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Scott Banks


Taylor1996

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6 hours ago, theabsentee said:

I agree with a lot of what you say here,  I don't like slating any player but i think it's quite obvious due to how their careers have stagnated that players such as Middleton, Maguire, McLennan &  2 or 3 others who started in Greece will never be good enough to step up to senior level yet they still stayed mainstays of the under 21 team during qualification while players with much more potential such Banks, Soutter, Turnbull & even Nathan Patterson where either benched or not selected at all. 

   Surely forward thinking associations don't let that happen. 

   As for Banks he still has time to commit, though maybe due to the style of player he is if he has been getting tapped up by the likes of Bale & Giggs so no amount of online love from the TA will make the lad see sense😬

     

This is spot on, can never understand why some players continually get picked at that sort of age range, where they are perhaps coming to the end of their time at 21 level and have stagnated a bit at club level, but still seem to get picked for their 'experience' at 21 level. If you look through all the countries or clubs throughout Europe, they continually play their best young players with the most potential a level up. And let's be honest the step up from 19s to 21s for the best players isn't a great jump which is what the likes of Gilmour and Patterson have proved. I have followed Scott Banks for a while and there is no doubt he is at least as good as some of the players that have been mentioned like Middleton and MacLennan but he is younger with more potential so disappointed if we lose him now.

 

On a side note the Welsh fans have noted that because we do have a bigger pool of players in Scotland it does give them a chance at times to nip in ahead and offer say a 19s player under 21 football whereas in our set up he would have to wait a while longer before making that step up.  

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23 hours ago, ProudScot said:

So just to confirm we are arguing over calling up a guy who’s never really played but is about to go on loan to Dunfermline 

And Wales have capped a player (Dylan Levitt) four times, even though he's only played four times in professional league football, for Charlton, in League One.

Besides, Alan McGregor was on loan at Dunfermline when he was 21. Didn't do him any harm.

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2 hours ago, Taylor1996 said:

And Wales have capped a player (Dylan Levitt) four times, even though he's only played four times in professional league football, for Charlton, in League One.

Besides, Alan McGregor was on loan at Dunfermline when he was 21. Didn't do him any harm.

It didn’t do him any harm no.

We also didn’t cap him till he had some first team experience at a decent level 

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7 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

It didn’t do him any harm no.

We also didn’t cap him till he had some first team experience at a decent level 

Well, we could. A few minutes against the Faroe Islands wouldn't be too bad. Besides, it's not just about capping him, it's also to make him feel wanted.

This is where I miss the "B" internationals.

Might be a knee-jerk reaction on my part, but after losing Souttar to Australia, it would be another kick in the teeth if we lost banks... Especially if he turns out to be good. 

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8 hours ago, GHfaeGTA said:

Completed a loan move to Dunfermline. Would expect him to do well in Championship. Would have loved to have seen him back at Tannadice 

I thought he was tearing it up at Crystal Palace in the EPL 2, why the move to Dunfermline?

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13 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Epl2 is poor standard and they look like glorified training matches. He will learn alot more playing for dunfermline in competitive football games. 

Thanks

So those getting their fannies in a twist about this guy were doing so for no real reason.

👍🏻

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Yes. Let's all write-off a 19 year old because he's joined a Scottish Championship side on loan. (From an established EPL team)

Better yet, let's all make a time machine and leap back to when a 19 year old David Beckham joined English Third Division Preston, and tell him that he has no future as a footballer.

Edited by Taylor1996
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2 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Thanks

So those getting their fannies in a twist about this guy were doing so for no real reason.

👍🏻

Alot of ppl on here get excited by young lads at epl or big Euro teams but it really means nothing until they start playing meaningful football matches and we get to see them in an adult environment.

Epl2 is just youth football and is so far down from the standard of the proper epl football or even spl imo. 

It is good to have young players at epl clubs but reality is very few will make it. 

I reckon this dunfermline move could be good for banks. Will give him a taste of first team football and having to get results against fully grown men. 

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3 hours ago, Taylor1996 said:

Yes. Let's all write-off a 19 year old because he's joined a Scottish Championship side on loan. (From an established EPL team)

Better yet, let's all make a time machine and leap back to when a 19 year old David Beckham joined English Third Division Preston, and tell him that he has no future as a footballer.

Nobody wrote him off.

 

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3 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Alot of ppl on here get excited by young lads at epl or big Euro teams but it really means nothing until they start playing meaningful football matches and we get to see them in an adult environment.

Epl2 is just youth football and is so far down from the standard of the proper epl football or even spl imo. 

It is good to have young players at epl clubs but reality is very few will make it. 

I reckon this dunfermline move could be good for banks. Will give him a taste of first team football and having to get results against fully grown men. 

