Your Scotland squad (and first XI) for Euro 2020

[Texas Pete]

3 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Apologies but I'm not sure what you mean. We are ending up with players that are prepared to come to Scotland simply to get a wage. None of them are good enough for the championship that is why they are here. Does this make us the third richest league in the U.K

Similarly I haven’t the faintest idea what you are talking about. I think we may be at crossed purposes.

[DAVIDB46]

Could Newcastle say to us fraser is still not fit and needs to get fit for next season. May not play before seasons end next week.

Didn’t Bruce question our medical procedures previously .

[Texas Pete]

29 minutes ago, DAVIDB46 said:

Could Newcastle say to us fraser is still not fit and needs to get fit for next season. May not play before seasons end next week.

Didn’t Bruce question our medical procedures previously .

They could certainly try but they’d need to be serious dicks to try and stop someone playing at a major tournament. 

He could genuinely not be fit though. He did have an operation I’m sure. 

[Tartan blood]

I've got a feeling a lot of us have slightly higher expectations for squad selection than we should (myself included). I.e quite a lot of people in the Tartan Army would select Gilmour, Turnbull, Gauld and Patterson. Realistically, that just isn't going to happen. Especially since Forrest will probably jump the queue, being back from injury.

So, to avoid disappointment, if 2 out of the 4 are selected, I'll accept that. 1 would be pushing it, but it'll depend who the 1 is.

[Third Lanark]

15 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I've got a feeling a lot of us have slightly higher expectations for squad selection than we should (myself included). I.e quite a lot of people in the Tartan Army would select Gilmour, Turnbull, Gauld and Patterson. Realistically, that just isn't going to happen. Especially since Forrest will probably jump the queue, being back from injury.

So, to avoid disappointment, if 2 out of the 4 are selected, I'll accept that. 1 would be pushing it, but it'll depend who the 1 is.

If yu look at the 26 currently on the SFA website then remove the injured Jack, McLean and McBurnie, then the remaining 3 are likely to go to Gilmour, Turnbull/Gauld and Forrest whom I think is a cert given his return to fitness and ability to cover for Fraser; there is no natural cover for the latter who is still injury-prone.

[Tartan blood]

42 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

If yu look at the 26 currently on the SFA website then remove the injured Jack, McLean and McBurnie, then the remaining 3 are likely to go to Gilmour, Turnbull/Gauld and Forrest whom I think is a cert given his return to fitness and ability to cover for Fraser; there is no natural cover for the latter who is still injury-prone.

I totally agree that those are who should be the replacements, but Clarke might not see it that way. 

O.Burke, Shankland, and C.Paterson have all been regulars in his squads. Like for like, Gilmour makes the most sense, but Clarke has demonstrated his reluctance to include young players with a lack of game time before. It's not inconceivable that none of the 4 I mentioned will be picked.

[Third Lanark]

5 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I totally agree that those are who should be the replacements, but Clarke might not see it that way. 

O.Burke, Shankland, and C.Paterson have all been regulars in his squads. Like for like, Gilmour makes the most sense, but Clarke has demonstrated his reluctance to include young players with a lack of game time before. It's not inconceivable that none of the 4 I mentioned will be picked.

On the other hand he did bring in Nisbet and suprised many of use by recruiting Adams so he's not quite the stubborn so-and-so some think. Be very shocked if Shankland or C. Paterson gets in ahead of Nisbet. Burke is already ruled out with injury. And there is no one who can cover for Jack or McLean except Gilmour. No one.

[Taylor1996]

1 hour ago, Tartan blood said:

I've got a feeling a lot of us have slightly higher expectations for squad selection than we should (myself included). I.e quite a lot of people in the Tartan Army would select Gilmour, Turnbull, Gauld and Patterson. Realistically, that just isn't going to happen. Especially since Forrest will probably jump the queue, being back from injury.

So, to avoid disappointment, if 2 out of the 4 are selected, I'll accept that. 1 would be pushing it, but it'll depend who the 1 is.

I think there will be wholesale disappoint. 

I have this feeling that none of the 0 capped players (Turnbull, Gauld, Gilmour, Patterson, etc) will be called up.

[Tartan blood]

21 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

On the other hand he did bring in Nisbet and suprised many of use by recruiting Adams so he's not quite the stubborn so-and-so some think. Be very shocked if Shankland or C. Paterson gets in ahead of Nisbet. Burke is already ruled out with injury. And there is no one who can cover for Jack or McLean except Gilmour. No one.

I don't think he is that stubborn. He has consistently called up players from left field like Considine, Hanlon, Porteous etc . Generally, I can understand why he has chosen who he has in the past.

