Israel v Scotland Match thread

[Bino's]

6 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Get the ball up the park you don't need to defend. Are you saying he was at fault for tonights goal? 

Clearly

He back peddled and allowed the guy a run at him in the box

Cardinal sin of defending

 

[Toepoke]

3 hours ago, Burj_Alba said:

A play off place would be achieved if Italy, France, Spain and Belgium qualified, definitely not an impossible scenario.

And Wales or Austria (unless we'd won by a couple of goals).

 

[killiefaetheferry]

5 hours ago, kumnio said:

First half we played reasonably well, but the final ball was shite. Second half we were poor, apart from a small spell. 

Saying that, I think some people have went a bit OTT here, it’s not as bad as half the pish we have seen over the years. 

Disappointing end to the week, but we are slowly improving. 

An accurate assessment. Have a 'like'.

[weekevie04]

I missed a fair bit of the first half, but we looked OK-ish from the bits I saw. 

Second half, we dominated possession, but didn't do anything with it. A great big reality cheek for many, especially some pundits getting carried away after Serbia of how we might even get to the QFs etc. A huge wakeup call hopefully for them. 

Corners : how wasteful and horrible are we at that them? How many went on target? The actual whipping balls in most of the time were decent, and I really like Gallagher, but it would often just come crashing off his head and go sailing over. They are huge asset in football, and we really need to improve there. 

We don't look like scoring. Our record speaks for itself, we had huge parts of the ball in the second half, but didn't do anything with it or create anything. Some nice passing and build up play, but you can do that for hours on end and we'll still be waiting to score. 

Israel obviously invited us on to attack, and we couldn't break them down at all. 

The crashed bottle. We needed one win out of two, against the two lowest teams in the group and we couldn't do it. I can understand the highs of getting to the Euros on Thursday were fantastic, and the team had a short turn around of 3 away games in a row in 6 days, but its really disappointing that we couldn't get the job done.

[Caledonian Craig]

10 hours ago, Barney Rubble said:

Joe Craig's average will never be surpassed - a goal in his 21 minute international career v Sweden in 1977.

I am talking about goals en-mass and longevity. Not a flash in the pan.

 

[Barney Rubble]

1 minute ago, Caledonian Craig said:

I am talking about goals en-mass and longevity. Not a flash in the pan.

 

Lighten up - it was intended as a humorous aside.

[ParisInAKilt]

Maybe it was the 5am viewing time but I thought we played pretty shite last night 

[Taylor1996]

10 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

The way I'm trying to look at it is this system would be effective against stronger opposition. When we are hitting teams on the counter attack and inevitably have more space with our midfielders and wing backs overlapping. It'll work in the Euros, and now is absolutely the time to perfect the system. Not ideal against Isreal, but the bigger picture is the most important thing. This game will be forgotten.

I agree, I'd generally prefer McTominay to be in midfield, but a huge positive from tonight was seeing some excellent forward balls from both McTominay and Tierney, despite playing as CBs. They are great players to have to turn defence into attack quickly.

Yep. The bigger picture is the only important thing. This match was just another part of the process. In recent times, when we've lost, we haven't played well and deserved it. This time we played well and got beat. Might not seem like it, but it's symbolic that we ARE putting good performances together, back-to-back.

We just need to find a creative spark. Not to say we didn't make chances, because we did. O'Donnell could've hit a brace.

We might have to look at Gauld (who is scoring and assisting for a team bottom of the league), Lewis Morgan and Michael Johnstone, when he returns. 

Agreed. There was a 40 yard ball that McTominay pinged to, I think it was Tierney. He has talent. But yeah, i'd move him beside Jack and give McTominay more freedom to roam when we're in possession. He's great at carrying the ball forward.

[KirkieRobRoy]

Looking for positives is commendable but inevitably it's concerning that over thee games we scored once. And had no clean sheets.

