Billy Gilmour

[ProudScot]

30 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Agree about the attitude. Hell, even England fast-tracked the likes of Sancho and Foden before they were properly established at their clubs and no doubt it aided their development.

But in Scotland? You have to have played 200 games so there's time to call you pish before being capped.

Nathan PaTTerson and Gilmour would undoubtedly enhance our quality.

Hudson Odoi is a better example.

He played for England before he started for Chelsea.

Its very classic us to have potentially outstanding young players but to pick reasonable 28-30 year olds.

Whats also important is to remember the play off was a long time ago and a few from that squad and even that starting team have barely played since, played poorly or are currently injured. 

It’s not to say Patterson, Hickey, Gilmour, Turnbull or anyone else has to be in our squad, however, between the triple header & our two pre tournament friendlies you’d expect them all to be capped at some point. 

[er yir macaroon]

25 minutes ago, mccaughey85 said:

Foden had played 2 seasons worth of football at man city before he was capped. Are you suggesting we just cap some kid because he plays a couple of games for his club. We would be capping thirty or more youngsters every year in that case and our first team would be a joke. 

Gilmour is being considered for a call up to the squad and rightly so, if he was at any other epl team outside the top 6 he would he a starter. 

Patterson is no for me, he needs a run of games before calling him up. Playing a few appearances off the bench for rangers is not justification for a call up despite us having poor options at rb. 

 

If Patterson can get 10 starts between now and the end of the season and looks assured I would be inclined to take him to the Euros. The goal he scored the other night was not surprising given his attributes, these being the reason people are excited about him. He’s got a great first touch, plays with his head up, quite tall and blistering pace. O’Donnell couldn’t have scored that goal, albeit he’s solid enough in defence and good on set pieces.  For Patterson it’s just getting streetwise quick enough that is his problem (provided his recent behaviour was an aberration). 

[aaid]

7 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Hudson Odoi is a better example.

He played for England before he started for Chelsea.

 

That's not strictly correct and misrepresents the situaiton.

He made a handful of substitute appearances toward the end of the previous season.  He actually made his starting debut  in the Community Shield at the start of that season.  Was a regular member of the first team squad, had started in the FA Cup and Europa League and made a number of league appearances from the bench.  It was his EPL debut 

Also, his capping was a bit unusual, he was called up to the squad from the under 21s due to call-offs.  He'd literally only made his debut for the 21s a couple of days before.   He came on after 70 minutes in a game that England were winning 4-0 at the time.   He was also eligible for Ghana and at the time had been subject to a bid from Bayern Munich, so that might have had a bearing on England wanting to get him capped.

A completely different scenario from Gilmour.

Personally, I'd have Gilmour in the squad for the upcoming games, although can understand why Clarke may want to go with the squad that's qualified for the Euros.

[mccaughey85]

20 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

Hudson Odoi is a better example.

He played for England before he started for Chelsea.

Its very classic us to have potentially outstanding young players but to pick reasonable 28-30 year olds.

Whats also important is to remember the play off was a long time ago and a few from that squad and even that starting team have barely played since, played poorly or are currently injured. 

It’s not to say Patterson, Hickey, Gilmour, Turnbull or anyone else has to be in our squad, however, between the triple header & our two pre tournament friendlies you’d expect them all to be capped at some point. 

Not sure where your getting your info from but Hudson odoi had started for Chelsea and had loads of appearances for them before being capped by England. He also was eligible for Ghana so England probably wanted to tie him down. He's also a huge prospect who has had top European clubs after him. 

I agree we need to get young players involved quicker but patterson has only played 180 mins of football for rangers this season. From a non rangers point of view it would be mad to call him up based on that. If that was the criteria for a Scotland call up then I could name thirty guys off the top of my head who could be called up in the last year or so. 

[mccaughey85]

7 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

If Patterson can get 10 starts between now and the end of the season and looks assured I would be inclined to take him to the Euros. The goal he scored the other night was not surprising given his attributes, these being the reason people are excited about him. He’s got a great first touch, plays with his head up, quite tall and blistering pace. O’Donnell couldn’t have scored that goal, albeit he’s solid enough in defence and good on set pieces.  For Patterson it’s just getting streetwise quick enough that is his problem (provided his recent behaviour was an aberration). 

Yeh I agree, hopefully Gerrard lets this guy of the leash and then clarke will be forced to make a decision. Its a race against time for the lad but Taverniers injury has given him a golden opportunity to go to a major tournament. 