The one big gripe I had last time was that he only chose 25 players plus an injured Jack. That was bizarre. Especially with the Euros so close. You'd have thought he would have chsoen a bigger squad to have a look at some fringe players first hand. That is why I am scared he has already made up his mind on the 4 previously mentioned. It's only because of the injuries we've had that I am hopeful some may be included.

[Caledonian Craig]

To me it is clear that Clarke is a reincarnation of Craig Brown in that he is petrified of change and will stick with who he knows. Too safe and not adventurous enough with selections.

[breeks_mctavish]

42 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

I think there will be wholesale disappoint. 

I have this feeling that none of the 0 capped players (Turnbull, Gauld, Gilmour, Patterson, etc) will be called up.

Big call, I hope you are wrong. Clarke does like to play the loyalty card but above all he is a pragmatist. I think his hand has been forced a bit with injuries to Jack and McLean. Also Fraser has not been fit for a while now. That and larger squads being available make me think he’ll select 3 of those with Patterson missing out as there have been no injuries at right back and Patterson had been suspended.
 

But I’m holding my breath as I could be completely wrong. 

[Taylor1996]

10 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

To me it is clear that Clarke is a reincarnation of Craig Brown in that he is petrified of change and will stick with who he knows. Too safe and not adventurous enough with selections.

Is that true? People say that, but I don't remember there being an abundance of talented young Scots under Brown's regime.

Who was there? Burchill, Jess, Booth, Wilkie, Gillies, Bernard, Crawford, Easton, etc?

Not exactly world beaters. Booth is the only one who had a mildly  successful career... and Jess was heralded as the Scottish wonderkid.

And didn't he brutally not select John McGinley even though his goal practically got us to Euro 96?

Edited May 17, 2021 by Taylor1996

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, Taylor1996 said:

Is that true? People say that, but I don't remember there being an abundance of talented young Scots under Brown's regime.

Who was there? Burchill, Jess, Booth, Wilkie, Gillies, Bernard, Crawford, Easton, etc?

Not exactly world beaters. Booth is the only one who had a mildly  successful career... and Jess was heralded as the Scottish wonderkid.

He resisted calling up the likes of Kenny Miller when he was banging in goals for Hibs and stuck with totally toothless and ageing strikers. That is the one that stands out in my head but I know there were other instances and is why Vogts had a complete rebuilding job to do.

[bossman4]

2 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

Is that true? People say that, but I don't remember there being an abundance of talented young Scots under Brown's regime.

Who was there? Burchill, Jess, Booth, Wilkie, Gillies, Bernard, Crawford, Easton, etc?

Not exactly world beaters. Booth is the only one who had a mildly  successful career... and Jess was heralded as the Scottish wonderkid.

He gave Barry Ferguson his debut in September 98. 

[Taylor1996]

Just now, breeks_mctavish said:

Big call, I hope you are wrong. Clarke does like to play the loyalty card but above all he is a pragmatist. I think his hand has been forced a bit with injuries to Jack and McLean. Also Fraser has not been fit for a while now. That and larger squads being available make me think he’ll select 3 of those with Patterson missing out as there have been no injuries at right back and Patterson had been suspended.
 

But I’m holding my breath as I could be completely wrong. 

I hope I am wrong, too.

Even more so because I'd have Gilmour and Gauld in my first XI, never mind the squad. 

I have a feeling that Fraser and Forrest will make the cut, too. Those two, I wouldn't mind, but not at the expense of Gauld or Gilmour.

[Taylor1996]

10 minutes ago, bossman4 said:

He gave Barry Ferguson his debut in September 98. 

And?

He was 20/21.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Taylor1996

[Taylor1996]

2 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

He resisted calling up the likes of Kenny Miller when he was banging in goals for Hibs and stuck with totally toothless and ageing strikers. That is the one that stands out in my head but I know there were other instances and is why Vogts had a complete rebuilding job to do.

France 98?

Well, I didn't have any complaints with Darren Jackson, Durie and Gallagher. The only real eyeraiser was leaving out McCoist. Wouldn't have been my choice.

People use the Dad's Army thing as a stick to beat Graig Brown with, but what Scottish players were the Old Firm bringing through? Gerry Greaney? David Hagen? Gary McSwegen?

Awful.

Craig Brown got a bunch of players together and the unity was that on a club side and he got us to two finals. Should've been three as we murdered England in '99.

I think it's a culture thing. You think the Italians care if their squads are always averaged at 30+?

[Tartan blood]

10 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

He resisted calling up the likes of Kenny Miller when he was banging in goals for Hibs and stuck with totally toothless and ageing strikers. That is the one that stands out in my head but I know there were other instances and is why Vogts had a complete rebuilding job to do.

If I remember correctly, the youngest players at France 98 were 24 years old. Donnelly and McNamara (I'd need to check that). And I don't think either started any games.

Let's hope Clarke doesn't have the same approach as Brown.