 

We had two goes at winning our NL group and came up short in both. Closely mirroring the U21s - two goes, one would would do, but neither achieved.

 

Even scrappy wins would have built on the momentum of the Serbia result and qualification. We've lost a bit now.

 

We're going to have to improve massively to have any impact in Euro 20/21

[Caledonian Craig]

49 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Maybe it was the 5am viewing time but I thought we played pretty shite last night 

Nah. I have seen us create far less chances than that in my time and win games. Some aspects of our game was below standard for sure - the attacking third where we looked pretty toothless. We did create a number of chances but never took them that was the glaring obvious in the match. Clarke needs to make us more potent in front of goal. At the back we are far more secure now but we have an annoying trait to not press attackers outside our box allowing them to run at us and score. It is where we have conceded away in Slovakia, Israel and at home to Israel and if memory serves away to the Czechs.

[Taylor1996]

"Clarke needs to make us more potent in front of goal. "

He's a football manager, not a wizard.

Steve Clarke is bound by the strikers that he has at his disposal. So much so that he's using Christie as a false number 10.

If we took our chances, we would've won yesterday. So I'm not worried. We've strung 4/5 good performances back-to-back. Yes, we've lost two of those, but I honestly can't recall when when we've played as much in such a sustained amount of time.

It's progress. Losing is never fun, but sometimes you need to take one step back before you take two steps forward.

[ParisInAKilt]

42 minutes ago, Caledonian Craig said:

Nah. I have seen us create far less chances than that in my time and win games. Some aspects of our game was below standard for sure - the attacking third where we looked pretty toothless. We did create a number of chances but never took them that was the glaring obvious in the match. Clarke needs to make us more potent in front of goal. At the back we are far more secure now but we have an annoying trait to not press attackers outside our box allowing them to run at us and score. It is where we have conceded away in Slovakia, Israel and at home to Israel and if memory serves away to the Czechs.

Still wasn’t a very good performance against a below average team who could have scored again but it is what it is, progress is still being made and we have a decent foundation to build on, something that seemed highly unlikely a year ago 

[Caledonian Craig]

16 minutes ago, ParisInAKilt said:

Still wasn’t a very good performance against a below average team who could have scored again but it is what it is, progress is still being made and we have a decent foundation to build on, something that seemed highly unlikely a year ago 

It is like I have said all this week - Israel's have strengths where our weakness lies. They can park the bus and have a well-drilled defence whereas we have an attack that hardly has bucket loads of guile so you get where we have struggled to score against them. Israel don't get hammered by anyone at present. Heck even Czech Republic toiled to two 1-0 wins and that was with Israel having a player sent off.

[Tartan blood]

3 hours ago, Taylor1996 said:

Yep. The bigger picture is the only important thing. This match was just another part of the process. In recent times, when we've lost, we haven't played well and deserved it. This time we played well and got beat. Might not seem like it, but it's symbolic that we ARE putting good performances together, back-to-back.

We just need to find a creative spark. Not to say we didn't make chances, because we did. O'Donnell could've hit a brace.

We might have to look at Gauld (who is scoring and assisting for a team bottom of the league), Lewis Morgan and Michael Johnstone, when he returns. 

Agreed. There was a 40 yard ball that McTominay pinged to, I think it was Tierney. He has talent. But yeah, i'd move him beside Jack and give McTominay more freedom to roam when we're in possession. He's great at carrying the ball forward.

I do think there is a possibility all 3 of the guys you mentioned could end up in the next squad. I'm probably one of very few people that thought Morgan should have stayed at Celtic. But he obviously knew he'd get more game time elsewhere.

But will any of those players be more creative than Christie, Fraser or McGinn? Unlikely. I think what we need is to find a way to play all 3 at the same time. For that to happen I'd drop one of McGregor and Jack and play McGinn deeper. The formation is right, we just need to make sure we've picked the right players.