Its not meaningless. It means that top clubs have seen potential in Scottish players. At that stage its only potential but better to have more kids judged as having potential than none.

I think we place too much weight on 1st team football at a young age. It can be detrimental. More often than not it teaches kids to do what works on the day in order to get the result rather than doing the right thing which on the day might not. However further down the line when the kid tries the same result based thing it doesnt work because the standard is higher. By that stage its much much harder to learn the right thing.

Very basic example would be a kid facing up an older more seasoned pro at lower level when the scores 1 each in a competive match. He knows he can just kick the ball past and run as he is faster so he does that to win his team the game. Great, he is a hero and seen as a good player. Only problem is that when he moves up levels the defenders are just as fast and thus everything he has done for years doesnt work anymore.

Youth football is about being coached in the art of football. Not about winning.

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2 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

 

Youth football is about being coached in the art of football. Not about winning.

Spot on, no idea how the rest of the world works but the win at all cost attitude is killing us, not just at youth level but at senior level too.

It's been going on for years and any one who has been involved with youth football will agree.

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3 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

Its not meaningless. It means that top clubs have seen potential in Scottish players. At that stage its only potential but better to have more kids judged as having potential than none.

I think we place too much weight on 1st team football at a young age. It can be detrimental. More often than not it teaches kids to do what works on the day in order to get the result rather than doing the right thing which on the day might not. However further down the line when the kid tries the same result based thing it doesnt work because the standard is higher. By that stage its much much harder to learn the right thing.

Very basic example would be a kid facing up an older more seasoned pro at lower level when the scores 1 each in a competive match. He knows he can just kick the ball past and run as he is faster so he does that to win his team the game. Great, he is a hero and seen as a good player. Only problem is that when he moves up levels the defenders are just as fast and thus everything he has done for years doesnt work anymore.

Youth football is about being coached in the art of football. Not about winning.

I would say playing Epl2 football is meaningless in terms of showing whether a player can cut it at a decent level. It's nice that epl clubs are buying Scottish youth players but the evidence shows that very few make it at epl or top European clubs. 

We have had 1 youth player(mctominay) come through at an epl youth set up in the last 15 years. It will be 2 if Gilmour makes it permanently at Chelsea. So 1 or 2 players out of 30 or 40 is not a good success rate. 

Youth football is all very good up until a certain age but once a player hits 18 or 19 it's much more important for them to get first team football where games really matter and fully grown men are playing for their livelihoods. 

Playing first team football at a lower level of football has done our young players alot more good than pissing about in some epl/big clubs youth set up. 

Guys like Mcginn, robertson, Tierney, Fraser, Armstrong, Marshall, christie all benefitted from playing first team football for smaller clubs in relatively poor leagues. In fact every decent player we have has come through at small clubs where they got first team experience. Only exception to the rule is mctominay. 

I would agree with you if you could name 6 or 7 guys who had come through at epl youth set ups in the last 15 years but the evidence shows that not to be the case. 

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36 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

I would say playing Epl2 football is meaningless in terms of showing whether a player can cut it at a decent level. It's nice that epl clubs are buying Scottish youth players but the evidence shows that very few make it at epl or top European clubs. 

We have had 1 youth player(mctominay) come through at an epl youth set up in the last 15 years. It will be 2 if Gilmour makes it permanently at Chelsea. So 1 or 2 players out of 30 or 40 is not a good success rate. 

Youth football is all very good up until a certain age but once a player hits 18 or 19 it's much more important for them to get first team football where games really matter and fully grown men are playing for their livelihoods. 

Playing first team football at a lower level of football has done our young players alot more good than pissing about in some epl/big clubs youth set up. 

Guys like Mcginn, robertson, Tierney, Fraser, Armstrong, Marshall, christie all benefitted from playing first team football for smaller clubs in relatively poor leagues. In fact every decent player we have has come through at small clubs where they got first team experience. Only exception to the rule is mctominay. 

I would agree with you if you could name 6 or 7 guys who had come through at epl youth set ups in the last 15 years but the evidence shows that not to be the case. 

1 youth player come through in an EPL youth set up in 15 years?

McTominay, Cairney, Bannan, McBurnie (sadly), Burke, Cooper - theres probably more than that. 

Admittedly not at top clubs barring McTominay but there’s undoubtedly more Scottish youth players at better clubs now or being snapped up at a young age.

If they make it is still unknown at this stage but the more you have at top clubs training & improving, the better the chances are that some will. 

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53 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

I would say playing Epl2 football is meaningless in terms of showing whether a player can cut it at a decent level. It's nice that epl clubs are buying Scottish youth players but the evidence shows that very few make it at epl or top European clubs. 