[Caledonian Craig]

7 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

France 98?

Well, I didn't have any complaints with Darren Jackson, Durie and Gallagher. The only real eyeraiser was leaving out McCoist. Wouldn't have been my choice.

People use the Dad's Army thing as a stick to beat Graig Brown with, but what Scottish players were the Old Firm bringing through? Gerry Greaney? David Hagen? Gary McSwegen?

Awful.

Craig Brown got a bunch of players together and the unity was that on a club side and he got us to two finals. Should've been three as we murdered England in '99.

I think it's a culture thing. You think the Italians care if their squads are always averaged at 30+?

After 1998 is more my thinking. That 1998 World Cup Finals appearance was very disappointing to put it mildly yet Brown stuck with the same flops and refused to look beyond his inner circle or look to develop players. Cracking manager but that proved his downfall and left us in a rut. Vogts took over a decrepit squad with players at the end of their careers and somewhat of a vacuum to fill. That is why his tenure was seen as a disaster.

[Taylor1996]

11 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

If I remember correctly, the youngest players at France 98 were 24 years old. Donnelly and McNamara (I'd need to check that). And I don't think either started any games.

Let's hope Clarke doesn't have the same approach as Brown.

Donnelly didn't get a sniff.

I think the wingbacks were Dailly and Burley. I think McNamara started the Morocco match, though.

[Taylor1996]

17 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

After 1998 is more my thinking. That 1998 World Cup Finals appearance was very disappointing to put it mildly yet Brown stuck with the same flops and refused to look beyond his inner circle or look to develop players. Cracking manager but that proved his downfall and left us in a rut. Vogts took over a decrepit squad with players at the end of their careers and somewhat of a vacuum to fill. That is why his tenure was seen as a disaster.

I know the Morocco match looks like a pounding (it seemed it at the time) but watching it again, we should've won. If I remember correctly, at least 2 of their goals were defensive mistakes.

It just think it was what it was. I'm sure Brown would've loved to have freshener up the squad, but he had no options. Steve Clarke doesnt have that excuse. He has a player playing amazingly well in the Portugese Primeira Liga, a player who is a generational player at Chelsea, and Turnbull looks like Gary McAllister incarnate.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Taylor1996

[Tartan blood]

2 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

I know the Morocco match looks like a pounding (it seemed it at the time) but watching it again, we should've won. If I remember correctly, at least 2 of their goals were defensive mistakes.

It just think it was what it was. I'm sure Brown would've loved to have freshener up the squad, but he had no options. Steve Clarke doesnt have that excuse. He has a player playing amazingly well in the Portugese Primeira Liga, a player who is a generational player at Chelsea, and Turnbull looks like Gary McAllister incarnate.

Graig Brown's tenure was seen as a disaster? Really? Even now? Just shows how opinions differ, i felt fortunate to grow up in that era... even though I did take qualifying for tournaments for granted.

I think he was talking about Vogts, not Brown, having a "disaster".

For Brown, if it really was a lack of options, fair enough. And based on the player pool Vogts had to work with, you'd probably be right. He was forced to play teenagers like Fletcher and McFadden. Though that worked out well.

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, Taylor1996 said:

I know the Morocco match looks like a pounding (it seemed it at the time) but watching it again, we should've won. If I remember correctly, at least 2 of their goals were defensive mistakes.

It just think it was what it was. I'm sure Brown would've loved to have freshener up the squad, but he had no options. Steve Clarke doesnt have that excuse. He has a player playing amazingly well in the Portugese Primeira Liga, a player who is a generational player at Chelsea, and Turnbull looks like Gary McAllister incarnate.

Graig Brown's tenure was seen as a disaster? Really? Even now? Just shows how opinions differ, i felt fortunate to grow up in that era... even though I did take qualifying for tournaments for granted.

I am not saying his tenure was a disaster, far from it, but the later years was a downhill slope and he failed to spot it and make changes sticking with the old guard even though there were promising players around. The old guard were finished but he carried on flogging dead horses rather than look to the future.

[Caledonian Craig]

3 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I think he was talking about Vogts, not Brown, having a "disaster".

For Brown, if it really was a lack of options, fair enough. And based on the player pool Vogts had to work with, you'd probably be right. He was forced to play teenagers like Fletcher and McFadden. Though that worked out well.

Correct I was saying Vogts reign was seen as a disaster.

[Taylor1996]

3 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I think he was talking about Vogts, not Brown, having a "disaster".

For Brown, if it really was a lack of options, fair enough. And based on the player pool Vogts had to work with, you'd probably be right. He was forced to play teenagers like Fletcher and McFadden. Though that worked out well.

Ah. Thanks for the head's up. I deleted the end of my post.

yeah. Brown wasn't playing with a good bunch of kids at the time.