[Rolling hIlls]

7 hours ago, Bino's said:

Clearly

He back peddled and allowed the guy a run at him in the box

Cardinal sin of defending

 

The guy scored a great goal.  End of.

[Taylor1996]

6 minutes ago, Tartan blood said:

I do think there is a possibility all 3 of the guys you mentioned could end up in the next squad. I'm probably one of very few people that thought Morgan should have stayed at Celtic. But he obviously knew he'd get more game time elsewhere.

But will any of those players be more creative than Christie, Fraser or McGinn? Unlikely. I think what we need is to find a way to play all 3 at the same time. For that to happen I'd drop one of McGregor and Jack and play McGinn deeper. The formation is right, we just need to make sure we've picked the right players.

Hopefully Morgan comes back to Europe sooner rather than later.

We need player who are different, kind of like a bit of McFadden about them. Johnstone and Morgan does.

McGregor has impressed me, but i'd drop him for McTominay and give McTominay licence to roam, in possession, out of possession he'll form a double pivot with Jack. 

It's about surrounding Dykes with the right dynamic. We have Christie, Fraser, Forrest, Griffiths, McBurnie. Which are decent options. Add Johnstone, Morgan and hopefully Kennedy and Hepburn in the future.

[Tartan blood]

10 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

Hopefully Morgan comes back to Europe sooner rather than later.

We need player who are different, kind of like a bit of McFadden about them. Johnstone and Morgan does.

McGregor has impressed me, but i'd drop him for McTominay and give McTominay licence to roam, in possession, out of possession he'll form a double pivot with Jack. 

It's about surrounding Dykes with the right dynamic. We have Christie, Fraser, Forrest, Griffiths, McBurnie. Which are decent options. Add Johnstone, Morgan and hopefully Kennedy and Hepburn in the future.

I actually think both Christie and Fraser have that bit of magic that McFadden provided. Time will tell with them. You could argue Christie was man of the match in all of our last 3 games. Which is funny to think since Fraser probably would have started ahead of him if he'd been fit. Johnstone does have something special about him though, and still very young. He could be the long term replacement for Fraser.

 

[Return of Yermaw]

the current formation requires us to be clinical in front of goal; we don't have someone that is confident of scoring say 1 out of every 2 chances. we missed a host of chances over the last 2 games including by players who would bury the chance at club level (or at least make a better fist of it). Perhaps there is an anxiety when it comes to taking chances informed by how little we score - a catch 22 self perpetuating issue that can hopefully be addressed by giving a team at some point a right good humping and then taking it from there.......

[er yir macaroon]

17 hours ago, ceudmilefailte said:

Griffiths is well worth half an hour.

Like it or not McBurnie and Dykes are pretty much the same player and neither will ever score many goals. They both had one shot each at goal(Dykes had none in the Serbia game) But you still need one of them on the pitch so if you play another striker  with either of them you can only play one of Christie, McGinn or Fraser

Dykes and McBurnie are nothing like the same player. 

[bigfingers]

We struggle when we have to try and break down teams who like to sit, keep their shape and not take many risks. The euros will suit us because we will be the ones sitting in, keeping our shape and trying to hit on the counter attack. That's why I would put Fraser in because he's quick, he links up well with dykes and will get us further up the pitch.

[er yir macaroon]

I don’t agree we created lots of chances in the last few games, at least clear cut ones. It’s a worry but I do think the players looked a bit leggy. It’s a very good thing that we have three world cup qualifiers in March. We’ll have players highly motivated to play well to get in the Euro 23 man squad. So win-win hopefully.

I’m not seeing a way to play Fraser, Christie and Dykes in the same team (with three at the back). McGinn isn’t as good as McGregor or Jack when played deeper. I do think Forrest would also be well suited to supporting Dykes, he’s very good at scoring from a central position. 

[Bino's]

3 hours ago, Rolling hIlls said:

The guy scored a great goal.  End of.

