English Whores

[davy-hay]

Wonder what the dogg would do im this situation 

[mccaughey85]

1 hour ago, Archiesdad said:

McLean will probably make way for Gilmour in that case 

Part of ally MacLeod's errors was sticking with tried and tested, 

Pick the guys on form at the time 

McLean will defo be in the squad. No way Clarke is getting rid of a guy who's scored the winning pens in our shoot outs. 

[SkyBlueScot]

He doesn't fit in to the original category but I wondered if the result would change the mind of youngsters who weren't committed. I was specifically thinking of Dembele.

[Caledonian Craig]

7 minutes ago, SkyBlueScot said:

He doesn't fit in to the original category but I wondered if the result would change the mind of youngsters who weren't committed. I was specifically thinking of Dembele.

No. We know Adams and Dembele aren't interested. The only reason they will say yes now is because they see the chance to massage their egos with an appearance as an independent at a major international football tournament.

[ProudScot]

1 hour ago, mccaughey85 said:

McLean will defo be in the squad. No way Clarke is getting rid of a guy who's scored the winning pens in our shoot outs. 

McLean is going to be out till April 

[mccaughey85]

9 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

McLean is going to be out till April 

Still reckon he will get picked if he's back playing early April. 

[ProudScot]

3 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

That was done to death at the time. His manager and Clarke agreed at the time that there was no point a half fit player being called up.

He then had a 45 minute jog in a pre season friendly to aid his recovery.

Do I argue with every one? I thought it was just the McBurnie bashers.

McBurnie is rightly criticised based on performances as as all our players - equally they are praised when it’s deserved which has also happened very recently.

Getting aggressive over the keyboard is just a bit sad and pathetic though

[ceudmilefailte]

27 minutes ago, ProudScot said:

McBurnie is rightly criticised based on performances as as all our players - equally they are praised when it’s deserved which has also happened very recently.

Getting aggressive over the keyboard is just a bit sad and pathetic though

Calling it sad and pathetic is even more sad and pathetic, so there.

[ceudmilefailte]

3 hours ago, mccaughey85 said:

I think it would be unfair on the guys who got us to the euros to let someone like Che Adams decide he wants to play for us just because we are going to a tournament. If he's still interested after the euros then let him come in then. 

Pretty much the way I see it.

[Super_Scotlandfan]

Adams is a bit different compared to other granny rule English born players. 
 

According to Wikipedia his dad is Antiguan so we can probably assume his whole family from that side is Caribbean. He will be considering representing Antigua too. 
 

We have no idea how much of an affinity he has to England. He might feel as Scottish as he does English. It’s also not clear how the previous chats were left. 
 

If he wants to play for us then fair enough for me. 
 

Also the centre forwards apart from Dykes haven’t done enough to not drop them for a fully committed Adams. We shouldn’t call them up just because they ‘helped’ us qualify. Pick the best players available. 

[Caledonian Craig]

6 hours ago, Super_Scotlandfan said:

Adams is a bit different compared to other granny rule English born players. 
 

According to Wikipedia his dad is Antiguan so we can probably assume his whole family from that side is Caribbean. He will be considering representing Antigua too. 
 

We have no idea how much of an affinity he has to England. He might feel as Scottish as he does English. It’s also not clear how the previous chats were left. 
 

If he wants to play for us then fair enough for me. 
 

Also the centre forwards apart from Dykes haven’t done enough to not drop them for a fully committed Adams. We shouldn’t call them up just because they ‘helped’ us qualify. Pick the best players available. 

Sorry I vehemently disagree. He quite obviously regards himself as English. He was born there and has lived all of his life there. Also he has represented England at U-20 level. And don't tell me he is holding out for an Antigua call - jeez they would have been in like a shot for an EPL player. It is far more likely they have enquired and he has blown them out as he holds out for his dream - an England call. And good luck to him on that as I admire a player who knows where his heart is and his nationality. Better that than prostituting himself for us I say.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Caledonian Craig

[er yir macaroon]

On 11/24/2020 at 7:02 PM, ceudmilefailte said:

If we continue with our current formation Adams won't score goals for us either, which suits me fine, at least it will get people of McBurnies back.

Not sure of how many of our not 100% purebred Scotsmen other Dykes have not been involved since a young age.

In my opinion any one who was asked in their 20's and said no should not be approached again. Teenagers are another matter.

 

Dykes is a 100% pure bred Scotsman. 

[er yir macaroon]

11 hours ago, SkyBlueScot said:

He doesn't fit in to the original category but I wondered if the result would change the mind of youngsters who weren't committed. I was specifically thinking of Dembele.