[Diamond Scot]

I think the main question for Gilmour and Patterson is whether its likely that they will be better than what we have. Theres no point capping youngsters that its touch and go whether they will be any good or not.

For me theres no question that Gilmour will be a top midfielder and there is zero risk and loads of benefits of getting him involved in the squad asap.

Pattersons not quite so cut and dry. He has potential but I wouldnt say its a certainty that he will break into the Rangers team and become a main player for Scotland. However what goes in his favour is that rwb is a position that we are really lacking. For that reason I dont see the harm in calling him up as back up to ODonnell. I however would rather call Hickey up for that role as he more closely ticks the same boxes as Gilmour. 

[ProudScot]

10 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

Not sure where your getting your info from but Hudson odoi had started for Chelsea and had loads of appearances for them before being capped by England. He also was eligible for Ghana so England probably wanted to tie him down. He's also a huge prospect who has had top European clubs after him. 

I agree we need to get young players involved quicker but patterson has only played 180 mins of football for rangers this season. From a non rangers point of view it would be mad to call him up based on that. If that was the criteria for a Scotland call up then I could name thirty guys off the top of my head who could be called up in the last year or so. 

My information is the facts haha. Do you not remember it was all over sky sports a couple years back how he’d never started in the premiership but then got his first England cap - google it if you’ve forgotten.

Quite similar to Patterson who’s played a few games in Europe and came off the bench in the league. 

[vanderark14]

Isn't it great to be able to argue about whether we should take up and coming youngsters with us to the euros? 😁. Wasn't so long ago we were all down at the lack of players coming through. 

Patterson us in a unique situation, we have limited options at RWB/RB so it's likely he will go if he continues to play for Rangers before the season ends. He played 45 mins the other night, he came on for some guy I've never heard of, is Patterson 3rd choice RB at Rangers?

 

[ProudScot]

46 minutes ago, vanderark14 said:

Isn't it great to be able to argue about whether we should take up and coming youngsters with us to the euros? 😁. Wasn't so long ago we were all down at the lack of players coming through. 

Patterson us in a unique situation, we have limited options at RWB/RB so it's likely he will go if he continues to play for Rangers before the season ends. He played 45 mins the other night, he came on for some guy I've never heard of, is Patterson 3rd choice RB at Rangers?

 

He’s the back up right back. Balogun who played the first half there is a centre back

[er yir macaroon]

13 hours ago, Diamond Scot said:

I think the main question for Gilmour and Patterson is whether its likely that they will be better than what we have. Theres no point capping youngsters that its touch and go whether they will be any good or not.

For me theres no question that Gilmour will be a top midfielder and there is zero risk and loads of benefits of getting him involved in the squad asap.

Pattersons not quite so cut and dry. He has potential but I wouldnt say its a certainty that he will break into the Rangers team and become a main player for Scotland. However what goes in his favour is that rwb is a position that we are really lacking. For that reason I dont see the harm in calling him up as back up to ODonnell. I however would rather call Hickey up for that role as he more closely ticks the same boxes as Gilmour. 

Hickey doesn’t have the blistering pace of Patterson, and would also be on the bench at Rangers. He is getting great experience though which puts him ahead in the short term. 

[Diamond Scot]

45 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

Hickey doesn’t have the blistering pace of Patterson, and would also be on the bench at Rangers. He is getting great experience though which puts him ahead in the short term. 

Patterson may very well turn out to be better than Hickey but at this moment in time Hickey has more game experience in Scotland, has earned a move to a top european league and has played a good number of games despite being younger. 

Patterson is purely potential at the moment. The same could possibly be said of Gilmour however the fact Gilmours coming through a better academy system and playing at a higher standard alongside his outstanding performances whenever he has played sets him apart for me.

[er yir macaroon]

1 hour ago, Diamond Scot said:

Patterson may very well turn out to be better than Hickey

As a right back. I think Hickey could end up in central midfield on account of his two footedness and modest pace. 

[Tartan blood]

On 2/27/2021 at 11:38 AM, mccaughey85 said:

Yeh I agree, hopefully Gerrard lets this guy of the leash and then clarke will be forced to make a decision. Its a race against time for the lad but Taverniers injury has given him a golden opportunity to go to a major tournament. 

