League over....

[Return of Yermaw]

11 hours ago, Rolling hIlls said:

Why do you hate Gerrard?

As a player he was often cowardly and dived a lot. Some fans hated him for those reasons compounded by the fact that many commentators glossed over these flaws and gushed about him.

[KirkieRobRoy]

Season's hardly over. Still a race to be top real Scottish club now that the Union Jack Club seem to have beaten the Irish Club to the title...

 

puts on tin hat and hides

[Fairbairn]

12 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

What do you do if you are the Celtic board now? I think its fair to say that Lennon wont be the manager next season and that several of the bigger assets will be looking to move on.

Do you sack Lennon now and give the new manager 6 months to bed in and get ready for the Champions League qualifiers? Do you sell the assets now and try and get in replacements to give them time to settle aswell?

Aberdeen are only 5 points behind having played a game more. Should they make abit of investment to tey and get an unlikely 2nd place which in turn could transform their finances?

I think the most likely scenario is to keep Lennon on but announce he will leave at end of season. Do nothing on players, some leave in summer and Celtic then really struggle in qualifierd due to a new manager and not having replacements in and up to speed.

If they sell the assets now it's admitting defeat and I don't think the fans would accept that.  They practically torched the place when they got knocked out of a cup for the first time in 4 years so there's no way they'd tolerate the board meekly accepting 10 isn't happening, even if the majority of people know it.  It wouldn't surprise me if see a Robbie Keane/Craig Bellamy type signing this month on a short term loan.

[Diamond Scot]

1 hour ago, Fairbairn said:

If they sell the assets now it's admitting defeat and I don't think the fans would accept that.  They practically torched the place when they got knocked out of a cup for the first time in 4 years so there's no way they'd tolerate the board meekly accepting 10 isn't happening, even if the majority of people know it.  It wouldn't surprise me if see a Robbie Keane/Craig Bellamy type signing this month on a short term loan.

James McCarthy springs to mind.

Pretty much all Celtic fans I know want the rebuild to happen now. The league is gone. Not even a chance of winning it. 

That being said its the more vocal Celtic fans you speak of that would take umbridge to selling of any assets right now so you are probably correct.

I just think if they could bring in somebody like Eddie Howe it would give him 6 months to settle, have a look at the players and start the rebuild rather than wait until summer.

[aaid]

16 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

James McCarthy springs to mind.

Pretty much all Celtic fans I know want the rebuild to happen now. The league is gone. Not even a chance of winning it. 

That being said its the more vocal Celtic fans you speak of that would take umbridge to selling of any assets right now so you are probably correct.

I just think if they could bring in somebody like Eddie Howe it would give him 6 months to settle, have a look at the players and start the rebuild rather than wait until summer.

The problem with changing manager part way through a season is that unless you can tempt a manager currently in employment and are prepared to pay the compensation then you are looking at managers currently jobless.  At the end of the season, contracts expire and so the number of potential candidates increase.  That's not to say that all managers that are jobless are somehow useless but a large number of them are jobless for a reason.

I see Eddie Howe being touted, presumably because he's available.

A couple of points about him.   He undoubtedly overachieved at Bournemouth and it was probably the right thing for them to part company.   However, one of the things that gets overlooked about him is that he's been manager of Bournemouth on two occasions as he had a short spell at Burnley in between.    

His time at Burnley wasn't a disaster as such, he finished slightly behind where they'd finished the previous season but then you have to take into account that his replacement was Sean Dyche and look at how successful he was with Burnley, so any problems there don't appear to have been with Burnley per se.  Clearly he's an older and more experienced manager now though.

I've always formed the opinion that Howe was something of a home bird and that he was just comfortable at Bournemouth, that he suited the club and the club suited him.

If I were a Celtic fan, I'd have concerns about how capable he would be in managing a club like Celtic, off the field more so than on the field, particularly with the need to rebuild the squad and the lack of patience from the fans who would be looking for an instant turnaround in the face of a resurgent Rangers.  That's not to even start to consider the increased level of media scrutiny and criticism that comes with the job.

If you look at what he did at Bournemouth, it was to build a squad over a number of seasons in a steady and methodical manner, put bluntly he won't get the same time at Celtic.

[Redz]

4 hours ago, aaid said:

The problem with changing manager part way through a season is that unless you can tempt a manager currently in employment and are prepared to pay the compensation then you are looking at managers currently jobless.  At the end of the season, contracts expire and so the number of potential candidates increase.  That's not to say that all managers that are jobless are somehow useless but a large number of them are jobless for a reason.

I see Eddie Howe being touted, presumably because he's available.

A couple of points about him.   He undoubtedly overachieved at Bournemouth and it was probably the right thing for them to part company.   However, one of the things that gets overlooked about him is that he's been manager of Bournemouth on two occasions as he had a short spell at Burnley in between.    

His time at Burnley wasn't a disaster as such, he finished slightly behind where they'd finished the previous season but then you have to take into account that his replacement was Sean Dyche and look at how successful he was with Burnley, so any problems there don't appear to have been with Burnley per se.  Clearly he's an older and more experienced manager now though.

I've always formed the opinion that Howe was something of a home bird and that he was just comfortable at Bournemouth, that he suited the club and the club suited him.

If I were a Celtic fan, I'd have concerns about how capable he would be in managing a club like Celtic, off the field more so than on the field, particularly with the need to rebuild the squad and the lack of patience from the fans who would be looking for an instant turnaround in the face of a resurgent Rangers.  That's not to even start to consider the increased level of media scrutiny and criticism that comes with the job.

If you look at what he did at Bournemouth, it was to build a squad over a number of seasons in a steady and methodical manner, put bluntly he won't get the same time at Celtic.