I think his lack of first team progress may change his mind for him. He supposedly lacks pace and with his small stature he is going to find it difficult to fulfill his early promise. That’s not to say he won’t be a good player, but I’m highly doubtful he’ll be an England International. 

[davy-hay]

a simple accent check would be a better way of doing this.

 

if someone sounds like Barry Ferguson then he should be in the team if good enough.

If someone sounds like Nigel Quashie then.. naw mate. awight?

 

if someone sounds like Harry Kane then it's hard to tell.

Edited November 26, 2020 by davy-hay

[ceudmilefailte]

4 hours ago, er yir macaroon said:

Dykes is a 100% pure bred Scotsman. 

Point was not his nationality more that our other players not born in Scotland had been involved since a young age.

 

[er yir macaroon]

21 minutes ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Point was not his nationality more that our other players not born in Scotland had been involved since a young age.

 

Ok, I was commenting on his genetics. 

[Diamond Scot]

So many here see nationality as black and white. Its possible however to see yourself as more than 1 nationality. In these circumstances it would only be logical to weigh up your own ability with the nationalities that you are eligable for. 

Dembele for example was getting touted as being a future star. With no strong feelings either way, whats wrong with him waiting to see how things play out. It may be that as he gets older and understands more about himself that he starts to feel strongly about 1 nation over others.

All that I care about is whoever plays for us gives 100% and we operate within the rules. Dykes has made us better and was a big part in getting us to the Euros. He is not Scottish in the eyes if the black and white brigade however who cares when we line up next summer.

[davy-hay]

40 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

So many here see nationality as black and white. Its possible however to see yourself as more than 1 nationality. In these circumstances it would only be logical to weigh up your own ability with the nationalities that you are eligable for. 

Dembele for example was getting touted as being a future star. With no strong feelings either way, whats wrong with him waiting to see how things play out. It may be that as he gets older and understands more about himself that he starts to feel strongly about 1 nation over others.

All that I care about is whoever plays for us gives 100% and we operate within the rules. Dykes has made us better and was a big part in getting us to the Euros. He is not Scottish in the eyes if the black and white brigade however who cares when we line up next summer.

exactly.   i'm half British and half Uranusian.  

 

i'm Arse-ish

[Caledonian Craig]

54 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

So many here see nationality as black and white. Its possible however to see yourself as more than 1 nationality. In these circumstances it would only be logical to weigh up your own ability with the nationalities that you are eligable for. 

Dembele for example was getting touted as being a future star. With no strong feelings either way, whats wrong with him waiting to see how things play out. It may be that as he gets older and understands more about himself that he starts to feel strongly about 1 nation over others.

All that I care about is whoever plays for us gives 100% and we operate within the rules. Dykes has made us better and was a big part in getting us to the Euros. He is not Scottish in the eyes if the black and white brigade however who cares when we line up next summer.

There are differences though with Adams as he has already pledged his allegiance to England playing for their U-20's and has been approached by Scotland on multiple occasions and turned the SFA down. Also was born in England and lived there all of his life and would guess you could count on the fingers of one hand how many times he has visited Scotland outwith football duties ie pre-season friendlies. Seems pretty damned obvious he has made up his mind where his allegiances lie. The SFA should stop harassing the bloke and let him concentrate on his goals in his football career. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Caledonian Craig

[Diamond Scot]

24 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

There are differences though with Adams as he has already pledged his allegiance to England playing for their U-20's and has been approached by Scotland on multiple occasions and turned the SFA down. Also was born in England and lived there all of his life and would guess you could count on the fingers of one hand how many times he has visited Scotland outwith football duties ie pre-season friendlies. Seems pretty damned obvious he has made up his mind where his allegiances lie. The SFA should stop harassing the bloke and let him concentrate on his goals in his football career. 

You maybe correct regardings Adams however none of us know the true feelings or the nature of the conversations.

For example its possible he was approached by both England and Scotland at youth level and elected England because a) he felt english and b) his mates all played for England. This doesnt mean he doesnt feel Scottish in anyway.

It maybe that he thought or hoped his career would take him to World class level where he could be Englands number 9 however as the years have gone on he may now feel thats unlikely and Scotland would be more his level. That would make us 2nd choice but doesnt mean he wouldnt be committed and give 100% for us.

Many a player grew up wanting to play for the Old Firm but werent good enough and then became legends at other clubs. I know Int football isnt exactly the same but life is complex. Some ppl dont fully appreciate a part of their life until a loved one dies for example.

As far as im aware he has never said a negative word about Scotland. If he wants to commit to us then I would consider him on merits the same as any other player. If his "lack of wanting to play for us, or us being his 2nd choice" leads to poor performances then just dont select him going forward.

[Caledonian Craig]

7 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

You maybe correct regardings Adams however none of us know the true feelings or the nature of the conversations.