The only way Patterson is going to the tournament is if there is a covid/injury crisis. There is very little Patterson could do between now and the Euros that would force Clarke's hand, even if he played every game.

Like Hickey and Gilmour, this tournament will come too soon for him. But it is incredible how many players of his ilk are breaking through every other week. It wasn't so long ago that we'd scarcely have 1 decent looking prospect appear every couple of years.

[Caledonian Craig]

Sad to see Gilmour not even on the bench for Chelsea today.

[bazmidd]

17 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Sad to see Gilmour not even on the bench for Chelsea today.

What is goimg on there btw! Jorginho is out so the obvious replacement is Gilmour, a playmaker and great passer, but he puts in Kante and Gilmour doesn't even make the bench! That sums it up, Tuchel clearly doesn't trust him or rate him highly enough, he should have left in January for the sake of his own career

[Caledonian Craig]

1 minute ago, bazmidd said:

What is goimg on there btw! Jorginho is out so the obvious replacement is Gilmour, a playmaker and great passer, but he puts in Kante and Gilmour doesn't even make the bench! That sums it up, Tuchel clearly doesn't trust him or rate him highly enough, he should have left in January for the sake of his own career

You will get no argument from me there.

[mccaughey85]

4 minutes ago, bazmidd said:

What is goimg on there btw! Jorginho is out so the obvious replacement is Gilmour, a playmaker and great passer, but he puts in Kante and Gilmour doesn't even make the bench! That sums it up, Tuchel clearly doesn't trust him or rate him highly enough, he should have left in January for the sake of his own career

Let's hope some other big club buys him in the summer. Chelsea have fukked his chances of going to the euros. 

[noctonjock]

That Tuchel wont be in the job long anyway . 

[breeks_mctavish]

Looks like a big mistake by Gilmour to have stayed in January. No idea if Tuchel indicated he would get more game time than he actually has but he clearly doesn’t rate him as highly as Lampard did. The short term approach Chelsea have with sacking managers doesn’t lend itself to developing players, even though that might be in Chelsea’s long term interest (look at great young players they have lost in the past - Robben, Salah, De Bruyne). Tuchel probably realises he won’t be there in 2 years so will choose the most risk free and easy approach for now and to be fair it’s worked out for him so far. Anyway, I hope Gilmour learns his lesson and leaves in the summer (even if on loan), though it will be too late for the Euros by then 

[ProudScot]

Can you leave on loan outside the window? 

Possibly a stupid question but hopefully for Gilmours sake you can. 

[Shaundy]

Wether the new management outstays Gilmour at Chelsea is to be seen . Still love that this young man is a Scotland player. 

[Diamond Scot]

This is the kind of situation where I feel Scottish players are abit too nice and compliant.

Either he was told at end of window that he would get more game time or he was told club wouldnt let him go out on loan as they need the backup incase if injuries.

Either way he should now be banging down the managers door and dare I say getting his agent on the phone to other clubs to at least cause abit of mischief.

Unfortunetly the world we live in now doesnt reward ppl who wait their turn etc as more often than not life is unfair.

[Third Lanark]

I still say it's not too big a risk to take him and thereby put him in the shop window. Wales would have given him a dozen caps by now. And the 2 Irelands. He's clearly comfortable playing at a high level as long as he stays fit. 

[er yir macaroon]

19 hours ago, breeks_mctavish said:

Looks like a big mistake by Gilmour to have stayed in January. No idea if Tuchel indicated he would get more game time than he actually has but he clearly doesn’t rate him as highly as Lampard did. The short term approach Chelsea have with sacking managers doesn’t lend itself to developing players, even though that might be in Chelsea’s long term interest (look at great young players they have lost in the past - Robben, Salah, De Bruyne). Tuchel probably realises he won’t be there in 2 years so will choose the most risk free and easy approach for now and to be fair it’s worked out for him so far. Anyway, I hope Gilmour learns his lesson and leaves in the summer (even if on loan), though it will be too late for the Euros by then 

You make a big assumption that Gilmour had an option to go on loan. 

[breeks_mctavish]

17 minutes ago, er yir macaroon said:

You make a big assumption that Gilmour had an option to go on loan. 

It was widely reported that Southampton approached Chelsea to take him on loan. Also, a number of other clubs were said to be keen. I can't verify the reports, but he seemed to decide to stay following talks with Tuchel on transfer deadline day.

Edited March 1, 2021 by breeks_mctavish