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Tommy Docherty RIP


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3 minutes ago, Orraloon said:

One of the greatest characters ever to be involved in Scottish football. I could never tire if listening to him talking about football. Guys like him just don't exist in football any more.

Great player. Probably better player than a manager but definitely box office. 

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Are there any Scotland players from the 1950s world cups still alive now with the death of Docherty ?

I had hoped he'd still be alive for when we kicked off against England next year.

He did have a notorious reputation for spinning tall tales with him telling many variations of different events from his career and which sometimes were completely made up. For example, he claimed for years that he made over a hundred appearances for Celtic as a young man but in truth he only played a handful of games for them.

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He was a better manager for Scotland than Ormond who replaced him. He was a man the Tartan Army would have got fully behind if he'd stayed a bit longer.

But why has there not been a thread for the other guy who died - the guy who should have been Scotland manager but the SFA didn't have the courage to ask him? (Parallels with the English FA and Brian Clough.) The guy who didn't suffer cheek from insolent BBC reporters. The one and only Jim McLean...

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1 hour ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Are there any Scotland players from the 1950s world cups still alive now with the death of Docherty ?

Even with the Doc's passing there are still a few players from the 54 squad alive (according to Wikipedia) although several of them never travelled to Switzerland due to SFA lunacy.

Only Doug Cowie is left from the 58 squad.

 

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56 minutes ago, Arbroath1320 said:

He was a better manager for Scotland than Ormond who replaced him. He was a man the Tartan Army would have got fully behind if he'd stayed a bit longer.

But why has there not been a thread for the other guy who died - the guy who should have been Scotland manager but the SFA didn't have the courage to ask him? (Parallels with the English FA and Brian Clough.) The guy who didn't suffer cheek from insolent BBC reporters. The one and only Jim McLean...

You mean this thread:

 

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3 hours ago, Burj_Alba said:

Terrible news. Didn't always agree with him but as someone said above box office and always worth listening to. 

favourite Docherty qoute.

when Alan Rough was up for transfer from Thistle Doc said. "100,000 wouldn't buy Roughie and I am one of them" 

Loads more RIP

He told another version of that one where Derek Parlane is the player involved.

Like I said, Docherty was notorious for stretching the truth or just inventing stuff if it made for a good story. 

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On 12/31/2020 at 8:50 PM, ErsatzThistle said:

He told another version of that one where Derek Parlane is the player involved.

Like I said, Docherty was notorious for stretching the truth or just inventing stuff if it made for a good story. 

So you're saying he should have been a politician?

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On 12/31/2020 at 8:50 PM, ErsatzThistle said:

Like I said, Docherty was notorious for stretching the truth or just inventing stuff if it made for a good story. 

He didn't half, I dug out Hampden Babylon earlier to read the chapter on the Doc. Forgot that he was lucky not to be jailed for perjury after lying under oath when he had taken Willie Morgan to court to sue him for libel.

 

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47 minutes ago, Toepoke said:

He didn't half, I dug out Hampden Babylon earlier to read the chapter on the Doc. Forgot that he was lucky not to be jailed for perjury after lying under oath when he had taken Willie Morgan to court to sue him for libel.

 

Paddy Crerand has said in the past that Docherty was the biggest liar he'd ever met and that he had no respect for him.

Don't think Denis Law was all that keen on Docherty either.

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1 hour ago, ErsatzThistle said:

Don't think Denis Law was all that keen on Docherty either.

Yes their relationship broke down over Law's free transfer. 

The book also mentions that Docherty, while Man Utd manager, was given a doing by Man City fans on a train from London (required over 20 stitches in a gashed leg - different times!)

Allegedly Denis was on the same train and ignored the incident. 

 

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Actually this one just came back to me. My dad's pal was at Billy Abercrombie's testimonial dinner circa 1990. The Doc was star turn and it seems to have been an uproarious evening, but at the end of the night he got all serious, stood up and said...

"Look, I realise times are hard, and having heard everything tonight I've decided to donate all my fee to Billy Abercrombie."

The room broke out into huge spontaneous applause. 

"...But, you all know how much of a f***ing liar I am."