For example its possible he was approached by both England and Scotland at youth level and elected England because a) he felt english and b) his mates all played for England. This doesnt mean he doesnt feel Scottish in anyway.

It maybe that he thought or hoped his career would take him to World class level where he could be Englands number 9 however as the years have gone on he may now feel thats unlikely and Scotland would be more his level. That would make us 2nd choice but doesnt mean he wouldnt be committed and give 100% for us.

Many a player grew up wanting to play for the Old Firm but werent good enough and then became legends at other clubs. I know Int football isnt exactly the same but life is complex. Some ppl dont fully appreciate a part of their life until a loved one dies for example.

As far as im aware he has never said a negative word about Scotland. If he wants to commit to us then I would consider him on merits the same as any other player. If his "lack of wanting to play for us, or us being his 2nd choice" leads to poor performances then just dont select him going forward.

I am sorry but you seem intent on convincing yourself Adams has some connection to Scotland.

He elected to play for England U-20 quite obviously because he feels like how he is - English. He was born in Leicester, England and has lived there all of his life and so to think he has any desire/wish to play for Scotland is kidding yourself. I really do hope he sticks to his principles and I would pat him on the back for that. The lad is English and wants to play for England and there is no other evidence to suggest otherwise.

I'd imagine he hasn't said anything negative about Scotland - so what? That does not mean for any moment that he has feelings towards the country or any wish to represent us. He has already displayed the lack of wanting to play for us by rejecting the SFA on multiple occasions and a local Southampton newspaper report has already openly said if he were to choose Scotland it would be his second option.

[weekevie04]

Good post, Craig.

The world is a smaller place and many of us have relations, live abroad, have wives/husbands from other countries and even relatives who are eligible for many nationalities. I have a pal who could play for Canada, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Scotland and USA!

I have no issue with anyone outwith Scotland playing for our national team, but there has to have been commitment from the get go and not just at a very convenient time e.g qualifying for a major tournament. As much as I am not keen on McBurnie as a player - he's gone through the under age teams for us ; you've got players like Jordan Archer who have played for us from 17s up to the full team ; Liam Palmer etc. Then you've got the likes of Graham Alexander, Don Hutchison who grew up Scottish in England, I wouldn't have the arrogance to tell them they cannot play for Scotland, they are obviously as Scottish as we all are. I used to work with a guy who was at school with Paul Devlin, and IIRC, his father was a Glaswegian, he grew up wearing all the Scotland gear, supporting us and identifying as Scottish and great for him, he played a few times for us.

We all love the likes of McTominay and there's no denying his connection and love for the national team.

Adams has to learn his stripes, it would be very unfair for him to be chucked in - even ahead of McBurnie, IMO - or right in to a Euro 2020 squad having not played any part of the qualifying. And let's remember, he's a young guy, I'm all for redemption, but he has turned us down! We should wait until after the Euros and if he's still keen to play for us in the rest of the WC qualifying campaign, friendlies or Nations League games again.

 

[Diamond Scot]

3 hours ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I am sorry but you seem intent on convincing yourself Adams has some connection to Scotland.

He elected to play for England U-20 quite obviously because he feels like how he is - English. He was born in Leicester, England and has lived there all of his life and so to think he has any desire/wish to play for Scotland is kidding yourself. I really do hope he sticks to his principles and I would pat him on the back for that. The lad is English and wants to play for England and there is no other evidence to suggest otherwise.

I'd imagine he hasn't said anything negative about Scotland - so what? That does not mean for any moment that he has feelings towards the country or any wish to represent us. He has already displayed the lack of wanting to play for us by rejecting the SFA on multiple occasions and a local Southampton newspaper report has already openly said if he were to choose Scotland it would be his second option.

As ive said previously I dont know the Adams situation but you are wrong as he clearly has a connection with Scotland or else he wouldnt be eligible to play for us. How strong that connection is neither you nor I know but just because he elected to play for England at youth level and declined earlier invites doesnt mean he wouldnt be proud to play for us.

Peoples choices change as they grow up and things in life move on. 

Alot of people like English teams when they were younger but as they mature they move away from that thinking.

Not speaking specifically about Adams but we cant just form opinions on people because they didnt want to play for us when they were still growing from boys to men.

Also, being somebodys second choice is in itself a negative. Would you turn down sex with a supermodel if her 1st choice wasnt available?

[gkm_vancouver]

8 minutes ago, Diamond Scot said:

 

Also, being somebodys second choice is in itself a negative. Would you turn down sex with a supermodel if her 1st choice wasnt available?

😆😆

[daviebee]

Give me players like Andy Considine before some nigel-come-lately who sees us as "more his level" or makes it clear we're his second choice.