No it was pish defending end of

[ThistleWhistle]

6 hours ago, Taylor1996 said:

Yep. The bigger picture is the only important thing. This match was just another part of the process. In recent times, when we've lost, we haven't played well and deserved it. This time we played well and got beat. Might not seem like it, but it's symbolic that we ARE putting good performances together, back-to-back.

We just need to find a creative spark. Not to say we didn't make chances, because we did. O'Donnell could've hit a brace.

We might have to look at Gauld (who is scoring and assisting for a team bottom of the league), Lewis Morgan and Michael Johnstone, when he returns. 

Agreed. There was a 40 yard ball that McTominay pinged to, I think it was Tierney. He has talent. But yeah, i'd move him beside Jack and give McTominay more freedom to roam when we're in possession. He's great at carrying the ball forward.

Bit disappointed to be honest as after proffering screeds of ruminations on your tactical omniscience I’d hoped at least for a bit more objectivity following last night.  If Scotland had served up last night’s performance with 4 at the back there would have been an avalanche of diatribes from here to the next round of fixtures.     

 

At best that performance can be excused because it’s the 3^rd away trip in a week but to suggest it’s some way a step forward is blinkered in exactly the same way anyone who defended 4 at the back would be accused of being. 

End of the day a Pot 4 side, who’ve now kept 2 clean sheets in 14 (both vs us) and lost 7 out of 13, played the same formation as us last night and, even missing two of their main players, were better at it than us.  One of their CB’s looked like a raffle winner and SOD had the run of their left back but we persisted in going down our left despite them being far stronger down there. 

 

Despite their manager being let go for pish results he managed to do a number on us again with Nacho looking like Pirlo in the gap between our lines again and continually managed to pick out their right back again who spent most of the game in our half again.  Their strikers then played in the gap between our defence and midfield with Zahavi having a ten minute spell of being allowed to take potshots despite everyone knowing he’s lethal.  Having three, four, five or six at the back makes no difference if the midfield in front don’t protect them. 

 

For all the corners; all the possession; all the huffing and puffing around their box we could easily have conceded four last night.  There was the chance straight after half time that just got a nick of McTominay’s arse; Zahavi clear through when SOD came from RWB to LB to get a block in when we were all over the place; the goal where the gap between SOD and McTominay was about 50 yards a minute before half time and; the fella who had 4 touches in the box and still got a shot away relatively unchallenged. 

 

It doesn’t mean I’d advocate throwing the baby out with the bathwater and from the Serbia game it shows how effective it could possibly be in the Euro’s so long as we have some sort of Plan B as a team as limited as Israel can exploit our weaknesses and; a better corner routine because those were painful last night.  

 

What it does show is there are a lot of questions around WC qualifiers as we’re typically pish around breaking down Pot 4 teams when we really need 6 points to even think about top 2 and that doesn’t seem to be changing – we are totally incapable of dragging teams out when they’re sat in and then get more and more desperate until the point we’re a piece of piss to counter attack.    

[Taylor1996]

3 hours ago, Tartan blood said:

I actually think both Christie and Fraser have that bit of magic that McFadden provided. Time will tell with them. You could argue Christie was man of the match in all of our last 3 games. Which is funny to think since Fraser probably would have started ahead of him if he'd been fit. Johnstone does have something special about him though, and still very young. He could be the long term replacement for Fraser.

 

McFadden's dribbling ability was often the difference between a draw and a loss. Christie and Fraser are good, but I don't think either could do what McFadden could.

Hepburn is one to keep an eye on. He'll be learning tons at Bayern Munich.

 

[bazmidd]

6 minutes ago, Taylor1996 said:

McFadden's dribbling ability was often the difference between a draw and a loss. Christie and Fraser are good, but I don't think either could do what McFadden could.

Hepburn is one to keep an eye on. He'll be learning tons at Bayern Munich.

 

Honestly think Mikey Johnston is a match winner in the making for us, just hope he fully recovers from his injury problems, the boys dribbling ability is special