second striker role that Fraser and Christie have done recently if needed. And also as an option of the bench for the attacking midfield role that McGinn has played for us. We could end up force to play McGinn deeper.

I would hate to see Dykes and Adams start up front together. 

Pretty sure Patterson won't make it. 

I'm finding it hard to put a squad together when a lot of our best players can play more than one position. Could just about get by with 16 players that would cover all 11 positions twice

[ProudScot]

1 hour ago, Bino's said:

Gordon
Patterson
Hanley
Tierney
Robertson
Mctominay
Gilmour
Mcginn
Fraser
Adams
Armstrong
Marshall
O'Donnell
Gallagher
Cooper
Taylor
Fleck
McGregor
Gauld
Christie
Dykes
Turnbull
McLaughlin
McKenna
Forrest
Nisbet

Thats a good squad. Jack Hendry in place of Taylor though as we don’t need a 3rd left back 

[scotlad]

12 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

So the question would be who will Clarke take in place of Patterson, Gilmour, Turnbull and Gauld? There is no Dalglish-esque, McGrain-esque ot Souness-esque players that will miss out to include these. The exact opposite actually.

The sad thing is, it's probably more likely that we'll see the likes of Palmer, Taylor, Shinnie and Callum Paterson in the squad than any of those players. 🙄

[Texas Pete]

13 minutes ago, scotlad said:

The sad thing is, it's probably more likely that we'll see the likes of Palmer, Taylor, Shinnie and Callum Paterson in the squad than any of those players. 🙄

I could be wrong but I don’t think Clarke has ever called up Shinnie has he? 

A lot of people seem certain that he’s going to get named in the squad tomorrow for some reason. 

Paterson has only ever been brought in by Clarke as injury cover as far as I remember so I’ll be surprised if he makes the squad. 

[Blantyre_Braveheart]

I know he probably won't make it but I'm surprised no one has picked Rooney in their squads over Palmer.

A big powerhouse maraudering full back, with a decent shot and good in the air from set pieces.

 

I'd rather N.Patterson over both but his suspension has killed him and Clarke seems a bit too pragmatic to pick an inexperienced 19 year old, over an ageing relegation fodder championship (sorry now league 1) RB. If Patterson isn't going to get a shot, then I'd rather see a guy like Rooney than the very definition of squad filler in Liam Palmer.

 

For me Clarke has to think long term here. Guys like Palmer and C.Paterson (maybe less so) will struggle to get moves out of Sheff Wed and will most likely playing in League 1 next season.

Edited May 19, 2021 by Blantyre_Braveheart

[theabsentee]

5 hours ago, ProudScot said:

Thats a good squad. Jack Hendry in place of Taylor though as we don’t need a 3rd left back 

Cheers you've saved me the bother writing mine. Just the same one change for me, I'd happily assist you with that squad ProudScot 😉😁

[Scotty CTA]

I'd like to see Gilmour and Patterson in the squad because I want our best players, regardless.

(Sentimental pick would be Considine.)

[bossman4]

4 hours ago, Scotty CTA said:

I'd like to see Gilmour and Patterson in the squad because I want our best players, regardless.

(Sentimental pick would be Considine.)

Considine isn't going to go at the expense of Patterson. Papers saying its a choice between Considine and Cooper. No disrespect to Considine but it shouldn't even be a debate. Cooper potentially starts for me never mind being in the squad. 

[Squirrelhumper]

14 hours ago, SteveHFC said:

If Nisbet isn't in the squad and the likes of Burke are. Clarke must go!. 

Especially as Burke is injured. 

That said, I'll trust the guy who got us to a major tournament for first time in 23 years and not an internet forum..