We have had 1 youth player(mctominay) come through at an epl youth set up in the last 15 years. It will be 2 if Gilmour makes it permanently at Chelsea. So 1 or 2 players out of 30 or 40 is not a good success rate. 

Youth football is all very good up until a certain age but once a player hits 18 or 19 it's much more important for them to get first team football where games really matter and fully grown men are playing for their livelihoods. 

Playing first team football at a lower level of football has done our young players alot more good than pissing about in some epl/big clubs youth set up. 

Guys like Mcginn, robertson, Tierney, Fraser, Armstrong, Marshall, christie all benefitted from playing first team football for smaller clubs in relatively poor leagues. In fact every decent player we have has come through at small clubs where they got first team experience. Only exception to the rule is mctominay. 

I would agree with you if you could name 6 or 7 guys who had come through at epl youth set ups in the last 15 years but the evidence shows that not to be the case. 

Ignoring that proudscot has just listed some off the top of his head, your point about decent players we have kind of is what im getting at.

Over past 25 years we have been brilliant at producing decent players but hopeless at producing top players. Hopefully thats starting to change but id take a sucess rate of 1 in 40 if it meant that the 1 eas of the standard of Darren Fletcher, Scott McTom or Billy Gilmour. 

If we had produced a Gareth Bale or a Robbie Keane then we would reguarly qualify.  Pretty much every country in Europe has produced a real top top player in the past 30 years but us. 

What exactly do you think a top top young player learns from playing QoS or Dundee?(take Phil Foden as an example for taking sake) 

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1 hour ago, ProudScot said:

1 youth player come through in an EPL youth set up in 15 years?

McTominay, Cairney, Bannan, McBurnie (sadly), Burke, Cooper - theres probably more than that. 

Admittedly not at top clubs barring McTominay but there’s undoubtedly more Scottish youth players at better clubs now or being snapped up at a young age.

If they make it is still unknown at this stage but the more you have at top clubs training & improving, the better the chances are that some will. 

Cooper never came through an epl clubs youth set up. He was at Hull city when they were in the epl but he had to drop down to league 1 and league 2 level to get experienceand has spent his career at championship and league 1 before he has finally made the jump up to the epl this season. If anything he helps prove my point. 

Burke never made it at an epl youth set up either. He came through at Nottingham forest when they were in the championship then failed at rb and west brom when he could of been playing and getting experience at a lower level. He's going to be playing championship next season and has failed to live up to the hype. 

McBurnie never made it at Swansea when they were in the epl, he had to go out to Barnsley and other lower league teams which he helped his career massively. What really helped his career was getting a season with Swansea in the championship which resulted in an epl team buying him. Hes actually another example that shows why getting first team experience at a lower level helps players. 

Fair enough Barry bannan came through while Aston villa were in the epl and he played a fair amount of games. 

You have just named a group of players that prove my point. You need to research these guys careers. None apart from mctominay and bannan has come through an epl youth set up and made it directly at an epl team. Most had to drop down a level first before they made it. 

Edited by mccaughey85
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44 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

Ignoring that proudscot has just listed some off the top of his head, your point about decent players we have kind of is what im getting at.

Over past 25 years we have been brilliant at producing decent players but hopeless at producing top players. Hopefully thats starting to change but id take a sucess rate of 1 in 40 if it meant that the 1 eas of the standard of Darren Fletcher, Scott McTom or Billy Gilmour. 

If we had produced a Gareth Bale or a Robbie Keane then we would reguarly qualify.  Pretty much every country in Europe has produced a real top top player in the past 30 years but us. 

What exactly do you think a top top young player learns from playing QoS or Dundee?(take Phil Foden as an example for taking sake) 

See above. None of those players  apart from bannan and mctominay made it in the epl from their clubs youth set ups. A player will learn more from playing first team football at a lower level than playing Epl2 even if it's spl. 

The evidence clearly shows that by the fact you can barely name more than 2 or 3 players that have made it at epl first teams straight from the youth set up in the last 15 years. 

Phil foden is a special talent who get played because he's clearly good enough even at his young age, same as Gilmour. I am all for our young players going to big Euro clubs if they will play in the first team. If they are just going to sit in the youth set up then it's not that great and I would prefer they went to a team that will give them first team opportunities. Like Hickey for example, he wouldn't of seen any first team football had he gone to bayern. Bologna might be a lesser team but hes getting first team experience there. 

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8 hours ago, vanderark14 said:

Nobody wrote him off.

 

Rather sounds like you just did:

"So those getting their fannies in a twist about this guy were doing so for no real reason."

By the sounds of that, you were suggesting that the player isn't good, not does he have the potential of being good enough to play for Scotland.

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