Spot on (Wow! Couldn't ever see me saying that about one of your football posts 😉)

Get him in now then as a wee bit more disruption and entertainment from either side of Glasgow will be welcomed by most 

 

[Diamond Scot]

4 hours ago, aaid said:

The problem with changing manager part way through a season is that unless you can tempt a manager currently in employment and are prepared to pay the compensation then you are looking at managers currently jobless.  At the end of the season, contracts expire and so the number of potential candidates increase.  That's not to say that all managers that are jobless are somehow useless but a large number of them are jobless for a reason.

I see Eddie Howe being touted, presumably because he's available.

A couple of points about him.   He undoubtedly overachieved at Bournemouth and it was probably the right thing for them to part company.   However, one of the things that gets overlooked about him is that he's been manager of Bournemouth on two occasions as he had a short spell at Burnley in between.    

His time at Burnley wasn't a disaster as such, he finished slightly behind where they'd finished the previous season but then you have to take into account that his replacement was Sean Dyche and look at how successful he was with Burnley, so any problems there don't appear to have been with Burnley per se.  Clearly he's an older and more experienced manager now though.

I've always formed the opinion that Howe was something of a home bird and that he was just comfortable at Bournemouth, that he suited the club and the club suited him.

If I were a Celtic fan, I'd have concerns about how capable he would be in managing a club like Celtic, off the field more so than on the field, particularly with the need to rebuild the squad and the lack of patience from the fans who would be looking for an instant turnaround in the face of a resurgent Rangers.  That's not to even start to consider the increased level of media scrutiny and criticism that comes with the job.

If you look at what he did at Bournemouth, it was to build a squad over a number of seasons in a steady and methodical manner, put bluntly he won't get the same time at Celtic.

I dont disagree with your assessment as such. I mentioned Howe just because he has been touted.

One thing I would pick up on though is that managers dont generally leave clubs in the summer in the same way players do. Managers contracts dont tend to run down. More often than not a manager starts a new job either when he is currently out of work or when he leaves his current job to go elsewhere.

That being said compensation shoupdnt be an issue for any potential Celtic manager. Its unlikely they could attract a manager at a top club in any event so whoever they choose they could afford. My point being that the process should start sooner rather than later.

Will be interesting to see what route they go down. I cant see them going Scottish, I also cant seeing them for an inexperienced manager.

So that leaves former player who hasnt set the managerial heather on fire like Larsson / Lambert or another manager whose stock has maybe fallen slightly like Howe.

[aaid]

16 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

I dont disagree with your assessment as such. I mentioned Howe just because he has been touted.

One thing I would pick up on though is that managers dont generally leave clubs in the summer in the same way players do. Managers contracts dont tend to run down. More often than not a manager starts a new job either when he is currently out of work or when he leaves his current job to go elsewhere.

That being said compensation shoupdnt be an issue for any potential Celtic manager. Its unlikely they could attract a manager at a top club in any event so whoever they choose they could afford. My point being that the process should start sooner rather than later.

Will be interesting to see what route they go down. I cant see them going Scottish, I also cant seeing them for an inexperienced manager.

So that leaves former player who hasnt set the managerial heather on fire like Larsson / Lambert or another manager whose stock has maybe fallen slightly like Howe.

I've seen Howe touted elsewhere and Celtic fans getting excited over that so I was mentioning him in response to that, not specifically your post.  I'm not suggesting Howe isn't a good manager, he is, just that I suspect he needs the right sort of club where he can quietly get on with his work and that club isn't Celtic.

The one big problem that Celtic and Rangers - to a lesser degree - have in attracting managers is that outwith Scotland, the view of the SPFL is that the standard isn't particularly high - that's probably unfair - and that with the difference in budget they have over the other clubs, winning the league isn't considered as an achievement as such, rather it's expected - which I think is a fair viewpoint.

So for the OF, while they can probably match salaries for all but the biggest European clubs they are going to basically be looking at three sorts of managers - young, relatively unproven managers - Gerrard would fall into this category, as would have been Lennon in his first spell - managers who have been successful at either another SPFL club or in one or more other Leagues of a similar or lower level to the SPFL, e.g Mowbray, Caixinha and Delia or a more experienced manager who's career has been derailed and is looking for an opportunity to get it back on track - and Rodgers is a great example of that.   

Off the top of my head, I can only think of two occasions when the OF were able to attract relatively high profile, experienced managers who were in demand at the time - O'Neill and Advocaat.

[Fairbairn]

3 hours ago, aaid said:

Off the top of my head, I can only think of two occasions when the OF were able to attract relatively high profile, experienced managers who were in demand at the time - O'Neill and Advocaat.

I'd maybe add Paul Le Guen to that.  His stock was very high when we got him after a few good years at Lyon.  That went well.

[aaid]

28 minutes ago, Fairbairn said:

I'd maybe add Paul Le Guen to that.  His stock was very high when we got him after a few good years at Lyon.  That went well.

I wondered about Le Guen, he had been successful at Lyon, no doubt about it but he had been out of the game for a year when he went to Rangers.  Personally, I think he was over hyped, not least by Murray and his subsequent career tends to support that.

Regardless, I think the point still stands about the sort of managers that the OF can reasonably be expected to attract and the market they are in.

[Rolling hIlls]

Rangers took a gamble on Gerrard.  Maybe his standing in the game would attract better players etc.  But it seems to have paid off  so far.  At the end of the day it is a gamble.  Le Guen didn't work and probably cost Rangers a fortune.  I still haven't heard a decent replacement name for Lennon yet.  

[ErsatzThistle]

Didn't Le Guen have a number of people at Ibrox working against him from the second he took the job ?

[Fairbairn]

2 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Didn't Le Guen have a number of people at Ibrox working against him from the second he took the job ?

I think there’s 2 sides to that story. 

[killiefaetheferry]

Just remember, there are two sides to every story.