 

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3 hours ago, Orraloon said:

He was an entertainer. A teller of tales. He embellished some of them and invented others. Nothing wrong with that. He was very good at it.

Em, yes there is.

Hence the difficulties Docherty got himself into with Willie Morgan.

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The story of his day in court against Willie Morgan.

Docherty does not come out of it at all well. An arrogant bully who fell apart when someone finally stood up to him.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/willie-morgans-autobiography-suing-tommy-2640608

Quote

 

I AM Willie Morgan. I played for the biggest club in the world, I was the first footballer to have his own fan club, I took the No.7 shirt off George Best and I played in the best-ever Scotland side.

So what do most people ask me about? Tommy Docherty suing me. Yes, that’s right, Docherty sued Granada TV and me for libel and it nearly broke me – financially and mentally.

I had been invited to appear on Kick Off, which was a football chat show broadcast in the north west on Granada on Friday nights. So in I went and Gerald Sinstadt asked who was the best manager I had worked for.

I said I had played for the best and worst, the best being Sir Matt Busby and the worst being Docherty. I said Docherty was the worst manager there had ever been.

A couple of weeks later I got a letter from Granada’s solicitors telling me solicitors acting on behalf of Docherty intended to sue for libel.

We treated it as a bit of a joke and expected it to all go away. But it went on and on as letters passed to and from
solicitor to solicitor. At no point did I see Docherty or have any direct communication with him.

We had to collect testimonials from the likes of Denis Law, Paddy Crerand, Jim Holton, Lou Macari and other people connected to the club. They all gave their honest opinion about Docherty and his managerial style.

We eventually got a date for the court case at the Old Bailey and I had to go down to see my barrister, John Wilpshire.

As part of my defence, I was making 29 allegations against Docherty in order to prove my case.

My QC was deadly serious when he said to me: “These accusations are serious. If you lose, and there is a very good chance you might, it could be very expensive. You’ll be wiped out and probably lose your house.

“However, I am fully confident that as soon as his team see the evidence we have, and the statements we will produce, they’ll drop it.”

So you can imagine my surprise when, two weeks later, I was called back down to London to see Wilpshire. His face told me all I needed to know even before he spoke. On the first morning of the trial he told me: “I am going to question Mr Docherty and every time he lies, I want you to give a little tug on my gown.”

After half-an-hour the gown had nearly been pulled off it had been tugged so many times.

Docherty was laughing, cracking gags, spinning yarns like he didn’t have a care in the world.

Next my QC went over Docherty’s evidence, pointing out all the inaccuracies and contradictions.

He was brilliant and I could see the colour drain from Docherty’s face. This went on for about two hours then my barrister suddenly looked at Tommy and, after hearing his contradictory account regarding his treatment of Denis Law, said: “You told a pack of lies to the jury about this, didn’t you?”

Docherty seemed to shrug his shoulders and said: “Yes, it turned out this way, yes.”

It was incredible. On the third day, Docherty’s barrister said his client was dropping the case.

The ordeal is one of the worst times in my life and the stress on my family was incredible. But it was worth it in the end.

 

 

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On 1/5/2021 at 10:40 AM, Orraloon said:

He was an entertainer. A teller of tales. He embellished some of them and invented others. Nothing wrong with that. He was very good at it.

 

We have a few on here who do the same but certainly aren’t entertaining 😜

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2 hours ago, McTeeko said:

So was he pumping the physio’s wife or no.....?

I would say it's highly likely considering they got married and stayed together for the rest of his life. Can't say for certain though as I never actually saw them at it. :lol:

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2 hours ago, ErsatzThistle said:

The story of his day in court against Willie Morgan.

Docherty does not come out of it at all well. An arrogant bully who fell apart when someone finally stood up to him.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/willie-morgans-autobiography-suing-tommy-2640608

 

To be fair, Willie Morgan started it. Tommy Doc overreacted, which is what folk with big egos and low moral principles do, sometimes. A couple of overpaid prima donnas in a willie waving competition. Good tabloid entertainment. 

 

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3 hours ago, Orraloon said:

I would say it's highly likely considering they got married and stayed together for the rest of his life. Can't say for certain though as I never actually saw them at it. :lol:

Aw! Didn’t realise they ended up together! Thought it was just a wee fling 🙈

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